Transitioning from b58 to s65 (m240-e92 m3)

[lukeryanbrown]

I have an f23 m240i that I am planning to sell. I have been very satisfied with the b58 and it has shown to me how great it is. I was initially planning to save for an m340i after selling. But after noticing that I shouldn’t have to save more money if I get into an e92 m3, I’ve been highly considerate of one, as they have always been one of my favorite cars. I would be looking at ones that have between 65-100k miles. I am prepared to find one with RB’s and TA’s done or to spend according to how much I would have to pay for that and the rest of the preventative maintenance. I’m more concerned on the transition in driving experience. I understand the s65 won’t let me down and that it is an amazing expirience to drive, but will it be a difficult switch or less enjoyable to drive? My 240 is an xdrive, meaning that switching to a v8 rwd m3 is going to be a genuine shift. I just worry that it will feel like a downgrade of a car rather than an improvement in an ultimate driving expirience. I’m not worried about it being more physically difficult to drive either, but purely enjoyment. If anyone has had a similar transition or owns or have owned an e9x m3, any words of advice or analysis would be greatly appreciated!

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by lukeryanbrown

I have an f23 m240i that I am planning to sell. I have been very satisfied with the b58 and it has shown to me how great it is. I was initially planning to save for an m340i after selling. But after noticing that I shouldn’t have to save more money if I get into an e92 m3, I’ve been highly considerate of one, as they have always been one of my favorite cars. I would be looking at ones that have between 65-100k miles. I am prepared to find one with RB’s and TA’s done or to spend according to how much I would have to pay for that and the rest of the preventative maintenance. I’m more concerned on the transition in driving experience. I understand the s65 won’t let me down and that it is an amazing expirience to drive, but will it be a difficult switch or less enjoyable to drive? My 240 is an xdrive, meaning that switching to a v8 rwd m3 is going to be a genuine shift. I just worry that it will feel like a downgrade of a car rather than an improvement in an ultimate driving expirience. I’m not worried about it being more physically difficult to drive either, but purely enjoyment. If anyone has had a similar transition or owns or have owned an e9x m3, any words of advice or analysis would be greatly appreciated!

Have you driven one?

[Mr.Zisky]

So the deal with S65 is that it will most likely feel like a downgrade at first because it's really slow and torqueless low-down but I would never ever "upgrade" it to B58 (or any other BMW engine for that matter) because it's the first and only car that I've driven that scream "soul" to me. That engine is just amazing, it has a character. Yes, it's slow, yes, there are absolutely many cars that drive better, but I didn't find a car yet that would be so unique. I've driven my friends Cayman GT4 recently and while it handles better than my E9x M3 and it definitely felt faster (even tho on paper is not) so overall it was a better car - if he offered me to swap, I would not do it. After getting S65 most cars feel "flat" to me. So long story short. It takes a specific kind of person to enjoy S65. If you are looking for a character and soul you'll find it. If you are looking for raw numbers and acceleration you may be disappointed. But also - the best thing you can do is to just get one for a test drive.

[CamasM3e93]

Completely different experiences, neither a disappointment in contrast with the other. The b58 is a smooth, capable and efficient 6 that exudes refinement. Driving it feels like the pinnacle of 20 years of engineering and it is arguably exactly that. The S65, especially when bracketed with mods on the ins and outs, is coarse, riotous, exhilarating and at times hilarious. I have both in the garage and I have a hard time envisioning a next step from either that doesn’t leave me penniless or disappointed. By all means, make the jump.

[lukeryanbrown]

Mr.Zisky your comment has convinced me to do it I think. Soul is exactly what I’m looking for and what has drawn me to the car initially. While I have loved the b58’s performance I never felt I “bonded” with the car or formed an attachment to it. When I was initially looking at m340i’s I became concerned the case would be the same with such a similar car. I’m not worried about the torque, I just want to have the most fun experience I can and I think the s65 will do that for me.

[Soden82]

What swayed me from an F series car (M235i) to the E chassis is the change from electronic steering to hydraulic steering.

The M3 in my mind is the pinnacle of bmw hydraulic steering. It is amazingly heavy and precise and you feel so much more of the road.

Both cars are a great complement to one another, but the M3 makes me smile I a different way than the F series cars did.

I also generally get more love from paserbyers or other bmw and German car drivers from being in the M3 versus the 2 series. I think it exudes more happiness driving it and makes people happy seeing it around.

[fs34]

The S65 will disappoint you at lower rpm’s, but “character” is there a plenty.

