Supercharger for e92 track car? Yes or no?

[ccondo]

I have a e92 with kW club sports, BBK, a set up square 18s with nitro nt01s.

I have been considering upgrading to an ESS supercharger and I was wondering if anyone could speak to difference it makes on the track?

I was told ESS doesn't recommend going over 600 hp for the DCT. So I am considering the 550 or 595 kit.

[ailikesiliu]

I say no, 400hp is plenty, weight reduction is more needed for a track car, especially for our heavy e92s, supercharger will only make you go faster in a straight line, but less weight will make you go faster in turns AND straight line.

[admranger]

Some folks have done it, but there's a huge heat management issue you need to contend with.

Upgrade the seat the steering wheel interface first.

[M3 Number 86]

Dogbone okusa both have supercharger. Don't know if they need to manage their sessions though. They can chime in.

I say just get stroker then.

[Estoril Blue]

I would think carefully about the heat management issue.

[okusa]

Heat management is a no more an issue with an intercooled kit than a non-supercharged car. Sticky tires are a much bigger issue. I NEVER overheated even once when I was running RS3s. However, I got a temp warning my very first session with TDs.

Unless you plan on turning your car into a tin box aka dogbone then I say supercharge all day. It will totally transform your car. The only people that ever argue against it are those that either don't want to pay for it or have never been in a 650 hp M3.

[CalSE]

I would go for tires, aero and weight reduction before supercharging. Overheating is worst when supercharged.

[dozaiya]

i wanted to supercharge a long time ago but because of the overheating issue everyone states i decided to stay away from it
i'm wondering if the harrop kit would deal with heat better
for the track i go to there is a 1km straightaway, so having a supercharger would help a lot

[ccondo]

A little off topic but what about either changing gear ratios or upgraded diff?

[Richbot]

No

[bigjae1976]

I had a sc'd 330. I would really question how much power I was really getting at the end of a session on a hot day. I always got the slug of low end torque...wouldn't always get the nice pull to redline. There is a HUGE difference between running on a 60 degree day and an 80 degree day. But it was VERY FUN!

Not sure if the S65 has the same issue but belt tensioners were a problem. If you want to run into issues really fast...just throw a belt on the track.

It can be done and people are doing it. Its just going to increase your running costs significantly.

[nicksm3]

Take it from me, NO! not worth the added weight in the nose and heat Soak. Focus on learning the track and your lines!

[ccondo]

Thanks for all the valuable advice

[dogbone]

Yes! Superchargers are fun! They make the car feel like you always wanted it to feel. It LEAPS out of corners. It makes the straights exciting because the world starts whooshing past you real quick---no sitting around bored on the straights. It makes the corners more challenging because you're coming in quite a bit hotter.

E9x M3's overheat on hot days if you drive with super grippy tires like Hankook TD. It doesn't matter if there's a supercharger or not. With lower grip tires like Nt01 it's not as much an issue because you can't push the car as hard.

I have around 100 supercharged track days on my E90 M3. The feeling of that car leaping out of corners really is just awesome!

If you're an HPDE guy like me doing 20 minute sessions, it's generally fine. In temps below 70° F, it's totally fine. Time attack with 2-3 totally clean super hot laps is also fine. I've done really well in time attack with my car.

My friend is using an ESS 625 kit on track. I have a VF620 kit. We have DCT. It's been fine. We installed an EAS misting system that sprays water on three radiators. That helped.

However, having a supercharger on track is more financial commitment. I change my oil every 2-4 events. And I ONLY RUN 100 OCTANE at the track. This is important. 91 octane is not good enough for an aftermarket forced induction car on track. There's a lot of heat and pressure. Cheap gas is not appropriate in those circumstances. Also you need to keep an eye on your spark plugs because they get more abuse too. And you'll want to replace your rubber belts on a regular maintenance schedule before the factory would have you do it.

