Shenandoah track weekend

[Candide13]

Last week, I went for a two-day weekend event with Trackdaze at Summit Point's Shenandoah circuit. It was my first time there as that is normally too far from NYC, but I had something work-related going on in Pennsylvania afterwards, so I grabbed the opportunity.

Shenandoah is a twisty and tight 2.2 miles circuit with 22 corners (!). It also features a replica of the Nürburgring Karussell as a special party trick..

The track is a great fit for lighter cars, so my expectations were moderate for our heavy beast, but it worked surprisingly well. There is one corner combo (the corkscrew) where you look bad seemingly no matter what you do, but otherwise the M3 slithered around the track in just the right way. Special bonus was getting a point-by from a Cayman GT4.

It rained quite a lot on the first day, so there were a few wet sessions, but otherwise it was a great driving environment. I did experience the biggest tire pressure differential yet; I aim for 38 hot for the Nitto-05s, but starting with 34 cold I got to 44 hot after the first session... After that got adjusted I felt the tires were working really well.

This was also the first time I switched off the traction control in each session (not in the wet, and only after the tires/brakes had warmed up). It's not a night-or-day difference, but it does feel somewhat different and ended up a little faster even though it feels slower; it certainly makes for an extremely engaged and tactile driving experience..

It did not feel unsafe, I guess because the M3 is such a forgiving and easy car to drive on the track. I only power-oversteered once, when trying to enter the Bridge straight, but that was easily corrected with some throttle feathering and light counter steer.

So, if you are near it, I thoroughly recommend trying out Shenandoah.

[roastbeef]

never heard of it until now, but it looks like a really fun course.

interesting about the karussell replication... i have fantasized about winning the lottery and creating an exact replica of the nurburgring in the united states. hehe

[enycerz]

i love the skid pad there.

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

never heard of it until now, but it looks like a really fun course.

interesting about the karussell replication... i have fantasized about winning the lottery and creating an exact replica of the nurburgring in the united states. hehe

Yeah, that would be great! The most difficult thing about the karussell is entering it neatly at the right angle; once you are in it everybody just plonkers around it with neutral throttle at some 45 mph. The corkscrew combo that follows it is a different proposition...

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by enycerz

i love the skid pad there.

That's true, I forgot that. It was particularly fun driving on the skid pad during the pouring rain, no shortage of slipperiness then!

[Estoril Blue]

Some pics from that event:

[Estoril Blue]

[Estoril Blue]

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Yeah, that would be great! The most difficult thing about the karussell is entering it neatly at the right angle; once you are in it everybody just plonkers around it with neutral throttle at some 45 mph. The corkscrew combo that follows it is a different proposition...

i've seen pics from the 'ring of people entering/exiting the karussell and getting some air under the tires. is this a typical transition or just when someone is really going for it?

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i've seen pics from the 'ring of people entering/exiting the karussell and getting some air under the tires. is this a typical transition or just when someone is really going for it?

The instruction I was given was to get the braking done before entering the Karussell and then to enter it at an angle, to help the drop in effect. I suspect that drop in could lead to some air under the wheels if you are pushing it, but I did not see anyone doing that even in the advanced groups.

Just before the Karussell at Shenandoah is an uphill straight with a peaked crest affectionally named the ski jump; cars going faster than 100 mph will get air there! The M3 can get up to 120 there, which I know because an advanced driver gave me a ride in his E90 M3, but I did not like the feeling and kept it at 100...

[Candide13]

Cool pics EstorilBlue! Taken from the bridge?

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Cool pics EstorilBlue! Taken from the bridge?

Some from the bridge - some from the wall above the skidpad.

[Apex Everything]

I am no expert and have only been to a couple track days, but I disliked Shenandoah.

I went for a SCCA track day and the head instructor stated in the initial meeting that this is not the best of tracks, none of it flows together, but I promise you will have fun.

I did have fun, but there are better tracks.

One thing I disliked is none of the straights are real straights.

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by Apex Everything

I am no expert and have only been to a couple track days, but I disliked Shenandoah.

I went for a SCCA track day and the head instructor stated in the initial meeting that this is not the best of tracks, none of it flows together, but I promise you will have fun.

I did have fun, but there are better tracks.

One thing I disliked is none of the straights are real straights.

Shenandoah flows. You just need the technique, vision and experience to get it flowing. Yes - Shenandoah throws a lot at you. Blind apexes, on and off-camber turns, combination turns, elevation, throttle steering, the Karrussel...... In places you can be very fast with the right technique timed and applied just so. IMO - that the fun of it. It ask a lot of a driver and penalizes a blown line. NJ BMWCCA runs Shenny with 2 more turns factored in (almost no-one else does that configuration along the hot pits). Skidpad right in the paddock.

I have heard the "It doesn't have long, flat straights" complaint before. Personally I find long, flat straights to not be that interesting. They only require the right pedal to the floor. I can go out on the highway and do that.

