What clubs do you run with?

[VictorH]

I'm a member of Audi, Porsche (don't own either make) and BMW clubs. I haven't run with Audi in a while but boy I think the Porsche folks are really getting progressive and are now my favorite OEM make club.

Just signed up for end of October Road Atlanta event with PCA (Oct 21-23) and they now have only one instructed group (novice) and everything else is solo. In addition groups 3 and 4 are passing anywhere with point by. Finally, with these changes all sessions are now 30 minutes. Seems to me to be the best happy compromise for the intermediate to advanced driver.

For whatever reason BMWCCA (insurance?) there is still too much check-off hand holding even in the advanced groups and they are just so much more risk averse than PCA. Now PCA has come a long ways as they used to be my least favorite for all the reasons, and then some like the BMWCCA is now. PCA is by no means "free-style" anything goes and the quality of the drivers I think is very comparable among the clubs. There's nothing better than running with a group of drivers who are all in synch and you don't get that unless you're solo with a bunch of like-minded drivers.

I avoid NASA DE as they are definitely very "free -style" which usually results in more crashes, more super aggressive drivers and of course a huge variability of cars on the track. Every been passed by an ex-NASCAR Cup car? Man they are loud.

Anyway, I've never run with Chin, but I understand it's a lot of very serious hardware and I've found that when you're running with a bunch of 991 GT3s, C7 Z-06s and other high-end stuff they are so much faster than everything else it takes away from the fun a bit.

Track Daze is another I need to try, but it's still about balancing the work-life balance and how to work some more events into the schedule.

[Estoril Blue]

I go out with a fair number of BMWCCA and PCA chapters - as well as several commercial groups.

I disagree that drivers cannot be in sync and the driving isn't good unless its a solo group. Problem driving is problem driving. Drivers don't just magically clean up their act once they solo.

Different chapters of BMWCCA and PCA have some differences in how they are run. If one isn't your style - go out with another. Some chapters attract different types of cars. Run groups in one chapter may be much faster than the same group in another.

It seems you are observing that some run groups run less fast than you prefer - and others run too fast for your taste. Pick groups you prefer and go out with them. Its a big HPDE world and not everyone wants the same thing.

[M3 Esq]

I agree PCA tends to treat students more like adults. I like BMW cca but they coddle students way too much and the check out rides for advanced students is ridiculous. Plus BMW likes to pack in 3 classrooms so your constantly running around. I much prefer PCA right now. For anyone in the northeast SCDA is a good group and well run. The only instructed group is the novice group and they don't cram instruction and classroom down your throat like BMW. I've also heard trackmasters is pretty good but I've never tracked with them.

[dparm]

It's rare that I run with one of the big "clubs" like you're describing (NASA, SCCA, PCA, BMWCCA). There will be a lot of variation from region to region simply due to the leadership, but as a whole I prefer the smaller local groups.

My advice would be to use a site like MotorsportReg and just try a bunch of clubs until you find the one(s) you like. My dad and I have found two Midwestern ones that we really like: reasonable prices, lots of driving time, very safe, but also very laid back and easy to talk to.

[macdude357]

I've run with a number of groups this year. BMWCCA, PCA, NASA, SCCA and SpeedVentures. I think that the experience you get with the national clubs is very region dependent. I had heard some pretty bad stuff about NASA from someone in Northern California; however, my experience with them in SoCal was great.

I think that BMWCCA is great for beginners (it was my first track experience). You get a lot of instruction and there are few, if any, aggressive drivers. I haven't run with them recently so I can't comment on how they are in the higher run groups but I would think that if you are looking for instruction, they would be a good group to run with.

SpeedVentures to me is just track time. No frills, kind of what you see is what you get. I think that the higher your run group, the better your experience. A lot of purple drivers don't do a good job with the point-bys but black is better (and I assume green and red are as well since they are open passing).

The one event I did with PCA was pretty positive. It was run very similar to BMWCCA except that they did not require an instructor unless you were a novice. If they don't know you, they start you out in the lower groups but I was quickly moved up after the first session.

I have to say that NASA has been my favorite so far. Instructors are available if you want. They have useful, short, classroom sessions after each session. In HPDE 2, passing was only on the straights but it was open so you didn't have to wait for a point by. Everyone was very friendly as well.

