Which car to track?

[PGas32]

First off, let me admit that yes, this is indeed a first world problem. But after my latest motorcycle-induced injury, I'm done on two wheels and ready to hit the track with one of my cars. My 'dilemma' is that I'm not sure which one I should use.

My 2010 E90 is my daily driver, although I actually drive my wife's X5 more than anything else. I feel like it would be a good choice because it's so well-balanced and confidence inspiring, plus I can fit a lot of stuff in it (EZ-up, wheels, etc). I should also mention that it's a stripper build - no Nav, no moonroof, cloth seats, 18's...perfect for the track. I'm hesitant, however, because it is supercharged so I'm afraid I'll be more concerned with managing the power than I will be on learning the line, hitting marks, etc. Plus it's not intercooled, so I may have that to deal with.

The other option is my 997 C2S. Obviously a more focused performance car, but the problem is that it's pristine. 11k miles, garage queen/date night car. As we all know, the track beats cars up. I'm not necessarily saving the car for its next owner, but I sure would have a hard time beating it up on the track. Then again, what's the point in even having it if I'm not going to drive it?

My ultimate goal is to race...Spec E30, Spec E46, 944 Cup and Spec Boxster are all on my radar. I had the thought of buying one of those base cars and building it as I go, but I really don't think I have the know-how or inclination to do a full build on my own.

So, what's the consensus? I'd really prefer to keep my current lineup, but hey we all know how that works...996 GT3 and a Civic daily??

[roastbeef]

well, you could always track both cars once and see which one you enjoy more, then go from there. they are going to be very different cars on the track.

[Groundpilot]

Have you driven any car on the track?
If no, or limited experience, starting this in a SCed m3 may not be a good idea.
However, if i was you, i would still take m3 over your porsche, as bmw is more forgiving and easier to drive fast.
I would suggest to drive it with MDM on.

[PGas32]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

well, you could always track both cars once and see which one you enjoy more, then go from there. they are going to be very different cars on the track.

I'm signed up for two events already and will actually be driving the M3 at the first and the 911 at the second, just due to logistics...wife and Jr. will be coming with me to the first, so that necessitates taking the M3

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Have you driven any car on the track?
If no, or limited experience, starting this in a SCed m3 may not be a good idea.
However, if i was you, i would still take m3 over your porsche, as bmw is more forgiving and easier to drive fast.
I would suggest to drive it with MDM on.

I've been on track in a car twice, plus some AutoX experience. FWIW, I was 'B' or Intermediate on a street bike...which may not directly relate, but it does mean that I'm familiar with some basic concepts and comfortable with passing/being passed.

Let's assume for a minute that I go with the 911...is it premature to get a set of track pads to swap in?

[dogbone]

There are so many unknown factors here. And there's no right or wrong answer. I would take both to the track and see what was more fun for you. You won't ruin either car with one or two track days. You'd probably trash the tires, but that's an easy fix.

A few things to consider:

-Do you already have track experience? If no, the BMW will be easier to start with---even with the supercharger. If yes, either will be fine, but the Porsche will always be more demanding when trying to go fast. On my first track day ever, I had a supercharger in my E90 M3. It was fine. But I also kept Traction Control on. And I took my time to build skill. I was slow slow slow at first. Nothing wrong with that. If DSC is off, just remember to be smooth with the throttle exiting corners because there's a lot of power, and those tires can break free before you know it---espeically street tires.

-How often do you plan on going to the track? If you are new to the track, and plan on less than an average of once per month, your skill will not grow very quickly. I grew up in Silver Spring, Maryland. I know the weather there. It sucks. And it's unpredictable. The winter is very sketchy---can have snow, be super cold.... And the summer can have yucky weather---if it's not storming crazy thunderstorms, it's nasty hot and humid. So, to average once a month can actually be quite challenging. Plus, finding tracks within a reasonable drive is also a challenge. My point is that if you are new to the track, and you can't go very often due to weather and the distance to tracks, the Porsche might be a long slow learning curve. The BMW might be better.

-If you foresee a day where you are fast enough that you want a set of dedicated race wheels with nice sticky race compound tires, but you don't want to drive to the track on them, the BMW will be MUCH easier to track. I used to drive my E90 M3 to the track before it was a dedicated, trailered track car, and I used to jam up to 6 wheels, two floor jacks, and a TON of gear in it. The Porsche cannot even begin to compete in that department. Off-track logistics are important.

