M2 "loner"

[mynameisplayer]

M3 went in for visual inspection, got a M2 loan. Glad I spent the coin on a M3! Biggest difference I noticed (and there's heaps...) was no confidence in the brakes. It will stop, but pedal is nothing like my car. Who are these journos liking up the M2 over a M3?!

[MPoweRo]

Give us more. Plenty has been written but not from an Australian perspective.

[domino_z]

admittedly the journos have done a complete 180 on the M3/4 since the CP was released, it has fixed pretty much everything they initially complained about this platform

imo a big part of the M2 journo rave is the underdog honey dick - when you go into a car off the bat knowing its what 30k cheaper than the brands flagship hero, you're immediately elevating your experience psychologically beyond the reality - think hot hatches, really most are crap, but everyone loves them and forgives the short comings because they're cheap and on the right road in the right weather with the stars all aligned pointing to the baby jesus manger, they might hang with a supercar for a couple back to back corners

i too have driven M2 and M3 back to back - i thought the dampening was crap (more crap than M3/4), the engine ran out of puff about 1500 rpm shy of redline, nor did the engine feel anymore special than a regular 235i, and nothing like a bespoke M product, the interior with 220D seats was low rent, and overall it didn't hold a candle to how special my E46 with that S54 was despite the constant comparisons

on the plus side it is a better sized car for tackling hill runs, that slightly narrower body just let's you place the car more easily on the road, and it does have the traditional inline 6 sound.

with the next generation 1/2 series going fwd, i'm not sure where that leaves an M2 replacement, maybe a haldex awd. when/if the M2 CS with the S55 arrives, that will be the car worth raving about

[drgmt]

I think saying most hot hatches are crap is a little harsh.

I’ve driven a tuned A45 and RS3 and the performance at that price point is phenomenal. The A45 is particularly capable and I tried to unseat it in the wet on some very challenging wet roads and the bloody thing was rock solid. Brakes were actually superior to my M3.

Their biggest limitation is the haldex system. However an AWD system like the new E63 and M5 with a potential for true rear wheel bias would make these hatches perfect.

Traction and wet weather safety is the biggest let down of a rear wheel drive car like ours.

[MPoweRo]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Traction and wet weather safety is the biggest let down of a rear wheel drive car like ours.

That's the appeal to me of RWD. Not the potential safety deficit, but the challenge of driving well in low grip conditions.

[drgmt]

Agree but the margin of error is small on very difficult roads. Especially in the wet

[mynameisplayer]

I've always had it against small BMs with the curvy dash being a bit weird for me, but with SO interior in my car I think it's a bit more special. The M2 was just bland. I get it, the appeal for journos was no M buttons, simple controls letting them think it's all about the driving experience. But like the Clarkson review of the E60 M5 (takes the piss out of the "complexity" of the car setup) once you press M for your own setup, it's miles in front of the M2. For the $20kish difference, man up and get an M3!

[drgmt]

The M2 needs a tune. But the interior is very average and doesn’t feel M special.

[michaelalex17]

Even if you hated it I guarantee it was better than the loaner cars I have gotten haha. I wish my dealer had M2 loaners

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by drgmt

I think saying most hot hatches are crap is a little harsh.

I’ve driven a tuned A45 and RS3 and the performance at that price point is phenomenal. The A45 is particularly capable and I tried to unseat it in the wet on some very challenging wet roads and the bloody thing was rock solid. Brakes were actually superior to my M3.

Their biggest limitation is the haldex system. However an AWD system like the new E63 and M5 with a potential for true rear wheel bias would make these hatches perfect.

Traction and wet weather safety is the biggest let down of a rear wheel drive car like ours.

