E90 to E46M? Chime in!

[Move Over]

Hey guys, as some of you know me around here i have been tracking for about 2 years now. I have come to the point where I am looking into some fully built/caged/TT cars, one of them being an E46 M3.

Wanted to get some of your thoughts as to is any of you have experience in a track E46. This particular one has about 70k miles, cage, suspension, half gutted and weighs in about 3050 lbs. Comes with 2 sets of wheels (Hooisers on Apex), and I think it can be had in the 22-23k ballpark. It is still very streetable which I like.

I am currently selling the corvette i recently bought (Don't ask ) and probably the E90 as well as they are really both too expensive to track exclusively and i don't use either enough to justify having them sit in the garage. The thought of putting a 50k car into a wall and paying track insurance on a near 50k car is grueling to me. Crap is pricey! I was originally looking at built E36 M3's but this car seems like a happy medium of my E90 and going all the way back to an E36.

I want to get your guys thoughts on the E46 as a track/tt car. This one seems very well built, and has been done very well for the money. He's got about 20-30k worth of mods into the car, Vanos, subframe and rod bearings have all been addressed.

Mods include:
BMW Mods 2002 BMW M3 Street legal Racecar 74K miles.
Interior:
• Built by Bones custom rollbar
• Leather Z Gauges
o Oil Pressure
o Water Temp
o Volt
• Sparco steering wheel and Sparco hub
• Turner Motorsports alum pedals
• Radio delete plate (also has stock CD player-storage)
• Buddy Club P1 raceseats
o VAC mount (Sparco slider on drivers side) and Planted mounts
• Schroth 6pt belts (thru bolted with steel backers, in date)
• Carbon sunroof delete panel
• Full front interior
• Custom alum rear seat delete panel
• AntiGravity 16 cell 2.9lb race batter with custom alum mount
o Lithium battery tender (hardwired lead to the car)
• Full Traqmate Basic (wired to car with custom dash mount)

Suspension and brakes:
• AST 4100 coilovers
• Hyperco springs
• Vorschlag front and rear alum mounts
• Full metal subframe bushings
• Turner Motorsports adjustable front and rear sway bars
• Turner Motorsports adjustable rear toe links
• Bimmerworld Carbon brake ducts
• Stainless Steel brake lines
• Hawk DTC pads and extra set of HP plus pads
• Full set of spare stock rotors
• Front and rear functional tow hooks
• Turner alum front strut brace
Engine:
• Magnum AFE intake
• Bimmerworld full race 3.5” exhaust
o Stock cats (STREET LEGAL!)
o Custom alum OEM muffler delete panel
Wheels and exterior:
• Stock 18’s with good transport and street tires
• Apex ARC 8’s (18x9.5) with NT01s (almost dead)
• Apex EC 7s (18x9.5) with Hoosier A6’s (lots of life left)
• Black kidneys
• Black markers
• Custom graphics with reflective numbers and class letters

Let me know your thoughts boys! Thanks.

[Mvez]

E46 M3 is a fun, quick and relatively cost friendly car to track. Add aero and some motor mods, and it becomes and extremely fast car. S54 is a tank of a motor, full of character.

I had a "street legal" full track build, not full caged though. I regret selling it. I actually tried to buy it back from the owner.....no dice, he loves it. You aren't going to blow by people on the straights, but that was never the E46's strength. Know that going in, and I think you will enjoy it. Super easy to drive.

Not sure about the pricing market on these cars, or if this is a good deal, per-se, but the mods are pretty typical for this type of build.

[dogbone]

As the person above mentioned, you would need to add aero to be fast in TT. If you buy aero new, that's $3-4k.

Just as a reference, the guys that are now Trinity Autosport built an E46 with a full cage that weighed 2550lbs. It's not cheap to attain a weight that low, but at least it gives you a reference of where the car could go.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by dogbone

As the person above mentioned, you would need to add aero to be fast in TT. If you buy aero new, that's $3-4k.

Just as a reference, the guys that are now Trinity Autosport built an E46 with a full cage that weighed 2550lbs. It's not cheap to attain a weight that low, but at least it gives you a reference of where the car could go.

I'm not quite to the point of time trials, but headed in that direction.

[M3 Number 86]

How about an e36 track car? I may know of one for sale.

Just need to put an s54 in it.

[lcrain]

Sounds like a good build. I didn't see any mention of rod bearings, vanos or upgraded cooling. I would recommend all three on a track day s54.