-Engine Heat. Overheating the engine is a big issue in E9x M3's if you go fast. If you are new to tracking and run on street tires, it won't be much of an issue for quite awhile because you can't push as hard. But you do have a non-intercooled supercharger. If you are already an experienced track rat and plan on running slicks, heat in the BMW is going to be an issue. The Porsche guys that I've seen never really complain about overheating. So, I think the Porsche wins here.

-Mods. Modding a late-model BMW is expensive, but modding a Porsche is far MORE expensive. People in BMW-land complain about the BMW "tax" when doing mods. hehe it's NOTHING compared to the Porsche "tax". When a Porsche factory carbon wing is $12000, you know you're in for a wild, wallet-emptying ride. I don't care what stock parts are on either car-----as you track, you're going to want to start replacing parts with more track-oriented parts. I've been down the road in my E90 M3. I know. And I've watched my friends with Porsches.

-Time: Ultimately, the biggest question is---how much time do you have to dedicate to this stuff? Racing is MASSIVELY time consuming if you commit to a series. If you have a lot of time to spend on this and you really do want to race, I would skip over the street cars and just buy an already-built old race car like E30. Cheap to buy, cheap to drive and cheap to fix. (Of course, you'll need a trailer and a towing vehicle. The trailer presents many challenges like where do you park it, it needs regular maintenance, do you want an open or enclosed one? An enclosed trailer is heavy and needs a very solid towing vehicle. An open trailer is lighter and can be towed by something smaller but doesn't offer NEARLY the amount of convenience of an enclosed trailer.)

Anyway, hope that helps.

[PGas32]

Very helpful, thanks for taking the time to write that all out. I know there's no right or wrong answer, just looking for some opinions. My goal isn't to turn either into a dedicated track car - I just want to get started down the HPDE road before buying a dedicated race car. Although I don't currently have a car trailer, trailering and storage won't be a problem once I get there.

I'd love to get into Spec E46, but there is a large difference in upfront cost between that and Spec E30 even if running costs aren't dramatically different...but I might be getting ahead of myself

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dogbone

-Time: Ultimately, the biggest question is---how much time do you have to dedicate to this stuff? Racing is MASSIVELY time consuming if you commit to a series.
.

This is so true. Massively, massively time consuming.
I only track in late spring/summer/early fall and to get 17 days in is very difficult. It basically consumes all of my free time, every year.

Two events a month, so 6 days, is very hard to manage. I do not see someone in a serious relationship or kids doing this.

A friend of mine got into AER racing and my God, that is another level. 10 people pit crews, the car gets crashed almost every time, new engine/tranny/diff replaced right on track...


OP, I think you'll be fine getting track pads. It doesn't sound like you're going hungry, so buy a set of PFC08 or other easy to use track pads for the Porsche and maybe also the BMW so you can shake them down safely.

[WhatsADSM]

If the money/time is no issue then get track pads.

I also agree with others that you should take both to the track and feel out which one you enjoy more.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by PGas32

Very helpful, thanks for taking the time to write that all out. I know there's no right or wrong answer, just looking for some opinions. My goal isn't to turn either into a dedicated track car - I just want to get started down the HPDE road before buying a dedicated race car. Although I don't currently have a car trailer, trailering and storage won't be a problem once I get there.

I'd love to get into Spec E46, but there is a large difference in upfront cost between that and Spec E30 even if running costs aren't dramatically different...but I might be getting ahead of myself

hehe I know you're saying now that you don't intend on turning either into a dedicated track car. That's what I said too. And for three years, my E90 did both street and track duties. It had a lot of track parts on it, but it was still totally comfortable to drive on the streets---JRZ, AP Racing, supercharger, track wheels, etc. It was fast as heck at the track, but drove FANTASTIC on the streets. So, with the E90 M3, you can have a car that kicks ass on track but is TOTALLY comfortable on the streets as a family car. No one in my family EVER complained about being in the M3 on the streets with all it's mods.

Now, it's a fully roll caged, gutted, with aero track car. If you're curious, I have a thread that shows the build: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158445

I just ordered a new small mod that shipped today that I'm excited to try. I'll be reporting about that soon in the thread. Honestly, that car is a CONSTANT never ending project…….That's what I love about it!!!!!