i've owned both cla45 and rs3 - the cla45 was crap, harsh suspension, harsher sounding engine, poor build quality and interior trim, rock hard seats, too much front end push (though i believe the facelift with the front lsd sorts this), i sold it within a few weeks for an s3 it was that bad

rs3 survived longer primarily because of the engine, but the chassis just wasn't there and hit a wall at around 6/10ths, and i went through 2 sets of front brakes within 10k because they warped due to overheating - audi runs the same discs left vs right so the cooling vanes dont work on one side, then add the fact it's constantly grabbing the front inside wheel even with traction off to keep the front end in check

i did have fun with it though while i had it, the engine sound just elevates the experience so high you overlook the chassis and brakes, but after a decent 2 day tas run i was over it

i agree re traction, having come from a string of fwd biased awd small dailys, it took me a while to get into the groove with the m3, i even initially contemplated buying another rs3 early on, but whereas the fwd haldex cars get worse at speed, the f80 just gets better - biggest thing i've done for traction is switch the ps4s, in the wet i have zero issues with grip

i've also built a big power r35 gtr and evo x from engine to trans, so tuning haldex awd cars with their flawed drivetrain was never going to be something i was interested in, but i am impressed with how quick in a straight line those rs3's, even golf r can get. Apart from a tyre swap and some minor bolt ons, that's as far as i'd take a euro car

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by domino_z

i've owned both cla45 and rs3 - the cla45 was crap, harsh suspension, harsher sounding engine, poor build quality and interior trim, rock hard seats, too much front end push (though i believe the facelift with the front lsd sorts this), i sold it within a few weeks for an s3 it was that bad

rs3 survived longer primarily because of the engine, but the chassis just wasn't there and hit a wall at around 6/10ths, and i went through 2 sets of front brakes within 10k because they warped due to overheating - audi runs the same discs left vs right so the cooling vanes dont work on one side, then add the fact it's constantly grabbing the front inside wheel even with traction off to keep the front end in check

i did have fun with it though while i had it, the engine sound just elevates the experience so high you overlook the chassis and brakes, but after a decent 2 day tas run i was over it

i agree re traction, having come from a string of fwd biased awd small dailys, it took me a while to get into the groove with the m3, i even initially contemplated buying another rs3 early on, but whereas the fwd haldex cars get worse at speed, the f80 just gets better - biggest thing i've done for traction is switch the ps4s, in the wet i have zero issues with grip

i've also built a big power r35 gtr and evo x from engine to trans, so tuning haldex awd cars with their flawed drivetrain was never going to be something i was interested in, but i am impressed with how quick in a straight line those rs3's, even golf r can get. Apart from a tyre swap and some minor bolt ons, that's as far as i'd take a euro car

Ultimately - the hot hatches take a point and shoot approach to fun. Straight line launch control is where they excel.

The A45 hot hatch was great and with the front mechanical diff was about as close as a FWD biased car could get to being "fun". It really didn't understeer anywhere near as much as an RS3. In any case it's a totally different driving style needed to our cars.

Renntech stage 1 map and cold air intake on an A45 - that's 3.5 sec to 100km per hour - and this is plane insane for 80K. The FL model also had slightly more compliant suspension than the first generation and so more liveable on a daily basis.

[Dave-A]

Originally Posted by mynameisplayer

M3 went in for visual inspection, got a M2 loan. Glad I spent the coin on a M3! Biggest difference I noticed (and there's heaps...) was no confidence in the brakes. It will stop, but pedal is nothing like my car. Who are these journos liking up the M2 over a M3?!

You do realize the M2 and M3/4 have the same brakes? Everything from the discs, pads, calipers, hardware and master cylinder is shared...

[mynameisplayer]

But the feel so completely different. I went into a favorite twisty bit and thought I was going to bin it. It brakes, eventually - you just have to push the pedal a lot more. The M2 was 2.5K old, my car now 8K

[Dave-A]

Originally Posted by mynameisplayer

But the feel so completely different. I went into a favorite twisty bit and thought I was going to bin it. It brakes, eventually - you just have to push the pedal a lot more. The M2 was 2.5K old, my car now 8K

Maybe the loan car wasn't particularly well run in? My old M2 was far more confidence inspiring under brakes (and on the throttle) than our new M3 (Competition).

[thebatman]

Originally Posted by mynameisplayer

I've always had it against small BMs with the curvy dash being a bit weird for me, but with SO interior in my car I think it's a bit more special. The M2 was just bland. I get it, the appeal for journos was no M buttons, simple controls letting them think it's all about the driving experience. But like the Clarkson review of the E60 M5 (takes the piss out of the "complexity" of the car setup) once you press M for your own setup, it's miles in front of the M2. For the $20kish difference, man up and get an M3!

Guys driving the M5 would be sayin the same thing about you....