My last event was with SCCA. SCCA (Cal Club) runs things a bit differently. They only have one run group and you only get three twenty minute sessions (the first couple of laps in the first session are lead follow so it's really more like fifty five minutes of track time vs. an hour); however, the cost was only $200 for the weekend and included some food for dinner. Also, no gate fee was charged (I did have to pay a $15 weekend membership fee since I'm not an SCCA member). Because they only have one run group, there was a pretty big disparity in ability. It seems that most of the drivers were casual, "just wanna take my car to the track" types. Most of the drivers had run with them before though and while passing was point-by only, I never got stuck behind anyone for any length of time because everyone was great about giving point-bys. I think an advanced driver would get frustrated but I think they are good for beginner to intermediate drivers.

[bigjae1976]

I found that PCA was a lot more bureaucratic than BMWCCA in the regions I've been involved with but again...it all depends. Overall, I've had a great experience between BMWCCA, PCA, SCCA, and some other local orgs.

The biggest difference is going to be how drivers are developed meaning the quality of instructors. HPDE instructors should be teaching HPDE. The biggest difference being that you have to anticipate traffic and work with others to achieve a good pass. HPDE instructors should be checking mirrors and grading how the driver plays with others. Some DE orgs do a much better job than others. If instructors are teaching that then hardware and track configurations are irrelevant.

You can tell a LOT from the driver's meeting. Is it organized? What is the focus of the meeting? The biggest indicator of all...Are there still people in the paddock working on their car while the meeting is going on? What are the consequences if the drivers misses the meeting?

As an instructor, I try to sit in on the driver's meeting and then wander the paddock. Is my student NOT in the driver's meeting? I've ran into this...had a discussion with the chief instructor and the student missed his first session getting the driver's briefing.

[surlynkid]

NASA's goal is to get you into TT and possibly racing. They are not really looking for career DE folks. That is for TX region. NOLA region seems to be different as they have fewer racers. It depends by region.

I drive with whoever is at a track I want to run on a weekend I want to run.

You have to also watch out for lack of parity between run groups between organizations. I see advanced drivers that should be dropped 2 notches. I think Chin has the toughest criteria to be advanced. You better bring it on your check ride to Advanced with them. Since they allow pass anywhere with a point, they have to raise the bar.

[ThunderMoose]

Chin's my favorite DE group. I run TT with NASA. NASA is my favorite group overall. It's a fun weekend with all of the racing and such that is going on.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I found that PCA was a lot more bureaucratic than BMWCCA in the regions I've been involved with but again...it all depends.

Yes, I've noticed this too. PCA is pedantic to the point of being awkward and unpleasant. I've stopped running with them.

[Move Over]

Check out Just Track It for the southeast region. I've run a few events with them and all is very safe and organized. Pretty decent prices too.

[Datka]

SCDA, NASA, CHIN, EMRA.
All 4 are great, but Chin is my favorite now.

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by Datka

SCDA, NASA, CHIN, EMRA.
All 4 are great, but Chin is my favorite now.

I am contemplating going to Palmer with Chin next Oct. Which events have you run with them?

[Datka]

Originally Posted by Candide13

I am contemplating going to Palmer with Chin next Oct. Which events have you run with them?

I only run with them twice. First time was last year at WGI and last monday/tuesday at WGI as well.
Very orginized well run event. If you are in any of their solo run groups, passing is allowed anywere but only with a point by.
This club attracts drivers from different states and you will see some serious hardware.
Be ready to be passed often, if you run in their advanced solo run group. Lots of racers with very fast race cars...

[Datka]

Here is the pic from last monday, chasing GT3 RS

[loveskiing]

Originally Posted by Datka

Here is the pic from last monday, chasing GT3 RS

Wow, nice pic! So realistic! Did you ever catch them?

[Datka]

I did overtake that Porsche, but he is not as experienced as me. His car should be much faster.
There were other cars that were faster. Mostly race cars.

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by Datka

I only run with them twice. First time was last year at WGI and last monday/tuesday at WGI as well.
Very orginized well run event. If you are in any of their solo run groups, passing is allowed anywere but only with a point by.
This club attracts drivers from different states and you will see some serious hardware.
Be ready to be passed often, if you run in their advanced solo run group. Lots of racers with very fast race cars...

That sounds good! Earlier this year I went to WG with NASA for an HPDE-only day and I really enjoyed it. Much to learn from congenial racers..

Nice picture..must be at that slight off-camber left turn near the end. What times was your group running?

[Datka]

My best lap time was 2:12.4. There were some crazy race cars that were running under 2 min

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by Datka

My best lap time was 2:12.4. There were some crazy race cars that were running under 2 min

Wow, your time is about the fastest I've seen for our cars; that's F8x territory