This is a 60-120mph car that loves track time. It’s not a streetlight warrior. Get past that and e9x m3 wins all day and night.

[DanMpower]

I still don't get the "low torque" slow around town comments. In my opinion, the S65 is one of the most responsive engines around town if driven correctly. Yes, it's a high-revving engine but the torque curve is flat and linear, the gearing works great with the powerband. If you have a DCT, go to manual mode and take control of your own gears. The computer tends to upshift to the highest gear which makes for a lazy and slow-feeling car. Same with 6MT, know your engine's sweet spot and know which gear to be in. This car feels way faster around town compared to my FL5 Type R which on paper makes more peak torque.

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by fs34

The S65 will disappoint you at lower rpm’s, but “character” is there a plenty.

This is a 60-120mph car that loves track time. It’s not a streetlight warrior. Get past that and e9x m3 wins all day and night.

Over a decade ago the E92 M3 was putting down 0-60 in 3.9 seconds in magazine tests. That was insanely quick then for a RWD car and still holds up pretty well today.

[fs34]

Drive a turbo, easily more early torque than the s65. Just the way it is.

[BimmerMan33]

You have to be patient with S65, wind out the motor to feel the power & sound.
Big difference in driving feel compared to turbo motor.
Go drive an e92 M3 a couple times, drive one with MT & one with DCT.
MT doesn’t like to be hurried when shifting, so again you have to be patient, be gentle & deliberate with your shifting & rev match. E92 S65 makes you work & keeps you engaged for the experience & that’s unique & fun in its own way.. If you feel that’s a chore, then go DCT.
Also, S65 generally does not like being driven in too much traffic, it loves the open road so you could rev it out..
S65 is definitely very different than B58, better or worse is subjective based on who you are & want you prefer!

[TechE]

It's all been said already, but I moved from an N55 135i to my M3. The turbo'd engines are absolutely better for commuting and daily use. Much more satisfying and easier to drive down low with their torque. But, nothing compares to revving out the S65, and the N/A ITB response. There is literally no other (factory) car with that engine, and never will be. Consider that, and handling for non-M's isn't even in the same ballpark as them. Completely different road feel.

[lukeryanbrown]

Originally Posted by TechE

It's all been said already, but I moved from an N55 135i to my M3. The turbo'd engines are absolutely better for commuting and daily use. Much more satisfying and easier to drive down low with their torque. But, nothing compares to revving out the S65, and the N/A ITB response. There is literally no other (factory) car with that engine, and never will be. Consider that, and handling for non-M's isn't even in the same ballpark as them. Completely different road feel.

When you say that considering that the handling for non m’s isn’t in the same ballpark and the m3 has a completely different road feel could you elaborate? I understand the e9x have hydraulic steering and I’m planning on driving one to feel but what have you noticed? Just that you feel the road more profoundly?

[MineralWhiteF80]

the main reason why you might feel the e9x m3 is a downgrade from the M240 is by sitting in the more dated interior and the lack of good infotainment. The M240i feels so much newer and the infotainment is much better. The e9x feels dated until you start adding aftermarket CarPlay capability to the iDrive screen, and then it's pretty damn acceptable unless you want more driver assistance features and cameras.

I've beat the absolute crap out of both the M240i and E9x M3 on a race track and autocross track, and I can tell you the E92 is so much more exciting to drive. It has more raw, analog feelings through the controls, the engine sounds awesome, and the instant throttle response from the engine is hard to beat. The M240 feels muted, numb, and soft in every way comparatively. The M240 can easily be made faster than the e9x, and both can do awesome on a race track, but how they feel while doing it is more important to me.

The e9x M3 is just more exciting from a "driver's car" perspective. The M240 is an all around better daily driver, but just no where near as fun.

[M3SQRD]

I currently own two e92 M3s and a f22 m240ix. I’ve installed the exact same suspension, MCS 2WR, on both cars. The m240ix is faster in a straight line but the braking and handling, even with the same suspensions, the e92 M feels far superior. A large part of that is the hydraulic steering but it’s also the sound (Akra Evo + Karbonius CF plenum and elbow) that’s just insane at 8600 rpm (stage 2 tune with raised redline). I also have a 3.62 FD DCT LSD on one of the e92s and it makes a huge difference which is about three car lengths in the 1/4 mile. The m240ix is a great car but it doesn’t feel special. It’s hard to explain if you haven’t driven one. If it’s primary purpose is to be a DD, I’d stick with the m240i; however, if it’s for weekend drives on windy roads or in the mountains, in addition to DD’ing, the e92 is the way to go. I also have an f82 and I’m still impressed by the e92s every time I drive them.

