Alignment issue RF vs LF

[persian54]

There's something wrong with my Right front..... no matter how they set the alignment specs, the RF maxes out at -1.4 camber, while the Left Front can go up to -2.25 degrees (I have dinan camber plates and dinan springs). They even reset the machine and re-calibrated it.
Dinan install was done by a BMW Master Tech, as well as the alignment. He has a fellow tech check the work and reported no issues there...

He said I should try to take it to a different shop and see what happens on their machine (didn't charge me obviously)
He thinks maybe their machine is defected or something...

This was on a dealer's alignment machine

Any input is appreciated..

Rear was easily set to -2.1 degrees..


I'll be taking it to a shop sometime next week as I won't have time before this weekend Streets of Willow
O well, this will be my last track event on these tires anyways, so no real harm can be done yeah?
Front thread is about 4/32, rear is around 5/32

[JAJ]

Did they check the ride heights and tire pressures on both sides? It's a big difference in camber, but if the chassis isn't sitting perfectly level (ie - closer to the ground on one side than the other) then it will affect the adjustment range.

It's unlikely that this is the cause because it would take a 1cm difference in ride height (large enough to be noticeable) to explain the camber inconsistency.

Let's hope it's something else!

Originally Posted by persian54

There's something wrong with my Right front..... no matter how they set the alignment specs, the RF maxes out at -1.4 camber, while the Left Front can go up to -2.25 degrees (I have dinan camber plates and dinan springs). They even reset the machine and re-calibrated it.
Dinan install was done by a BMW Master Tech, as well as the alignment. He has a fellow tech check the work and reported no issues there...

He said I should try to take it to a different shop and see what happens on their machine (didn't charge me obviously)
He thinks maybe their machine is defected or something...

This was on a dealer's alignment machine

Any input is appreciated..

Rear was easily set to -2.1 degrees..


I'll be taking it to a shop sometime next week as I won't have time before this weekend Streets of Willow
O well, this will be my last track event on these tires anyways, so no real harm can be done yeah?
Front thread is about 4/32, rear is around 5/32

[aus]

I had similar problems with my 2008 car. The coilovers/camber plates on the right would not go less than -2, which was about what I wanted anyway (I wanted -1.75-1.8). I watched the guy put metal shims under each wheel and use a long balance to make sure it was all level. He then measured to make sure the ride height's were the same too.
With the new car, everything lines up fine. weird.

[STALKER]

Hit anything lately? Nothing bent?
My car is a bit touchy with camber also.

[persian54]

no idea on the tire pressures

But he did say that the car didn't sit perfectly balanced on the rack...

He wants me to try it out on a different alignment machine to see what's up

He also said that he didn't visually notice anything bent/broken, nor have I hit anything recently. I didn't even go off track these past couple of sessions... and when I went off before it was into smooth dirt, nothing hard or unbalanced.

I drove the car, and it's.....different.

I doesn't seem to want to go straight, leans to the left a bit

I have 18in TEs coming in next week, so I planned on tracking with my 19s on sunday

I was going to get an alignment today or tomorrow at a local shop but...
Should I:
A) track on sunday, and just ignore the current alignment (I don't care about getting best lap times, my 19in tires are toast and i could care less about them wearing unevenly, they're dead anyways) so that I can get an alignment with my 18in SuperLaps

B) Just get alignment today/tomorrow with my OEM 19s so that I have the car alignment done for Sunday, and just leave the alignment as is even after I put my 18in SLs

Paying for an alignment today/tomorrow and another one next week after I put my SLs on is out of the question, it'll be a complete waste of $

Other than poor tire wear, can there be any other damage to my car if I get an alignment after the track?

I know maybe people who say you shouldn't even align the car for 2 weeks or something after you change your springs... but I always found this to be useless..

Thank you for your inputs

[persian54]

or option C, use the Z4 at the track..

[montreal red]

Originally Posted by persian54

or option C, use the Z4 at the track..

[persian54]

Originally Posted by montreal red

Yeah I think I'll do that
I was just excited to finally be able to track with the Dinan suspension and Akra evo

o well

[Malek@MRF]

PM'd you back bro.

[PrimeBMW]

My 2011 ZCP (manufactured May, 2010) was -0.8 RF and -1.6 LF. So I think it just comes from the factory like this at times. My mechanic claims the factory alignment can be all over the board. So I pulled the right pin and only got -1.1 RF. After that result I did not pull the left. About a month ago I purchased the Ground Control adjustable camber plates and set both fronts at -2.2

BTW I could get -3.0+ if wanted with the GC camber plates

[JM3]

Originally Posted by persian54

There's something wrong with my Right front..... no matter how they set the alignment specs, the RF maxes out at -1.4 camber, while the Left Front can go up to -2.25 degrees (I have dinan camber plates and dinan springs). They even reset the machine and re-calibrated it.

This is a difference of 0.85 degrees, which is WAY out of the range of normal L-R difference.

I would wonder if the camber spacer blocks on the top of the struts are bolted in the correct orientation. They can be bolted 3 different ways.

If you can post pics, looking straight down at the top of the front strut, possibly myself or perhaps someone else can let you know.

Originally Posted by persian54

He said I should try to take it to a different shop and see what happens on their machine (didn't charge me obviously)
He thinks maybe their machine is defected or something...