Your times on track will drop a couple seconds. It's not night and day as far as lap times go, and you do have more weight in the nose which is not ideal. But who cares? It's fun to mash the gas and feel that thing take off like a rocket!

Bottom line: Superchargers deliver linear, predictable immediate power. No lag, no turbo surge. The torque is manageable---no crazy torque spikes. Basically the supercharger just makes it feel like you have a much larger NA engine under the hood.

[roastbeef]

i'm staying away from a supercharger for a few reasons (in no particular order);
1. cost. upwards of $5k, plus the install and domino effect of other mods to combat heat, handle the power, etc..
2. car is plenty fast. there are other parts that need to be upgraded before supercharging (brakes, fluids, track wheels).
3. reducing weight helps acceleration, braking, and cornering.
4. i'm still improving my own skills.
5. i don't want to jump through hoops every two years to pass california smog (this may not effect many people).

i'm not saying i wouldn't enjoy a supercharger and have a blast, i would. i just sort of feel like there are other items that need attention before adding more power.

[e46e92love]

DELETE

[jphughan]

Why do stickier tires cause overheating? What specifically is overheating? I can of course see the brakes having to cope with more heat as a result of stickier tires, but I can't see how reduced wheelspin on acceleration or increased cornering speeds would lead to driveline components overheating, unless maybe you're getting reduced oil flow in the corners due to the higher lateral load, but that would be a severe problem and I would also guess you'd see oil pressure warnings. What am I missing?

[mkPOTO]

I have been supercharged for over a year or so now and I have a handful of track days under my belt with the supercharger one.

I did not just jump into installing a supercharger on my m3. I took baby steps to better understand how my car would react to my modifications. I ended up with my current kit because of that fact that it was air to air, and when out of boost it drove and felt like a beefier n/a car.

I have zero issues with running my car to the limit with my current kit. Because it is a air to air kit the temperatures are low and I have not seen temperature go much higher than compared to it being na.

The only issues that I have is really putting my car through its paces, there are plenty of times when I track that I get a bit nervous, but after doing a few warm up laps I am at ease and can push my car to the limit that I am comfortable with. The only drawbacks at some tracks are that I do not have to downshift as much. But I tend to downshift more just from what I was taught.

Here is my latest track event, it was 9x+ degrees out with a crapton of midwest humidity. Had no issues with the car.

Honestly, I think it is up to you on whether or not you want to supercharge your "track car" just make sure you are aware of the pros and cons. You put much more wear on the engine and other things. But that's the fun in it right

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Yes! Superchargers are fun! They make the car feel like you always wanted it to feel. It LEAPS out of corners. It makes the straights exciting because the world starts whooshing past you real quick---no sitting around bored on the straights. It makes the corners more challenging because you're coming in quite a bit hotter.

E9x M3's overheat on hot days if you drive with super grippy tires like Hankook TD. It doesn't matter if there's a supercharger or not. With lower grip tires like Nt01 it's not as much an issue because you can't push the car as hard.

I have around 100 supercharged track days on my E90 M3. The feeling of that car leaping out of corners really is just awesome!

If you're an HPDE guy like me doing 20 minute sessions, it's generally fine. In temps below 70° F, it's totally fine. Time attack with 2-3 totally clean super hot laps is also fine. I've done really well in time attack with my car.

My friend is using an ESS 625 kit on track. I have a VF620 kit. We have DCT. It's been fine. We installed an EAS misting system that sprays water on three radiators. That helped.

However, having a supercharger on track is more financial commitment. I change my oil every 2-4 events. And I ONLY RUN 100 OCTANE at the track. This is important. 91 octane is not good enough for an aftermarket forced induction car on track. There's a lot of heat and pressure. Cheap gas is not appropriate in those circumstances. Also you need to keep an eye on your spark plugs because they get more abuse too. And you'll want to replace your rubber belts on a regular maintenance schedule before the factory would have you do it.

Your times on track will drop a couple seconds. It's not night and day as far as lap times go, and you do have more weight in the nose which is not ideal. But who cares? It's fun to mash the gas and feel that thing take off like a rocket!