No track is everyone's cup of tea I suppose. But I think Shenandoah makes a more skilled driver when driven well.

IMO

[Apex Everything]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

Shenandoah flows. You just need the technique, vision and experience to get it flowing. Yes - Shenandoah throws a lot at you. Blind apexes, on and off-camber turns, combination turns, elevation, throttle steering, the Karrussel...... In places you can be very fast with the right technique timed and applied just so. IMO - that the fun of it. It ask a lot of a driver and penalizes a blown line. NJ BMWCCA runs Shenny with 2 more turns factored in (almost no-one else does that configuration along the hot pits). Skidpad right in the paddock.

I have heard the "It doesn't have long, flat straights" complaint before. Personally I find long, flat straights to not be that interesting. They only require the right pedal to the floor. I can go out on the highway and do that.

No track is everyone's cup of tea I suppose. But I think Shenandoah makes a more skilled driver when driven well.

IMO

The Karussell is another reason I disliked it. It was copying another track to a T. (everyone knows the 'Ring)

About the flat straights, I was always taught that straights are where you can compose and relax. (A reason people love the longgggggggggg straight at the 'Ring)

[turbo_joe]

Shenny as a training course in my opinion. It's narrow and very technical and it will teach you a lot about yourself and your car (or bike.) that's the reason no pro level races are held on it and they use Summit Main instead.

I have not had a car on the course but raced my old bike on it about 15 times.
And to the comment about flat straights and relaxing, you're on a racetrack you don't relax. Relax when you're off the track.

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

Shenny as a training course in my opinion. It's narrow and very technical and it will teach you a lot about yourself and your car (or bike.) that's the reason no pro level races are held on it and they use Summit Main instead.

I have not had a car on the course but raced my old bike on it about 15 times.
And to the comment about flat straights and relaxing, you're on a racetrack you don't relax. Relax when you're off the track.

I'm not aware of any pro racing on Summit Main.

Even the non-pro vintage racers quit Main for 3-4 years because the track surface wasn't being maintained well enough to support their races. Thats been fixed and they ran their vintage races most recently a week ago.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

I'm not aware of any pro racing on Summit Main.

Even the non-pro vintage racers quit Main for 3-4 years because the track surface wasn't being maintained well enough to support their races. Thats been fixed and they ran their vintage races most recently a week ago.

I should say semi pro or pro-am, I know Asra, Wera, and and a few other motorcycle groups run it still but none of the very high up groups. Buddy of mine is actually running Main all weekend in his bike.

I am really hoping now that Dominon is done that it will encourage summit to refinish some of their tracks and improve its facilities.

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

I should say semi pro or pro-am, I know Asra, Wera, and and a few other motorcycle groups run it still but none of the very high up groups. Buddy of mine is actually running Main all weekend in his bike.

I am really hoping now that Dominon is done that it will encourage summit to refinish some of their tracks and improve its facilities.

I hope you are right - but the final status of the DOS contract and whether they leave for their own dedicated facility in Va. will be the #1 factor determining whether SP has the money to do improvements. The majority of money at SP is federal.

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by Apex Everything

I am no expert and have only been to a couple track days, but I disliked Shenandoah.

I went for a SCCA track day and the head instructor stated in the initial meeting that this is not the best of tracks, none of it flows together, but I promise you will have fun.

I did have fun, but there are better tracks.

One thing I disliked is none of the straights are real straights.

I totally understand this feeling and really this is what I expected when I went: a technical and busy track on which the M3 is not at home, but which would afford some good practice. That's why I was so pleasantly surprised. For sure, just getting the track layout into my head took a couple of sessions in which I almost turned the wrong way at a couple of spots (easy mistake to make because the lay out is to some extent variable).

Eventually the enjoyment of this track probably comes down to seat time, I think. I had 14 track days before I went to Shenandoah, but I am a slow learner so that is probably comparable to 7 days for many other drivers. Still, I think there are several parts of the track where you pretty much have to use slightly advanced techniques like throttle steering and threshold breaking to get the car around smoothly and fast. Otherwise the track just does not make sense.

Same with the straight straights and the important mental breathing space you get from those; with more seat time you can relax your fingers etc in shorter straights, like the first part of the bridge straight.

Anyhow, I am not trying to be clever here, just relating experiences. And whilst I enjoyed Shenandoah I love Watkins Glen...

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

Some from the bridge - some from the wall above the skidpad.

Just noted that we met at the track, you were driving the beautifully-blue E46? I was the guy packing 4 wheels and the farm tools back into his E90 at the end of the event...

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Just noted that we met at the track right, you were driving the beautifully-blue E46? I was the guy packing 4 wheels and the farm tools back into his E90 at the end of the event...

I remember you - its good to meet people here in person!

Alan