When do you upgrade tires?

[Dreamer99]

I do a couple open lapping track sessions per year. I have a set of ZCP's with stock PS2 tires that I use for these sessions. I have a different set of wheels for daily driving. First time out this year I trashed my front brakes so I purchased a set of PFC08's for all four corners and changed to SRF fluid. My next session out with the upgraded pads I felt like my tires were the weak link in the braking zones. Seemed like there was more tire chirping while braking (I try to stay above ABS but lack the experience to not make these mistakes). Is it possible that the tires can't keep up with the brakes?

When do you upgrade to a stickier set of tires? I'm thinking in terms of the Hankook RS3, RE71's or AD08R.

[Dreamer99]

I run at a technical track and a daily event usually gets 4-5 35 minute runs.

[///Mobbin]

For the tires you are talking about I would go ahead and upgrade on the next set, may as well use up the PS2's first though.

[admranger]

PS2s suck. RE-11s are a step up as are PSS'. RE71r's are a huge leap.

You should go to a stickier tire when you can controllably and repeatably 4-wheel drift the car (not hang the tail out, I'm talking a fast lap). Until then the sticky tires will just mask errors you make and your learning curve slows down. Plus, with stickies you hit stuff faster when you really f'up.

[Candide13]

You will get a lot of opinion on this, see this thread for example.


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1278796

From what I've read the problem with PS2 on the the track is not the performance but that they can wear quickly once you lean on them; some folks report seeing cords after a single weekend. So something with stiffer sidewalls might be a good direction. Also, many track-oriented tires are cheaper than the PS2...

This year I am trying Nitto-05 tires for the track and so far I really like them; my experience has been much as described by Longboarder in the above thread.

Good luck, there are many nice choices out there..

[dparm]

I would upgrade tires as soon as your technique is good.

[roastbeef]

Got my track set of wheels after my first track day when I knew I was addicted. They came with nt01's and guess what...

[Dreamer99]

I definitely don't get my car sideways or in a four wheel drift. Too many off camber corners with concrete walls in play at Mission Raceway to risk it. I keep traction control on all day and yes, it seems to intervene coming out of most corners.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Dreamer99

I definitely don't get my car sideways or in a four wheel drift. Too many off camber corners with concrete walls in play at Mission Raceway to risk it. I keep traction control on all day and yes, it seems to intervene coming out of most corners.

Try Euro MDM. Perfect compromise. The only time it really cuts in is if I'm not driving smoothly.

[Kong Sheng Han]

No DSC or bust. I tell everyone now that they should turn off traction control ASAP. Too many benefits.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

No DSC or bust. I tell everyone now that they should turn off traction control ASAP. Too many benefits.

Everyone's risk tolerance is different. Euro MDM allows enough slip to still be fun. You can't go as fast as with DSC off but it's not an epic difference. If there are a lot of "that won't buff out" opportunities I completely understand running some form of DSC. however, DSC does not guarantee a spin or crash free day. You can crash with DSC on. Seen it.

[redpriest]

I found that with RE-71R that's Euro MDM was not nearly as intrusive than with NT01. It was cutting all over the place with NT01, to the point that I just went full DSC off at that point.

Also, even stock Euro MDM (no modifiers) is really punishing at a track like Laguna Seca where the final turn 11, if you are on the throttle too early for its taste it will cut your power for a good 2-3 seconds, where as with DSC off, you slide a little bit and are on your way.

[shawn5096]

I had this same question. The best advice I received when I had Michelin PSS's.

"when you can make the tires sing at every corner, then upgrade."

[dparm]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Also, even stock Euro MDM (no modifiers) is really punishing at a track like Laguna Seca where the final turn 11, if you are on the throttle too early for its taste it will cut your power for a good 2-3 seconds, where as with DSC off, you slide a little bit and are on your way.

Odd, I've never had Euro MDM need to intervene for several seconds at a time. The DSC light will flash briefly if I do something really stupid, but it is never holding me back for more than a fraction of a second.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by dparm

Odd, I've never had Euro MDM need to intervene for several seconds at a time. The DSC light will flash briefly if I do something really stupid, but it is never holding me back for more than a fraction of a second.

Neither did I until Laguna Seca. It was weird.

[Kong Sheng Han]

E46 DSC is more intrusive than E9X. I can instantly shave off 5 seconds at any track after disabling DSC.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Neither did I until Laguna Seca. It was weird.

Hmmm...throttle modulation much?

I had euro mdm on w/NT01s at Laguna during O'Fest and I can't recall an issue with throttle cutout at 11. Opposite lock had to be added sometimes as the back end would step out a bit. I used this tendency to allow me to early 11 a bit and still get the car around the corner without running out of curbing on exit.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by dparm

Try Euro MDM. Perfect compromise. The only time it really cuts in is if I'm not driving smoothly.

Drive in the rain with DSC off. You will learn throttle control and master car control. In most cases, the penalty for messing up is much less since speeds are much lower. The wet weekends are ones where I learned the most.

Too many people weenie out and don't drive in the wet because they can't set fast lap times.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Drive in the rain with DSC off. You will learn throttle control and master car control. In most cases, the penalty for messing up is much less since speeds are much lower. The wet weekends are ones where I learned the most.

Too many people weenie out and don't drive in the wet because they can't set fast lap times.

I've had a weird stroke of luck that NONE of my track days this season were in the wet.

[Datka]

Originally Posted by admranger

I completely understand running some form of DSC. however, DSC does not guarantee a spin or crash free day. You can crash with DSC on. Seen it.

Yes, you can crash with DSC on. I agree. However, you have to do something really stupid to do so.
I have seen a lot more crashes with DSC off vs DSC on.
I drive with euro MDM on, but sometimes I turn it off just to see the difference.
Depending on the track, its between 1 and 2 seconds. Car is faster with DSC off of course.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Drive in the rain with DSC off. You will learn throttle control and master car control. In most cases, the penalty for messing up is much less since speeds are much lower. The wet weekends are ones where I learned the most.

Too many people weenie out and don't drive in the wet because they can't set fast lap times.

Or it could be that if you have even a bit of an off, wet grass can be as slick as ice, and you will not stop until you hit something hard. Ask me how I know. The penalties may be much less if you stay on track, they may be substantially more if you do not.

[aus]

If Euro MDM is cutting your power for a couple seconds, it really doesn't like what you're doing with the throttle or steering wheel/throttle combo. I read here that it takes into account the steering wheel angle, slip angle and throttle to help determine when the cut power or brake. I found it's much less intrusive if I open the wheel up a little more with throttle application; it seems to work well. At O'Fest, I did my first 4 wheel drift going around 5 and a little around 6 with no MDM lighting up. That was butt clinching fun!!