If you take either the 997 or M3 to the track, MAKE SURE you swap out the stock brake fluid for good track-oriented brake fluid. This is VERY important. The brake fluid from the factory is NOT made for track rigors. I am a fan of Castrol SRF. Very hardcore awesome brake fluid. Others will tell you to go with a cheaper fluid. You can, but why? We're talking just a few dollars difference on $80k+ cars. It's brakes. Nothing is worse than a brake pedal going to the floor. Totally avoidable with good brake fluid, along with a quality track pad. And in the long run, SRF stays in your car longer than other fluids, so it's not more expensive.

Anyway, track pads and track brake fluid, and you will enjoy both cars at the track. Just keep in mind that a good solid track day will ruin the cherry-ness of any street tire, so the cars might not roll as smooth on the street after the track day because the tires have melted rubber rings and bits on them. The other thing that could help is having some kind of air inflator. You usually deflate the tires by a number of psi's when running on track. But when you want to go home, you want to re-inflate them, so having some portable air device can be handy.

Have fun!

[M3 Number 86]

wife is going - so take BOTH cars and drive BOTH back to back to decide.

plus it would just be an awesome day.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

wife is going - so take BOTH cars and drive BOTH back to back to decide.

plus it would just be an awesome day.

I like this idea. It has the side benefit that if your wife *hates* it at the track, she can take off in one of the cars, you don't have to leave early and you are out of the doghouse quicker.

Make it happen!

Leave ego at home. Mod driver, then car. Porsche stock brakes are likely fine until you progress up the ladder a bit. SC may necessitate aftermarket pads for the E90M3. Most of all, have fun and don't get caught up in the lap time chase. Get caught up in the fun and perfecting your craft.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by admranger

I like this idea. It has the side benefit that if your wife *hates* it at the track, she can take off in one of the cars, you don't have to leave early and you are out of the doghouse quicker.

Make it happen!

Leave ego at home. Mod driver, then car. Porsche stock brakes are likely fine until you progress up the ladder a bit. SC may necessitate aftermarket pads for the E90M3. Most of all, have fun and don't get caught up in the lap time chase. Get caught up in the fun and perfecting your craft.

the bolded part above is arguably the most important part haha

if jr wants to stay and that forces wife to stay - well that's on him!!!

[admranger]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

the bolded part above is arguably the most important part haha

if jr wants to stay and that forces wife to stay - well that's on him!!!

31 years of marriage. I have learned a few things serving that sentence, errr, being married that long.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by admranger

31 years of marriage. I have learned a few things serving that sentence, errr, being married that long.

Life with no parol. I'm almost 3 years into my sentence. When am I eligible? Lol

[1MOREMOD]

Upon death

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Upon death

Sometimes, even after that

[okusa]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Upon death

The first to occur of (i) death; or (ii) you acquiring enough assets that you don't care that 1/2 goes to her.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by okusa

The first to occur of (i) death; or (ii) you acquiring enough assets that you don't care that 1/2 goes to her.

You could also blow thru so much of your worth that you don't care if she gets half?

[admranger]

Originally Posted by okusa

The first to occur of (i) death; or (ii) you acquiring enough assets that you don't care that 1/2 goes to her.

Ahhh, the Trump equilibrium equation.

[Richbot]

Sell 911, buy already built racecar, if you want to race stop dicking around and race. 997 will fetch a good se30 and truck and trailer to tow it with lots left over. You will learn more about driving in your first race weekend with the se30
Than a decade farting around at 8/10ths at track dAys

[PGas32]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Sell 911, buy already built racecar, if you want to race stop dicking around and race. 997 will fetch a good se30 and truck and trailer to tow it with lots left over. You will learn more about driving in your first race weekend with the se30
Than a decade farting around at 8/10ths at track dAys

I like this approach - just need to work on the race license.

I'm leaning towards the M3 with a good set of pads at this point. If I find that I don't like having the S/C on track, I can always sell it. That would fund a lot of seat time and tires. Thanks for chiming in everyone

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by okusa

The first to occur of (i) death; or (ii) you acquiring enough assets that you don't care that 1/2 goes to her.

I saw a meme today that read:

I wish I made enough money to afford to live like my kids and wife