Track Tyre - Analysis on Best R Compound

[Race82]

Ive spent a fair bit of time researching the best tyre options, as I want to run a R compound for track use that are relatively “in spec” with factory percentages, to avoid DSC and electronic nanny’s.

I’ve found a few combos that work, and many more that don’t.

My M4 is a 2014 M4, NON CP, DCT, EDC, Stock Steel Brakes, MPE, M Performance HAS, Full M Perf Body Kit, M Perf Alcantara Steering Wheel.

I have Fall Line Toe & Camber Kits, which I use from time to time and I always run Pagid RS29 pads in stock calipers (steel brakes) for the track only. So it’s basically stock. No engine mods at all.

I have both the OEM 19” 437M and 20” 666M for street use, as well as some TSW Bathurst 19” 9.5 x 10.5 for the track.

I don’t love the TSW’s tbh, as they aren’t hub centric and are the wrong offsets (305 MPSC2 sticks out around 5mm from rear guard), so I am happy to get new track wheels for the right tyre set up.

As a members have already pointed out in other threads, there’s limited choice to get something that matches the stock ratios.

I’m mainly interested in Diameter, Width and Rev/Mile ratios as the stock tyres, in order to retain DSC/EDC etc so as to limit the electronic nanny’s etc kicking in. Trying to say within 1-2% max on each of the 3 metrics; Diameter 102%, Width 93.5%, Revs/Mile 102%

See Below: Stock

I run Stock Wheel & PSS Tyres for daily use. Min Load on front is 92 and Rear is 99 according to BMW plaque on the inside of the door.

Having run 275/285 & 305 in the rear, My ideal set up for track use is a 265/35/19 Front & 305/30/19 Rear (maybe a 295, haven’t run this as yet)

Ive run 265/30/19 & 305/30/19 ContiExtremeSport (prior to this research) and they were terrible.

I’m running 255/25/19 and 305/30/19 MPSC2 at present, which are way better than the stock PSS especially in terms of traction in the rear, however the DSC kicks in way too much, and some under-steer from the front. Also the % are out (see below) and they aren’t a true R spec tyre, in my opinion.

I have also run 265/35/19 & 285/35/19 MPSC2 which were in spec and provides better turn in, but I don’t seem to get anywhere near enough grip in the rear compared to the 305.

See Below: MPSC2

I feel the MPSC2 is a bit of a street/track compromise, and I already have PSS on 666M for street use, so my dilemma is trying to find a true R spec tyre that I can still drive to/from the track in.

So, my ideal setup is R888R 305/265/30 or 295/265/30 below. However the load for front tyre is well below Load Specs by 3 points 89 v 92 (circa 50kg at each corner) which not only is illegal to use on street in Australia (insurance issues if accident/defect by police etc) but it may also could cause some complications at the track if the weight causes the tyre to overheat and blow.

Obviously worst case and unlikely, but it’s a risk, so that’s out.

See Below: R888R

Therefore if I want to stick to 19” all round, its either stick with the MPSC2 or move to a Trofeo R. The NT01 is unfortunately not an option locally.

The Trofeo R might prove to be a street/track comprise like MPSC2 vs a true R spec tyre….and the 305’s don’t work in any Trofeo R combo, as the width is too wide...

So will need to be a 295 max in the rear. Not a deal breaker, but not my perfect set up preference either.

See Below: TROFEO R

So im stuck at this point with running a 265/35 x 285/35 or a 265/30 x 295/30 Trofeo R….that’s assuming these are any better than the MPSC2? Any thoughts on this…?

Advan AD08Rs would work also, but not sure these would be any/much better than the MPSC2 anyway?

None of the all 18” Wheels I looked at, mainly R888R and Advan AD050R work either, due to loads mainly, and sizing ratios.

One other option is that I go for a Staggered 19x18 set up in the R888R, kind of like the GTS I guess but with 19x18 instead of 20x19.

This works (on paper) really well, but not sure about in practice… keen to hear any thoughts on this?

See Below: R888R Staggered

If I went for a staggered set up, I’d probably then pair the R888R with new set of 18x9.5 ET 22/24 front and 19x10.5 or 11 ET 42/44 in the rear. Apex has an option, almost….

APEX EC-7 18X9.5" ET22
APEX 19x11” ET44 (this wheel is still in ‘feeler stage’, so not yet in production)

Does anybody run a 18”x19” staggered set up – and does this work?

Would the 19” 265/295 Trofeo R in 19” be a better option the 255/305 19” MPSC2 im currently running?

Keen to hear what others think, or importantly, have experienced.

Green is where its within spec range and red is outside spec.