Metal subframe bushings sound like a horrible time on the street.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by lcrain

Sounds like a good build. I didn't see any mention of rod bearings, vanos or upgraded cooling. I would recommend all three on a track day s54.

Metal subframe bushings sound like a horrible time on the street.

I've been in contact with him, they have all been addressed with documentation.

I have aluminum subframe bushings on my e90 and notice no noticeable difference in ride quality

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by Move Over

I've been in contact with him, they have all been addressed with documentation.

I have aluminum subframe bushings on my e90 and notice no noticeable difference in ride quality

Good deal. Don't rule out an e36. They are tangibly cheaper to run than an e46. I have an s54 in mine and it is a ball of fun!

[jakob66]

Originally Posted by Move Over

I'm not quite to the point of time trials, but headed in that direction.

Just for fun the E46 is great. If you want to win in TT, not so much anymore.
I'm TT racing with my E92 against fast guys with E46 and I can keep
them off by a couple sec. But again for fun looks like a great car!

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by jakob66

Just for fun the E46 is great. If you want to win in TT, not so much anymore.
I'm TT racing with my E92 against fast guys with E46 and I can keep
them off by a couple sec. But again for fun looks like a great car!

Are you in the same class as E46's?

I don't know a whole lot about how the classes go, but i'm learning.

[jakob66]

Originally Posted by Move Over

Are you in the same class as E46's?

I don't know a whole lot about how the classes go, but i'm learning.

The TT3 class in TT NASA are determined by a weight over Hp ratio of 10. Other classes have different ratio and/o depend on modifications.
The cars in TT3 are usually fully race prepped and gutted cars.

[ThunderMoose]

I run an E46 M3. E9x is going to be faster but E46 M3 is a very capable car. It's super easy to work on. You can find my build on m3forum.net.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I run an E46 M3. E9x is going to be faster but E46 M3 is a very capable car. It's super easy to work on. You can find my build on m3forum.net.

Do you think an e9x weighing in at 3600 lb is still going to be faster than an e46 at 3000lb? Driver skill stays the same

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by Move Over

Do you think an e9x weighing in at 3600 lb is still going to be faster than an e46 at 3000lb? Driver skill stays the same

HP isn't everything

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Move Over

Do you think an e9x weighing in at 3600 lb is still going to be faster than an e46 at 3000lb? Driver skill stays the same

Look at what Jakob66 says. We competed this year together at WGI in TT3. Same WT/WP. He did a 2:01. My best time was a 2:04. I had a 2:02 going but missed shift out of boot and had to settle for 2:04. The 3 top guys were powered by S65's.

I compete regionally against Greg S who won it all with a 2:00.x. He beat me solidly all season long. I would consider both Greg and Jens (Jakob66) to be better drivers than me but I am no slouch. Maybe with a 100 more laps I could crack into 2:01's at WGI, but with those same laps Jens and Greg would be in the 1:58's. IMO HP trumps lightness.

That being said, I can go to most HPDE's and harass many of the high HP cars.

Link to my build

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=509148

[CorruptCommie]

Was Greg S running the front wing, or were those times with similar aero between you guys? Forgive me, I'm not sure how TT3 works.

[redpriest]

Funny thing is I think you can get the E36 M3, E46 M3, and E92 M3 all within a couple seconds of each other if you do enough work to them.

Check out Brett Smrz doing at Buttonwillow Raceway Park (CW 13):

1:48 in E36 M3

1:49.7 in E46 M3

1:48.3 in E92 M3

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Move Over

Do you think an e9x weighing in at 3600 lb is still going to be faster than an e46 at 3000lb? Driver skill stays the same

You mean a fully stock E92 vs a lightened E46 M?

I've had both as track cars. People talk about the 'heavy pig' E92 which weighs pretty much the same as the E46

I also weighed both cars back to back with full tanks of gas and both of them 100 stock

My E92 was 3600#
My E46 was 3500#

The only 'heavy' option my E46 has is the sunroof, but remove it and you're still at 3450.

[Kong Sheng Han]

S65 swap the E46.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

S65 swap the E46.

That's not a bad idea my friend. Love the glorious sound of my s65

[Kong Sheng Han]

Just don't make it too loud, otherwise it may sound like shit like this one. You could also do side exit exhaust.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

Was Greg S running the front wing, or were those times with similar aero between you guys? Forgive me, I'm not sure how TT3 works.

He basically ran same times with and without wing.