Not needing BBK

[8600RPM]

I've been heavily tracking my car with stock rotors and ebc yellow pads and been on fast tracks that are very hard on brakes and have yet experienced fade outside of pedal travel being a bit longer with heat but have always had consistent full stopping power. Why is a BBK needed? I'm not sure I understand the complaints about e92 oem brakes after this season of 10 events in3 months. I've gone through 2 sets of ebc front pads but have worked flawlessly

[doogee]

I have to second this. Been running Project Mu Club Racer pads and have had fantastic stopping power and consistency.

At this point, the only reason I'd go BBK is for the ease of changing pads.

[Nihilation]

Originally Posted by doogee

I have to second this. Been running Project Mu Club Racer pads and have had fantastic stopping power and consistency.

At this point, the only reason I'd go BBK is for the ease of changing pads.

Seems like cost of factory spec rotors vs longevity. If you heavily track your car you may go through the cost of a BBK before too long. Then you can run a more street friendly pad and still be fine on the track, not to mention save on the cost of rotors.

[Fearce]

BBK's reduce unsprung and rotating mass as well.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I've been heavily tracking my car with stock rotors and ebc yellow pads and been on fast tracks that are very hard on brakes and have yet experienced fade outside of pedal travel being a bit longer with heat but have always had consistent full stopping power. Why is a BBK needed? I'm not sure I understand the complaints about e92 oem brakes after this season of 10 events in3 months. I've gone through 2 sets of ebc front pads but have worked flawlessly

have you considered different rotors and stainless lines? if you were to change anything for next season what would you change?

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Fearce

BBK's reduce unsprung and rotating mass as well.

Understandable if running in an actual series. But for track days this doesn't matter.

I also beg to differ. Most BBK setups weigh the same, if not more than the OEM setup on this chassis specifically. You usually drop some weight off the rotors, but gain weight in the caliper.

[///Mobbin]

As you move to stickier tires and more aggressive brake pads you tend to make the braking system work harder and create more heat. I've boiled my brake fluid even with my BBK for example. Just something to think about. I know folks have done extremely well with the stock calipers and PFC rotors. Adding the BBK over that setup just adds slightly better pedal feel (my opinion) and potentially easier pad changes, depending on which BBK you go with. I generally like my Stoptechs (ST40 kit front only), super easy pad swaps and the pads aren't as pricey as some of the larger kits.

[elim11]

OEM brakes when set up correctly (fluid, pads,etc) is quite capable. But with all things, when the driver style/skill level increase, you start to reach the limit of the components. Good drivers know how to drive around those limitations and keep them in check.

I have plenty of fast friends who are on the OEM system, I have a majority of my track days on the OEM system and only recently upgraded to a bbk.

The OEM system does have its limitations, but thats talked about extensively. I think what you are doing is correct. Drive it and increase level until the oem brakes becomes a limiting factor then upgrade.

[8600RPM]

I do have,stainless lines which is simply for max consistency.

I run super stick tires, re 71r. I also would argue as sikill improves oem is easier on brakes but not sure . I train brake a lot too so I'm pretty tough on brakes.

Anyway I'm not saying BBK isn't worth it, I was just honestly asking as always I heard for years,washable terrible these brass were ad haven't had that experience.

Padded changes are also super easy so who knows

[gan1hck]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I've been heavily tracking my car with stock rotors and ebc yellow pads and been on fast tracks that are very hard on brakes and have yet experienced fade outside of pedal travel being a bit longer with heat but have always had consistent full stopping power. Why is a BBK needed? I'm not sure I understand the complaints about e92 oem brakes after this season of 10 events in3 months. I've gone through 2 sets of ebc front pads but have worked flawlessly

I have kind of thought the same thing for a while, but now that I'm in my fourth year of tracking my car, and am advancing in my skills, I find that the brakes do fade.

In the last few months, I have been setting personal bests at my home track...pushing my lap times from 1:48's down to 1:46.

I never had fading issues running 1:48s...all day...even in summer heat, but when I started hitting 1:46's...I found that I would have fade about 15 minutes into a 30 minute session.

I'm looking to upgrade to a BBK for my next season.

[burnrbr]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

As you move to stickier tires and more aggressive brake pads you tend to make the braking system work harder and create more heat. I've boiled my brake fluid even with my BBK for example. Just something to think about. I know folks have done extremely well with the stock calipers and PFC rotors. Adding the BBK over that setup just adds slightly better pedal feel (my opinion) and potentially easier pad changes, depending on which BBK you go with. I generally like my Stoptechs (ST40 kit front only), super easy pad swaps and the pads aren't as pricey as some of the larger kits.

To me, the brake feel is much improved with my Stoptech front and rears. Before them, I had all six stainless lines and Motul 600 brake fluid with stock calipers. I was disappointed in the stock brakes compared to my previous three cars that had factory Brembo brakes. The stainless lines and better fluid did help some, but it was still not as good as a stock STI or 2009 CTS-V for brake pedal feel. I recently rented a Chevy pickup truck from Uhaul that had better brake pedal feel than my stock E90 M3 brakes.

Edited for typos.

[Saandiaago]

Great thread. I've been thinking about these issues recently as well. Depending on pads, how many HPDE track days are some of you getting with the stock set-up before the pads are gone? I tried Hawk DTC 70s recently and only got 3 track days; for some reason the right front wore down way faster then the left front, likely related to direction around the track and nannies being on? Nonetheless, kind of expensive!

[pbonsalb]

How are the ebc yellow and project mu club racer on tbe street compared to stock?