Bottom line: Superchargers deliver linear, predictable immediate power. No lag, no turbo surge. The torque is manageable---no crazy torque spikes. Basically the supercharger just makes it feel like you have a much larger NA engine under the hood.

Just to add on to what Dogbone has said, I wanted to point out that he can run aggressive aero because of his extra power. That's why you would get a supercharger. If you do like me and run a blower on stock suspension and no aero it's probably going to slow you down.

At the last track event, dogbone went something like 1:46 at Auto Club Speedway his second time there. It would be highly improbable for a non-boosted M3 to get that time even with a professional driver.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Why do stickier tires cause overheating? What specifically is overheating? I can of course see the brakes having to cope with more heat as a result of stickier tires, but I can't see how reduced wheelspin on acceleration or increased cornering speeds would lead to driveline components overheating, unless maybe you're getting reduced oil flow in the corners due to the higher lateral load, but that would be a severe problem and I would also guess you'd see oil pressure warnings. What am I missing?

A low grip tire reduces your ability to push an engine hard. A high grip tire allows you to push a car harder at all times in every situation around the track. This leads to overheating. Let's look at silly extreme examples to get the idea across. If you had an ice covered track and used grocery cart tires, you would have to tip toe around that track. You would never ever be pushing that engine hard---no high revving, no manic gear changes, just easy shmeezy driving as far as the engine is concerned. But let's say you have magical super ultimate grip rubber on a sand paper super high grip magical track and you don't need to brake for corners, you could run at red line and pound the engine all the way around the track. You would easily overheat the engine because you could push it so hard. You can't just run an M3 at redline lap after lap. It simply overheats.

Now back to reality----if you can brake less because a sticky tire holds better in the corner, then you come in with more speed, that means you exit with more speed and also can get on the gas sooner and more aggressively. Usually this means the engine is revving higher the whole time. If you are going faster in the corner, get on the gas sooner and more aggressively, then you can get to a higher speed on the following straight. Also on wide rounders, the car holds better and you can push higher speeds all the way through a rounder which is demanding on the engine. All these things are more stressful on the engine. When you do that corner after corner, straight after straight, along with rounders, lap after lap, the heat in the engine oil and the radiator water rises substantially quicker than with less grippy tires where the engine simply is not working as hard.

A "faster" tire isn't faster on its own. It simply provides more grip so that you can use more of the engine's power more often. The price for doing that is the potential for quicker overheating. There's always a price.

[jphughan]

^ Thanks! That makes perfect sense. Probably because I wrote that post early in the morning, I completely forgot that more grip as you say would generally translate to a higher average RPM all around the track, except for cases where you might upshift on stickier tires and wouldn't on lesser tires. But even considering that I guess I'm still surprised that a grippier but still non-slick tire would make that much of a difference in that sense given that my E92 on AD08Rs never had its oil temperature rise above about 240 F even at CotA in the middle of the summer, so I always figured there was plenty of headroom before overheating.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jphughan

^ Thanks! That makes perfect sense. Probably because I wrote that post early in the morning, I completely forgot that more grip as you say would generally translate to a higher average RPM all around the track, except for cases where you might upshift on stickier tires and wouldn't on lesser tires. But even considering that I guess I'm still surprised that a grippier but still non-slick tire would make that much of a difference in that sense given that my E92 on AD08Rs never had its oil temperature rise above about 240 F even at CotA in the middle of the summer, so I always figured there was plenty of headroom before overheating.

Even in the case of upshifting, remember that you redlined the previous gear (which you weren't able to do with the lesser tire) and with the shift, the rpms only drop briefly to 6500 rpms and rise rapidly back the 8000 rpms. And you've upshifted to a larger gear and are probably at wide open throttle to make the car go even faster, so there's still a huge load on the engine because the speeds are very high. The engine is not having a picnic when it stays above 6500 rpm for extended periods of time.