Brake pads glazed?

[Krypptic]

How do you know if your brakes are glazed over or not?

Recently added hawk hps pads and I don't see an improvement. In fact I feel like I can't even trigger the abs anymore on threshold braking.

Any recommendations?

[Finnegan]

According to the description of these pads, they have a slightly higher friction (torque) output than ceramic pads. I've found the amount of brake torque with ceramic pads to be way outside my comfort level (as in they don't seem to "stop" like stock or Stoptech Street Performance pads). You're not going to get a really high torque pad for street use of course, but I like a little bite (progressive linear bite).

Based on the pad description, I'd kind of guess what you're feeling is what is similar to going from a track pad (say DTC-60s back to street pads). Seems like there's no bite, but it's relative. Is it really the case that you can't get ABS to engage if you really get on them, hard?

I'm sure you bedded them, so that's probably a moot point. Pedal is okay, no air in system? Probably another moot point.

I guess that covers the obvious stuff, maybe you like a more aggressive compound?

Let's see what others say, I could be missing something!

[Krypptic]

I guess I was exaggerating on the abs. I think you're spot on with regard to how much torque is needed and the lack of bite. I have a track day coming up, and will see how my braking zones are affected.

I did bed them and there is no air in the lines, so I hope that's it.

If they are glazed, what's the best way to correct it.

[Kgolf31]

I wouldn't be running those as track pads IMO.

If you arent confident in the pads, then you won't be confident in your car.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Krypptic

I guess I was exaggerating on the abs. I think you're spot on with regard to how much torque is needed and the lack of bite. I have a track day coming up, and will see how my braking zones are affected.

I did bed them and there is no air in the lines, so I hope that's it.

If they are glazed, what's the best way to correct it.

Glazed pads can be corrected with new pads. Sorry, that's the only "fix".

I kind of doubt that's the case, and this is just the lower friction co-efficient of the pads. I think you have to face it, you like more aggressive pads!

No way you should be running those pads on the track. (I agree with Kgolf.)

Per Zeckhausen

Hawk HPS high performance street pads have low dust, low noise, and low rotor wear. Slightly higher in friction level than Hawk Ceramic pads with a similar MOT of around 750 degrees F. Not recommended for track use, as their friction level falls off rapidly when the MOT is exceeded.

If you're running Rcomps, get some real track pads (or if you're really good at modulation with street tires). For street tires and up to intermediate use, Stoptech Street Performance are pretty good. I haven't roasted mine yet, but they now last about one track day. Running something like DTC-60s on street tires (Star Specs) requires a good degree of control and modulation--it's a very light touch given the greater torque, and pretty easy to lock up the tires/engage ABS. I've ran those my last two track days, and it really requires a change in approach vs. the street and it's really easy to lock them up. I haven't found a good "in between" pad yet that's more capable, but doesn't require Rcomps (not ready for that yet, but I do need a bit more capable pad).

[Krypptic]

These were meant to be a compromise. I had been using the stock pads at the track until now. I'm sure they won't last long.

I would love a more aggressive pad but I hear the squeal is really bad.

[Finnegan]

DTC-60s, HT-10s, Performance Friction--any kind of track pad will squeal like crazy.

But those ST Street Performance pads, they're quiet, less dusty than the stock pads, really good and progressive bite, and have a pretty wide operating temperature. Great street/track pad unless you're an advanced driver (I'm not).

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

If you're running Rcomps, get some real track pads (or if you're really good at modulation with street tires). For street tires and up to intermediate use, Stoptech Street Performance are pretty good. I haven't roasted mine yet, but they now last about one track day. Running something like DTC-60s on street tires (Star Specs) requires a good degree of control and modulation--it's a very light touch given the greater torque, and pretty easy to lock up the tires/engage ABS. I've ran those my last two track days, and it really requires a change in approach vs. the street and it's really easy to lock them up. I haven't found a good "in between" pad yet that's more capable, but doesn't require Rcomps (not ready for that yet, but I do need a bit more capable pad).

Interesting information.

I was planning on running Hawk HT-10s next year.

I have HP+ now, but I'm scared I'll fade them at Mid-Ohio (I ran in cold weather last time and they were burning up at the end of session).

PFC 08s look like a good candidate (a new combination of PFC 06s IIRC)

Originally Posted by Finnegan

DTC-60s, HT-10s, Performance Friction--any kind of track pad will squeal like crazy.

But those ST Street Performance pads, they're quiet, less dusty than the stock pads, really good and progressive bite, and have a pretty wide operating temperature. Great street/track pad unless you're an advanced driver (I'm not).