[roastbeef]

op, how are your times compared to other cars? are you running in groups where you're stuck in a conga line of miatas?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I've been heavily tracking my car with stock rotors and ebc yellow pads and been on fast tracks that are very hard on brakes and have yet experienced fade outside of pedal travel being a bit longer with heat but have always had consistent full stopping power. Why is a BBK needed? I'm not sure I understand the complaints about e92 oem brakes after this season of 10 events in3 months. I've gone through 2 sets of ebc front pads but have worked flawlessly

You do not need a bbk in this or any other M3. Despite clueless people swearing about how terrible a sliding caliper setup is, this car works perfectly fine with stock calipers if you have track pads.

I have a bbk and enjoy it very much, but I do not kid myself that the car brakes sooner with it

[elim11]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You do not need a bbk in this or any other M3. Despite clueless people swearing about how terrible a sliding caliper setup is, this car works perfectly fine with stock calipers if you have track pads.

I have a bbk and enjoy it very much, but I do not kid myself that the car brakes sooner with it

Yes and no. Where a bbk shine isn't a huge reduction in stoping distance but it's lap after lap consistency. At high speed tracks where you're going 140mph -30 mph lap after lap after a 20+min sessions will you start to see where the stock bbk has room for improvement.

Certain tracks will make this a lot more obvious than others. I spent the first dozen+ track days on the oem set up. Graduated from completely stock down to the Pad , to fluid to lines and track pads. With that progression came increased skill and speed which feeds back into stressing the brake system even more.

I do question when people have never tested the oem system themselves and just upgrade because they hear it "sucks". ....Just food for thought.

[elim11]

Originally Posted by Saandiaago

Great thread. I've been thinking about these issues recently as well. Depending on pads, how many HPDE track days are some of you getting with the stock set-up before the pads are gone? I tried Hawk DTC 70s recently and only got 3 track days; for some reason the right front wore down way faster then the left front, likely related to direction around the track and nannies being on? Nonetheless, kind of expensive!

On completely stock pads, I got about 3 days with mixed daily driving. I wanted to use up the pads before my maintaince was up so I brought a brand new set (estimated 36k miles before placement per computer) to ~9k miles in one day lol. Couldn't finish it off so plan backfired lol

[Ervin87]

The stock brakes are fine until you drive the car with a proper BBK. It is a big difference. Not just performance, but consistent feel and durability.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by elim11

Yes and no. Where a bbk shine isn't a huge reduction in stoping distance but it's lap after lap consistency. At high speed tracks where you're going 140mph -30 mph lap after lap after a 20+min sessions will you start to see where the stock bbk has room for improvement.

this. on a recent trip to laguna seca, i was really putting my bbk to work. i don't know the exact speeds because i couldn't look down and break concentration, but at turn 1, it seemed like i was going deeper and harder than anyone in my run groups. if there was someone in front of me approaching the braking zone for turn 1, i had to be careful not to run into the back of them because they started braking way early. and if someone was on my tail, by the time i started braking for turn 1- they weren't on my tail anymore.
there is no way i could have done what i was doing with oem brakes. they aren't even close to being as capable as a bbk.

[8600RPM]

Originally Posted by elim11

Yes and no. Where a bbk shine isn't a huge reduction in stoping distance but it's lap after lap consistency. At high speed tracks where you're going 140mph -30 mph lap after lap after a 20+min sessions will you start to see where the stock bbk has room for improvement.

Certain tracks will make this a lot more obvious than others. I spent the first dozen+ track days on the oem set up. Graduated from completely stock down to the Pad , to fluid to lines and track pads. With that progression came increased skill and speed which feeds back into stressing the brake system even more.

I do question when people have never tested the oem system themselves and just upgrade because they hear it "sucks". ....Just food for thought.

Actually has zero effect on stopping distance provided your stock psds,aren't fading to the point a full stop can't be made. I agree a super high speed track is the one place however those tracks also have long stretches which help cooling. Anyway they exist for a reason I was just getting inout

[Richbot]

I think (and have thought forever) these cars would be adequate with good pads and good ducting for 10/10ths over a session. Yeah you'll wear out the skinny 28mm front rotors fast but whatever, not relevant if you're just talking capability. Most people skip ducting and go straight to bbk because easy button. PRevious M3's had at least some semblance of ducting, this is the first one without, without ducting the stock setup fades and wears when driven to their potential, experienced it firsthand. I could run 1:13's at my local track all day long on street tires without fading my brakes, but running a low 1:11 lap after lap as a different story. If I were running an enduro I'd target 1:13's but that means coasting/braking early/short shifting. Slower you go the less speed the brakes have to knock off the less heat they generate. Duh.

Also keep in mind the abs/brake force distribution system has a few tricks up its sleeve to mask the fade. But the physics dont change

tldr; I agree if ducted

[MasterP]

My ST BBK gained weight in the rotor, lost weight in the caliper. There was a minor net loss in weight still because the OEM front calipers are incredibly heavy and while the friction rings are heavier the hat is still lighter than the OEM compound carrier.

Slotted vs. Drilled friction ring. No cracking between the holes, no rotor distortion.

Floating rotors, trophy hardware I get less knockback than the stock setup.

Stock pads almost half the length of ST60 pads. Stock front pads are 16.5mm thick, my track pads are 22mm thick in front, 18.5mm thick in rear. Extra pad life gained just in the increase in friction material. ST uses AP pad shapes so most pad combos are similar priced or less than OEM pads that have less longevity.

I got about 40 track days out of my front friction rings before replacement. They are about the same price as the OEM rotors.

Most calipers are stiffer than the OEM sliding ones and I've observed less pad taper so again I'm getting more life out of pads.

But putting all those benefits aside, the main reason BBK's are superior option for track use is the ease of swapping in pads. It takes me less time to swap pads than it does to get the car up on a jack and wheels off. I can swap pads between sessions and miss zero track time.

Add cooling and it's a pretty much invincible setup.

For me and how often I'm at the track it was a no brainer.