Proper bedding technique for Pagid RS19s?

[TheDirtyThirty]

I can't find the thread on proper brake bedding, so Ill ask here.

Current set up is Pagid RS19s with OEM calipers/rotors and motul rbf600

1)Is it best to bed brakes the day of an event or can it be done the day before?

2)Also how are you bedding your Pagid RS19s? I only ask because when I first installed them I did maybe did hard 10 stops from 70-0mph but the pads where loud as hell afterwards and the rotors where still shinny so Im thinking it wasn't done correctly

looking forward to my first track day in the e90, should feel a little a different than my moderately track prepped s54 swapped e30 lol.

Thank you

[SYT_Shadow]

If you have an E90 you may be better off buying pfc08 pads. Similar profile to the rs29s and their bed in consists of a few warmup laps at the track

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you have an E90 you may be better off buying pfc08 pads. Similar profile to the rs29s and their bed in consists of a few warmup laps at the track

The pads costs a lot of money and already installed on the car, I don't think switching them out for pfc08s is an option at the moment. Plus I researched and these seemed to work best with stock rotors/calipers from other people's experience.

[beats]

These two pdf's are direct from Pagid, and pretty similar. I do the one with less deceleration runs, and my pads feel fine for the track. The first few runs always help with final bedding... And I used RS19's too. Awesome pads.

[nholmes]

OP: Do you have a plan to remove the old pad deposits from your existing rotors?

That's also something to consider.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you have an E90 you may be better off buying pfc08 pads. Similar profile to the rs29s and their bed in consists of a few warmup laps at the track

+1.
OP, i understand you already purchased pagids, but i would recommend using PFC 08 after you are done with them.
There is a reason many ppl (including myself)switched from pagid rs29 to pfc08.
If you dont follow bedding procedure recommended by Pagid exactly, they are not going to perform well, and that procedure is very weird i must say.
On the other hand PFC 08 can be bedded on the track.

[VtecforV8]

Just bedded/used a set of PFC08s at VIR last weekend. They worked great with no issues (other than the fact that they're quite loud during both track and street use). To be exepcted from these kind of pads, I suppose. Anyone else have a different experience from a noise perspective?

[swftiii]

Like others have said, Pagid are very finicky if not bed in properly - follow their procedure or you will have transfer issues with the rotors.

I would say they are not streetable, unless you like squealing like a pig when stopping.

Skip

[dbyrd]

I've used several sets of Pagid yellows (RS-19 and RS-29) on both the OEM caliper and the Stoptech caliper. They are great pads, but they can be a bit finicky at bed-in. Once they are properly bedded, they're good to go - even if you switch pads for street use. Ideally, you can drive them on the street on the way to the track or the day before in order to wear off any other pad material. Go with the bed-in process attached in the previous post that involves more gradual brake application early in the process - not hard on the pedal like other pads.

They will squeal on the street and they will wear the rotor more than a street pad. As with any track pad, you should switch them out once you move into the intermediate run group. PFC-08s are great, too, but over $500 for the Stoptech pad.

[TheDirtyThirty]

All great feedback guys, very much appreciated! I guess I will attempt their weird brake in procedure on the way to the track, its the second step in the process that gets really confusing lol. Especially the part about recovery stops, I did a little research on "recovery stops" and found a good explanation through a lotus form:


This is to facilitate the burnishing portion of the bedding procedure. Keep in mind that there are four objectives to proper pad & rotor bedding:

1. Thermally 'seasoning' the iron disc: Iron is a goofy material with a random molecular structure. It holds and rejects heat very well, but can be a bit temperamental until it sees some temperature -- by slowly heating and cooling. After which, it is more relaxed and able to take higher temps before causing trouble. This is the same reason why it is often desirable to build a race engine with a used iron block than a new one.

2. Burnishing the pad and rotor contact surfaces: This is the removal of all high spots and the proper mating of two surfaces that were finished in separate operations. Think: Cam and lifters/followers.

3. Initial promotion of a pad transfer layer onto the disc surface: Pads do not perform at their best when rubbing on naked iron. If a transfer layer is laid down and then subsequently 'frozen' by controlled cooling, the pad will respond better, have better initial bite, wear more evenly and have more controllable and predictable friction levels. After many miles of street driving, it is a good idea to bed the pads in again to regain performance that has been slowly degrading as this layer wears off.

4. Pad post-curing: Pads are made by compacting abrasive and lubricating elements, held together with various resin binders. These binders don't help much with friction until converted to carbon. This is achieved by cooking them to the point at which you can smell them off-gas. The better full race pads are post-cooked in an oven at high temperatures for many hours, then painted to look like it never happened. This is not done for street pads due to the added cost. Racers think it is normal to pay $200-400 for track pads when street guys bitch if a box of street friction cost more than the $39.99 "premium" pads at AutoZone. Go figure!

The recovery braking events that Pagid is suggesting are to help with the burnishing, as well as to help smear the pad transfer layer on evenly as the heat from the harder stops soaks into the pads and rotors. If the layer becomes uneven, brake shudder will result (along with "warped rotor" claims from the under-informed driver). Remember, never, ever stop with your foot hard on the pedal when the rotors are very hot. This is a sure way to upset the transfer layer, which leaves a nice witness mark in the form of pad print-off (a faint outline of the pad friction puck on the rotor surface). I would suggest light braking (.3-.4g) from 70mph or so down to 20mph for the 3-4 times they are recommending.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by VtecforV8

Just bedded/used a set of PFC08s at VIR last weekend. They worked great with no issues (other than the fact that they're quite loud during both track and street use). To be exepcted from these kind of pads, I suppose. Anyone else have a different experience from a noise perspective?

bearable but probably perspective. it's still squeaks but my xp12 on the street sounds worse than a bus.

[SYT_Shadow]

I would need much better performance to bother with any of the 'bedding' procedures I read on here.

People must have much more free time than me. The day someone makes brake fluid that costs $500 for a quart and never needs bleeding I'll be the first in line.
KISS is a good principle to live by

Someone has already accomplished making a pad you 'just drive' with. Take it into account for the future OP...

[bigjae1976]

The pagid yellows...you should bed them in the day prior since you should allow a cooling cycle before using them. The main drawback in NOT bedding in the pads properly is you'll get a wicked wheel shudder under braking which eventually goes away. I really don't like about the Pagids is they seem to wear the rotors faster. They seem to cause less heat cracking but I'll take the cracks vs the rotor wear rates I've observed. And the bite sucks.

Which is why I would use PF01s (now PF11s) with stock brakes. They have great bite and the pad wears when they are abused vs expensive and harder to replace rotors.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Which is why I would use PF01s (now PF11s) with stock brakes. They have great bite and the pad wears when they are abused vs expensive and harder to replace rotors.

Opinions seem to be mixed on that "updated" compound. 08 is still the go-to around here, but the new 11 sounds like a really solid choice too.