Avoid HP+ if you don't like squeal.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Interesting information.

I was planning on running Hawk HT-10s next year.

I have HP+ now, but I'm scared I'll fade them at Mid-Ohio (I ran in cold weather last time and they were burning up at the end of session).

PFC 08s look like a good candidate (a new combination of PFC 06s IIRC)

Avoid HP+ if you don't like squeal.

We need to start a new thread on pads for street tires that have a higher MOT but don't have as much torque as some of the track pads out there. SeanK ran HT-10s with his 255/265 set-up (or is it 265/265?). Star Specs, it was a huge PITA to modulate them. More like an on/off switch.

[MFGJR]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

We need to start a new thread on pads for street tires that have a higher MOT but don't have as much torque as some of the track pads out there. SeanK ran HT-10s with his 255/265 set-up (or is it 265/265?). Star Specs, it was a huge PITA to modulate them. More like an on/off switch.

I've been running PFC 06s (endurance pad) with 245/265 Star Specs at VIR, with no modulation problems whatsoever. I can't compare with other race pads, but vs. the stock pads they're definitely more progressive on engagement making it easy to be smooth in both heavy and light application--but require what I'd estimate to be 20% more pedal pressure in the big braking zones. Release is smooth and similar to the stock pads. Transition from stock to these pads was very easy.

The 06s are holding up very well, and aren't brutal to the rotors--three weekends on them and the pads are at about 60%. The tires go off long before the first sign of brake fade. Though cold performance isn't bad, they're obnoxious as hell in terms of noise so definitely not a compromise street/track pad.

A buddy who usually runs 01s on his M3 tried the 06s and was a little disappointed in their bite, but I think that's the difference between a sprint and an endurance pad.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by MFGJR

I've been running PFC 06s (endurance pad) with 245/265 Star Specs at VIR, with no modulation problems whatsoever. I can't compare with other race pads, but vs. the stock pads they're definitely more progressive on engagement making it easy to be smooth in both heavy and light application--but require what I'd estimate to be 20% more pedal pressure in the big braking zones. Release is smooth and similar to the stock pads. Transition from stock to these pads was very easy.

The 06s are holding up very well, and aren't brutal to the rotors--three weekends on them and the pads are at about 60%. The tires go off long before the first sign of brake fade. Though cold performance isn't bad, they're obnoxious as hell in terms of noise so definitely not a compromise street/track pad.

A buddy who usually runs 01s on his M3 tried the 06s and was a little disappointed in their bite, but I think that's the difference between a sprint and an endurance pad.

Thanks. I'm going to look into this pad a bit more. Sounds like it might be what I'm looking for.

OP, sorry for taking this thread a bit "off track" with the track pad discussion!

[seank]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

We need to start a new thread on pads for street tires that have a higher MOT but don't have as much torque as some of the track pads out there. SeanK ran HT-10s with his 255/265 set-up (or is it 265/265?). Star Specs, it was a huge PITA to modulate them. More like an on/off switch.

Pfc01's on 265 squares and 4 pot stoptechs and starspecs. SCARY combo. I never thought I would say, too much stopping power.

It reminded me how it is important for the whole to be cohesive.

I needed a lot faster car or stickier tires and then it may have worked. That is why it is important to not have more breaking power than the tires can handle.

[MFGJR]

Originally Posted by seank

Pfc01's on 265 squares and 4 pot stoptechs and starspecs. SCARY combo. I never thought I would say, too much stopping power.

It reminded me how it is important for the whole to be cohesive.

I needed a lot faster car or stickier tires and then it may have worked. That is why it is important to not have more breaking power than the tires can handle.

+1 on a balanced package, but doesn't ABS effectively limit braking power to what the tires can handle? Curious as to what you mean here... brakes over-taxing the tires to the point of them going off prematurely during a track session, perhaps?

[Finnegan]

Can't speak for Sean, but for me it's how easy it is to engage ABS, which makes threshold (or regressive) braking really difficult. There's very little between threshold and locking up the brakes, and between smooth engagement and them being an on/off switch. And I just barely have to touch the pedal, relative to my Stoptech pads, to get a lot of braking torque (force).

[Krypptic]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

OP, sorry for taking this thread a bit "off track" with the track pad discussion!

No apologies, I should have started this thread before I bought my pads.

On a side note, brakes are giving me a lot more feel now that they have a couple hundred miles on them. Wondering why that is, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Finnegan]

Cool. Glad they're working better. Now back to the "glazed" ham and turkey!