This is actually a good policy, and excellent refreshing advice. Most techs believe their alignment machine is some kind of oracle, but they are VERY often bumped and inaccurate.


Jay

[rzm3]

Without seeing the install, I really have no idea. Were the plates placed on correctly? Do you have any alignment print outs from before the install?

[persian54]

Alignment prior to install, this is a couple months ago when I was 100% stock:



After he reset the machine and reccaliberate it etc, it lost all the previous settings, so he wasn't able to give me a printout of the current alignment, but he did text me while he was doing the alignment (prior to re-cal) and that's how I knew the camber numbers.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by JM3

This is a difference of 0.85 degrees, which is WAY out of the range of normal L-R difference.

I would wonder if the camber spacer blocks on the top of the struts are bolted in the correct orientation. They can be bolted 3 different ways.

If you can post pics, looking straight down at the top of the front strut, possibly myself or perhaps someone else can let you know.

This is actually a good policy, and excellent refreshing advice. Most techs believe their alignment machine is some kind of oracle, but they are VERY often bumped and inaccurate.


Jay

Well, I did get the install guide for both the springs and the plates from Dinan, and it has a couple of pictures.

But how can I take a picture to post? everything seems pretty covered up... with the EDC module thing and all.. I tried removing it, but i didn't want to force it off, so I stopped touching it after it didn't want to come off

[JM3]

Originally Posted by persian54

Well, I did get the install guide for both the springs and the plates from Dinan, and it has a couple of pictures.

But how can I take a picture to post? everything seems pretty covered up... with the EDC module thing and all.. I tried removing it, but i didn't want to force it off, so I stopped touching it after it didn't want to come off

Pry the plastic surround cap up, and slide it down the wire. Then peel the rubber back and take a picture of the gap on the motor side.

If that is the "before" alignment sheet, showing no frame damage or bent parts, then I am quite sure the Dinan "offset spacer blocks" (can't really call them camber plates) are installed incorrectly.

[persian54]

I'm not 100% satisfied with my alignment, but it is the best we could get...
Front Left Front Right
-2.3 Camber -2.5 Camber
-0.01 Toe 0.00 Toe

Rear Left Rear Right
-2.0 Camber -2.0 Camber
.13 Toe .13 Toe

Total rear toe: .26
Thrust Angel 0.00

This is what I remember from the top of my head.
I wanted to get more neg camber out of the Left Front, and I wanted the Toe to be 0.00, but we couldn't get it to go. Was on there fiddling with it for over an hour. But -0.01 shouldn't be that bad right...?
Also, these figures are in degrees.

And this is with the gas tank half full, and with me in the driver's seat holding the steering wheel straight



I have to give a huge thank you to Malek for helping fix what was wrong with the camber.

I'm not very technical, so I'll do my best, but please chime in Malek:

(left is driver, right is passenger)

The left side shock was 1/8th of an inch off from the right side, so Malek was able to 'pull' (?) the shock, and was able to use the measuring tape to make both sides equal

Malek also tightened the bolts...seems my tech never torqued them all down X.x....

Also Malek, we didn't check this, but the strut bar bolts were also not tight.

I had a different friend at a different location torque them to factory specs and loctite them
I heard a metal on metal noise from the front, and it seems this was the cause.
(noise is now gone)

All in all... I'm happy that my car drives in a straight line again.
I'm excited for the next track day, and I really hope everything is all good to go


I have always told myself to never mess with suspension, and I end up messing with the suspension on ALL of my cars....and EVERY time something goes wrong
Maybe I should listen to what my Medical Doctor says: "the enemy of good is better"


But now I just want to go with a full coilover set up X.x.X.x.X

[JAJ]

I'm glad you got it sorted finally!

[persian54]

Originally Posted by JAJ

I'm glad you got it sorted finally!

Thank you

[Malek@MRF]

Glad I was able to help you out and sort through your issues.

I'm sorry that you had to deal with a bad installation and went through circles trying to figure it out.

For those wondering why his alignment settings were always completely off from one another, the answer is the INSTALLATION. I think I have been saying this a lot over the years, but the quality of work being done on the car is very important even if it seems like the person knows what they are doing and taking care.

There are many procedures that need to be done in order to assure a proper install and I can't even count how many times and how often I see these type of issues.

Shayan, that is strange that the last BMW tech even loosened the strut bar bolts as its not necessary at all. Glad you checked all the neighboring bolts to make sure everything is tight to factory specifications.

If there is anything else I could help you with, let me know.

-Malek

[persian54]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

If there is anything else I could help you with, let me know.

-Malek

Same to you my friend . Though I'm not sure how I could help you when it comes to anything car related

[JAJ]

What is a "strut bar"? Is it one of the lower control arms or is it part of the sway bar linkage?

Just curious about the terminology.

Also, if one strut was different by 1/8" from the other, does that mean it wasn't fully seated in the socket in the steering knuckle?

[persian54]

Originally Posted by JAJ

What is a "strut bar"? Is it one of the lower control arms or is it part of the sway bar linkage?

Just curious about the terminology.

Also, if one strut was different by 1/8" from the other, does that mean it wasn't fully seated in the socket in the steering knuckle?

The two silver bolts on the far left.

Can't answer the other question unfortunately..Malek?