[Billj747]

Well written. The TrofeoR and MPSC2 are very similar. The AD08R won't be too far behind and the 888R is probably the fastest.

[Race82]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Well written. The TrofeoR and MPSC2 are very similar. The AD08R won't be too far behind and the 888R is probably the fastest.

Thanks Billj747 yeah im keen to get the right specs.... in Oz we can get the Advan AD050R, which is significantly better than the AD08R (only OZ outside of Japan gets these due to the World Time Attack event)...however they only come in 18" and the loads are incorrect...

May i ask further thoughts on why you think the AD08Rs will be better than the Trofeo R -or even the Staggered R888R?

Fast is a good metric, but the M4 isn't lacking straight line speed, its the cornering speed and exit grip im most interested in and focused on...

[Billj747]

You need to look at the tread width to properly size the tire to the wheel. This is a MUST-READ:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx


The AD08R "won't be too far behind" means it's slower than the TrofeoR & MPSC2.

"Fast" means "fast lap times". I'm not sure why you would think that referred to straightaway speeds.

I have not driven the 050R, especially the "soft" variants but if it's like the super secret soft A048 WTAC tires, they won't last much more than a few laps. The medium 050R should be similar to a 888R -and faster than the TrofeoR and MPSC2.

[rx7gslse]

great writeup... and I came to the same conclusion with the 18/19" stagger and asked teh other day to a response of crikets...


18s don't typically come in 295/305 rears, and 19s don't typically have the right OD front tires.

I was looking at the new RS4s... 265/275-18f/305-19r but same sizes are available in RE71r, AD08r, V720 PSC2, Trofero R and others...


But like you, also ran into the lack of an off the shelf 19x11ish et44. I'm on the feeler list at Apex, but given the timeline on their SM-10 development, I don't think they'll be out before the end of summer, if they come out at all.


Edit - I like your plan... but still in the shopping stage and haven't been to teh track with the new car yet, so can't really tell ya my experiances.

[CanAutM3]

Since you have the standard iron rotors, why don't you just run 18" all around?

There are better and less expensive tires options by going that route. Further, since you don't like your wheels, you could get good fitment 18" wheels.

A very popular setup is 275/35R18 and 305/35R18 setup on 18X10ET25 and 18X11E44 wheels. Those tire sizes are offered by a few brands such as NT01 or R888.

[Race82]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Since you have the standard iron rotors, why don't you just run 18" all around?

There are better and less expensive tires options by going that route. Further, since you don't like your wheels, you could get good fitment 18" wheels.

A very popular setup is 275/35R18 and 305/35R18 setup on 18X10ET25 and 18X11E44 wheels. Those tire sizes are offered by a few brands such as NT01 or R888.

Thanks CanAutM3, you are right about the wheels and tyres.

I am definitely leaning in that direction...however the R888's (non R) also work in spec with my current TSW 19" in either 265/30ZR19 x 295/30ZR19 OR 265/35ZR19 x 305/30ZR19. So will probably run this configuration until a broader range of R's are released (hopefully) at which time happy to buy 18"s if that's the best option.

I had removed the R888 (non R) as an option as I understand Toyo are phasing these out in place of the new R888R and so access etc might be tricky, and also the Tyre design is quite old now, in comparison to the new R version.

However, they are still probably the best option at present - certainly better for track use than the MPSC2 or Trofeo R right???

Ideally Toyo will release a higher load spec 19" R 265/30 or 35/19 for the Front (min 92Y) in future.

Or an 18" 295 or 305/30/18 R that meets load spec for the rear and can be paired with 265/35/18 on front which already has correct load.

Either way, 18" or 19" would solve the problems...Being such a popular track car, Toyo would be mad not to put something out in either of these specs....fingers crossed!

[Race82]

Originally Posted by rx7gslse

great writeup... and I came to the same conclusion with the 18/19" stagger and asked teh other day to a response of crikets...


18s don't typically come in 295/305 rears, and 19s don't typically have the right OD front tires.

I was looking at the new RS4s... 265/275-18f/305-19r but same sizes are available in RE71r, AD08r, V720 PSC2, Trofero R and others...


But like you, also ran into the lack of an off the shelf 19x11ish et44. I'm on the feeler list at Apex, but given the timeline on their SM-10 development, I don't think they'll be out before the end of summer, if they come out at all.


Edit - I like your plan... but still in the shopping stage and haven't been to teh track with the new car yet, so can't really tell ya my experiances.

Cheers rx7gslse, as CanAutM3 suggests, it looks like R888 (non R) are best option for either 18" or 19" set up at present, unless willing to go the staggered route... fingers crossed Toyo releases some extra sizes/loads in near future