|
|
12-25-2011, 05:02 PM | #1 |
Private
5
Rep 69
Posts |
Ride height, stock vs. springs - unbalanced?
Hey guys,
Picked up a E92 M3 few weeks now. Coming from a 1er... It seems like most people here are doing springs strictly for look. Now, I am EDC equipped and that's unfortunate. It seems like my route is only coilovers at this point after reading several threads. I bring this case up because lowering the car, for looks...will disturb the height of the vehicle. Giving the vehicle such a raked look. Why are we all happy with this in the first place is what I am not understanding. If the height is measured front and rear at stock, it should be a balanced height. Is this something we have all over looked? Now, you may see that coil overs is right for me if I am concerned about the height and balance of the vehicle. But I just want to know if there is a better solution in correcting the wheel gap. As well as measuring the ride height correctly, front and rear. |
12-25-2011, 05:42 PM | #2 |
Major General
1571
Rep 8,076
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
Here is my theory. The OEM ride height leaves the car level which also creates a lot of wheel gap in the front. From my limited understanding of EU rules, BMW leaves at 12mm gap for snow chains. BMW leaves more room in the front because the front wheels turn.
Most spring manufacturers make springs for looks...read...reduce/eliminate wheel gap. In order to eliminate the wheel gap, most setups will lower the front more than the rear which creates the raked look. I've been told that BMWs in general actually handle better when level or even a tad higher in the front...which would look horrendous to the stance, tuck, stretch, flush crowd. My 330 used to understeer a bit, even with more front neg camber. I increased my front ride height by a 1/4" and it felt so much better.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
Appreciate
0
|
12-25-2011, 07:27 PM | #4 |
Major General
1571
Rep 8,076
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
Among the commonly known brands, I believe Dinan has the least aggressive drop. I think it is the only setup that does not create a rakish look at all...hence their unpopularity for their price
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2011, 10:43 AM | #5 |
Captain
15
Rep 751
Posts |
After-market springs should be designed to maintain the front/rear rake and balance. The car has little excess suspension travel, so you should be careful in lowering it much. Regarding raising the front relatively more than the rear, generally speaking this would have the effect of increasing rather than decreasing understeer, since it results in more weight and traction in the rear. It would also have an undesirable impact on aerodynamics, and I would not consider it. If you are interested in lowering just for looks, then do what looks right to you and forget the rest. If you are more performance oriented, then consider a good adjustable coilover suspension in which you have choices of spring rates, and can properly corner balance the car for the desired handling.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-28-2011, 01:18 AM | #6 |
IG: limited.slip
332
Rep 1,918
Posts |
Yes, a lot of people here put $200 springs on their $60k+ car and care only about looks. They have no understanding of strut/shock travel or of the car's daynamics. Putting lowering springs (or fancier "sleeve over" kits) on stock struts/shocks reduces (possibly eliminates?) an already very short stock travel.
It's well known (and has been for ages) that lowering springs on stock struts/shocks is a far from optimal setup yet everyone here does it and it's cool Sorry for the rant. If you want to lower your car get a set of quality coilovers which will have shortened struts/shocks designed to work with the shorter springs and a certain adjustment range. Information is not easy to get though. I'm still playing with my coilovers figuring out optimal height. I'd want to say that you want to keep the front/rear height ratio close to stock but then the car from the factory is tuned in to understeer. Granted a good alignment and bigger/better tires in the front do wonders; I also wonder if tweaking front/rear heights can help dial in more neutral handling. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-28-2011, 01:32 AM | #7 | |
DHS
203
Rep 4,010
Posts
Drives: 2023 M4, 2020 Land Rover
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Disneyland
|
Quote:
I will tell you if my M3 was out of warranty I would pick up a set of KW3s. I had them on my E46 M3 and they were awesome. Not the best setup, but by far the best bang for your buck. I ran about 20 different suspension setups from $12000 to $900 on my S2000, NSX, and Z4MC. I have also ran dozens of springs set ups. So I have a little experience with good and bad setups.
__________________
2020 Land Rover Velar Autobiography
2023 BMW M4 2016 X3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-28-2011, 07:59 AM | #8 |
Colonel
148
Rep 2,278
Posts |
How do coilovers void your warranty, except relating to the suspension? My warranty has been honored since installing coilovers.
__________________
2015 f80 M3, 2016 GT3
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-28-2011, 09:00 AM | #9 |
Captain
15
Rep 751
Posts |
It depends on your dealer. Some take a very unreasonable (yet legally arguable) position on after-market mods. It's a good thing to discuss up front.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 11:09 AM | #10 | |
Captain
69
Rep 957
Posts |
Quote:
I had a local performance shop do the install, and they talked me into lowering the rear quite a lot with front drop of less than 1/4" (almost none). Works VERY well for both track and city, actually - a bit more front suspension travel than stock, and more stable braking and acceleration. The downside is that the car does look a bit weird when it has 2 people in the back and full truck. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 11:20 AM | #11 | |
Major General
1571
Rep 8,076
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
Quote:
Which in my 330 puts the car about 1/8" lower in the front when taking measurements from the rocker panel.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 11:39 AM | #12 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
307
Rep 13,093
Posts
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
iTrader: (45)
Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00]
2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00] |
Springs will work just fine on your EDC equipped car. Lowering/performance springs have been manufactured for long enough now that the good companies know what they are doing and are not just haphazardly making cars a certain amount lower. If you are worried about travel issues, you could always install a set of older M3 bumpstops in the front. There are plenty of good threads regarding this already. Coilovers aren't necessarily the only option.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 04:15 PM | #13 |
First Lieutenant
22
Rep 351
Posts |
Has anyone had tire wear issues? I put H&R sports on my E36 325is and had trouble with the insides of the front and rear tires wearing out very prematurely.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 04:16 PM | #14 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
307
Rep 13,093
Posts
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
iTrader: (45)
Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00]
2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00] |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 04:30 PM | #15 | |
Major General
592
Rep 5,396
Posts |
Quote:
I chose to go with eibach for this reason.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 05:09 PM | #16 |
First Lieutenant
22
Rep 351
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 05:36 PM | #17 |
Major General
1571
Rep 8,076
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
No unless you drop it significantly more than what H&R or Eibach offers.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 10:41 PM | #18 | |
Commander-In-Chief
2122
Rep 8,924
Posts
Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
|
Quote:
__________________
Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 11:05 PM | #19 | |
DHS
203
Rep 4,010
Posts
Drives: 2023 M4, 2020 Land Rover
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Disneyland
|
Quote:
They had a laundry list of things that a really altered suspension would do. To tired to list.
__________________
2020 Land Rover Velar Autobiography
2023 BMW M4 2016 X3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2011, 11:07 PM | #20 |
DHS
203
Rep 4,010
Posts
Drives: 2023 M4, 2020 Land Rover
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Disneyland
|
Exactly this!
__________________
2020 Land Rover Velar Autobiography
2023 BMW M4 2016 X3 |
Appreciate
0
|
12-30-2011, 11:44 AM | #21 |
First Lieutenant
22
Rep 351
Posts |
Greg, your car looks great. So in 2 1/2 years you have not seen a change in tire wear after installing Dinan springs?
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-30-2011, 12:04 PM | #22 |
Commander-In-Chief
2122
Rep 8,924
Posts
Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
|
No change. Had alignment done initially and have not touched it since. I'm running 255 & 275/35s with 1/2" wider wheels than stock.
__________________
Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450 |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|