[mcarhopeful]

Coming from B58 i'd say skip the E9X platform. Would recommend the F8X if anything.

[omgzirra_exe]

S65 is great if you enjoy driving on weekends and can accept that your mother of 2 in a prius is going to 0-60 your ass at every traffic light while it takes you 10 billion years to get to 60 with out going 80% on your throttle input.

personally i only find the S65 great for street driving if you have a blower.

NA, id either commit to tracking on weekends 4/5 a year... and lots of weekend canyon carving.

Dog shit car otherwise imo... better off with a F8X M3 for daily driving and weekend fun if needed.

I've had my car since 2019 and dropped more money than i need to and i still wish i had a car with a turbo. (maybe ill K24 Turbo swap the M3 and have fun at 10K rpms )

I think the E9X makes a GREAT 3rd car.. meaning the car you drive once or twice a month.

woopty doo we make like 370 rwhp with 99 ftlbs of torque and its a V8 that revs to 8.5k WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO

and quiet honestly if i was in your position id get rid of an ugly 2 series also so there's that, unless its a M2. M2s are cool.

e9X m3 are fucking old also. so don't expect much in terms of creature comforts and.... quality.

[Brandoch]

When did 0-60 in 4.2 seconds become slow? This is getting so ridiculous now a days. The Lamborghini Countach is slower. The amount of comments saying that the E9x M3 is slow just shows how out of touch people really are.

If driving on the streets, what point is there of having infinite power? The E36 M3 is enough power to get the general public into a lot of trouble.

Drive the car, feel the car, connect with the car.
Numbers don't mean anything without context. You can't get the true context without taking it off of public roads. Life isn't a video game.

[Redd]

I do hill runs with the E92 M3 every Sunday. Most days I get left behind by a competently driven GTI, A45 or Civic Type-R and I consider myself a competent driver. If speed is the only raison d'etre I'd say you might be happier with the 240i or 340i.

But as many have said, the M3 feels more special to drive. It's an event just to take the car to the grocery store. It's the car you want to take the longer route home just to drive it more. It's the car most people upgrade to other cars - including F8x M3/M4 - and then downgrade back down to the E9x M3. Most of this is due to the S65 V8. It's just a gem, it gets under your skin.

Interior wise, while the E9x platform is aging and lacks some of the latest tech, the material quality is far better than the F-gen cars. The first time I sat in a M340i I had to double check I wasn't in a Toyota, the plastics looked and felt so cheap.

[MineralWhiteF80]

Originally Posted by Redd

...the M3 feels more special to drive. It's the car you want to take the longer route home just to drive it more. It's the car most people upgrade to other cars - including F8x M3/M4 - and then downgrade back down to the E9x M3.

FACTS FACTS FACTS!!!!

After flip-flopping back and forth between two E9x M3 chassis and two F8x M3/M4 chassis, I've realized that I MUCH prefer the E9x chassis for fun and excitement and the F8x chassis for 'fast and boring' 580 whp daily driver duties with good infotainment/technology.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

When did 0-60 in 4.2 seconds become slow? This is getting so ridiculous now a days. The Lamborghini Countach is slower. The amount of comments saying that the E9x M3 is slow just shows how out of touch people really are.

If driving on the streets, what point is there of having infinite power? The E36 M3 is enough power to get the general public into a lot of trouble.

Drive the car, feel the car, connect with the car.
Numbers don't mean anything without context. You can't get the true context without taking it off of public roads. Life isn't a video game.

I agree with all of your comments. All I said was the f22 m240ix is faster in a straight line. Did not say the e92 is slow. My e92 with 3.62 FD diff almost hangs with the m240ix.

I find the e92 to be more engaging and thrilling. It has a true exotic sound that no exhaust can make a m240i sound close to an e92 (although it sounds way better than my f82).

The last M that you could truly enjoy on the street was the e46 M3. Any newer generation you could end up in jail!

[omgzirra_exe]

lets be real, most of us who track our e9x m3 found more enjoyment once we removed 400lbs from the car.

that's my literally problem with the e9x m3. and that's why i say this car is better off with a blower for street driving. cause the prius that rides my ass from 0-60 bouta get some dog piss 91 oct smell in their face.

note i live in OC, were every other car is a prius or a tesla.