JB4 On Top of ECU Tune?!

Ridicule23 · 04-08-2015, 05:46 PM

title says all. am I asking for trouble ? Will the stock turbos handle such boost, or is it recommended id to upgradable turbos to manage this power.. open to comments/suggestions.. or concerns

..

TeKiZeRo · 04-08-2015, 06:04 PM

Why would you want to put a piggyback on top of an ecu tune?

Ridicule23 · 04-08-2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeKiZeRo

Why would you want to put a piggyback on top of an ecu tune?

one would think to get more gains ?!

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 04-08-2015, 06:19 PM

This can be done using the JB4s unique absolute boost targeting maps (rather than the normal additive maps). BMS offers dedicated flash maps to use with the JB4 for most other applications. I expect one for the S55 too down the road.

For addl info on this you'd be best off checking out BMS' forum where they discuss it.

Mike

A Frankfurt · 04-08-2015, 06:23 PM

This is something similar that was done with the N54 application.
Maybe even Cobb did it as well

FC4 · 04-08-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridicule23

one would think to get more gains ?!

Yeah, totally. So like if an ECU tune gives a stock car gains of about 60 RWHP, and a piggy-back gives gains of about 60 RWHP...both together should net 120 RWHP over stock, right? That would be nuts.

Ridicule23 · 04-08-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridicule23

one would think to get more gains ?!

Yeah, totally. So like if an ECU tune gives a stock car gains of about 60 RWHP, and a piggy-back gives gains of about 60 RWHP...both together should net 120 RWHP over stock, right? That would be nuts.

I knew I wasn't talking crazy

. thanks guys . very excited

AlterZgo · 04-08-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This can be done using the JB4s unique absolute boost targeting maps (rather than the normal additive maps). BMS offers dedicated flash maps to use with the JB4 for most other applications. I expect one for the S55 too down the road.

For addl info on this you'd be best off checking out BMS' forum where they discuss it.

Mike

Hey Mike! Welcome back.

FC4 · 04-08-2015, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridicule23

I knew I wasn't talking crazy

. thanks guys . very excited

Yeah this is definitely possible. You'll have all the gains of the ECU tune on top of all the gains from the piggyback. I'm shocked no one has done this already.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 04-08-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC4

Yeah, totally. So like if an ECU tune gives a stock car gains of about 60 RWHP, and a piggy-back gives gains of about 60 RWHP...both together should net 120 RWHP over stock, right? That would be nuts.

lol it's normally done because the JB4 using isolated boost control can better control higher boost levels and provide addl features like boost by gear and torque limiting. Most DMEs also have boost and torque caps that are difficult to work around. But without a flash the JB4 can only push boost so far over stock. So they design a special flash map and special JB4 map that are meant to work together to provide the driver the best of both worlds.

Mike

Drive4Fun · 04-08-2015, 06:54 PM

Most flashes don't up the boost as much as piggybacks so that's where some extra power could be made. But I wouldn't say double the flash tune power by no means. Now I've had the same thought and spoke with Terry@BMS and he was excited to do a tune for cars with a flash. Another benefit would be just switching maps with the JB4 and running some race fuel. Mike made a good point about how the later maps use absolute boost targeting instead of the additive method so making more power shouldn't be to hard.

TeKiZeRo · 04-08-2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridicule23

I knew I wasn't talking crazy

. thanks guys . very excited

You know he was being sarcastic, right? lol

Adding a piggyback on top of a tune doesn't double the power.

tom @ eas · 04-08-2015, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeKiZeRo

You know he was being sarcastic, right? lol

Adding a piggyback on top of a tune doesn't double the power.

Only doubles the risk. Stick with one or the other.

TeKiZeRo · 04-08-2015, 07:07 PM

A proper ECU tune will give your car the maximum reliable power it can on the selected octane. Adding a piggyback will only push you beyond the that reliable power point and you'll probably end up taking out half your pistons with it.

dmk08 · 04-08-2015, 07:07 PM

What if I daisy chain the ESS e-tronics and JB4.

Ridicule23 · 04-08-2015, 07:10 PM

not necessarily , I have to talk to terry about an under map which should control boosts, and that will bring me to the next level of power

tom @ eas · 04-08-2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk08

What if I daisy chain the ESS e-tronics and JB4.

It'll grant 3 wishes?

TeKiZeRo · 04-08-2015, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk08

What if I daisy chain the ESS e-tronics and JB4.

I think that'll grant close to 800whp/871wtq on 87 octane.

sA x sKy · 04-08-2015, 09:24 PM

I don't see why it would be a bad idea since the N55/N55 have proven that stacking does work, especially when fuel comes to play. My N55 was stacked and I had no problems in 60k miles.

8600RPM · 04-08-2015, 09:27 PM

I have no experience in this but how the heck is a jb4 needed if one can re program the tables in the ecu? That makes no sense at all

War Tank · 04-08-2015, 09:36 PM

Great idea since you can just use the JB4 to control the boost.

Ridicule23 · 04-08-2015, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Tank

Great idea since you can just use the JB4 to control the boost.

04-08-2015, 05:46 PM	#1
Ridicule23 Private First Class 41 Rep 164 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Brookville,NY iTrader: (0)	JB4 On Top of ECU Tune?! title says all. am I asking for trouble ? Will the stock turbos handle such boost, or is it recommended id to upgradable turbos to manage this power.. open to comments/suggestions.. or concerns ..
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04-08-2015, 06:04 PM	#2
TeKiZeRo First Lieutenant 108 Rep 318 Posts Drives: '15 M3, '13 GT-R, '14 MP4-12C Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (3)	Why would you want to put a piggyback on top of an ecu tune?
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04-08-2015, 06:19 PM	#4
Mike@N54Tuning.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 4918 Rep 115,980 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N54tuning.com iTrader: (89)	This can be done using the JB4s unique absolute boost targeting maps (rather than the normal additive maps). BMS offers dedicated flash maps to use with the JB4 for most other applications. I expect one for the S55 too down the road. For addl info on this you'd be best off checking out BMS' forum where they discuss it. Mike
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04-08-2015, 06:23 PM	#5
A Frankfurt Banned 247 Rep 616 Posts Drives: German Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Murrieta CA iTrader: (0)	This is something similar that was done with the N54 application. Maybe even Cobb did it as well
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04-08-2015, 06:54 PM	#11
Drive4Fun Private First Class 57 Rep 146 Posts Drives: MW BMW M4 Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Southeast Louisiana iTrader: (0)	Most flashes don't up the boost as much as piggybacks so that's where some extra power could be made. But I wouldn't say double the flash tune power by no means. Now I've had the same thought and spoke with Terry@BMS and he was excited to do a tune for cars with a flash. Another benefit would be just switching maps with the JB4 and running some race fuel. Mike made a good point about how the later maps use absolute boost targeting instead of the additive method so making more power shouldn't be to hard.
	Appreciate 1 Quote

04-08-2015, 07:07 PM	#14
TeKiZeRo First Lieutenant 108 Rep 318 Posts Drives: '15 M3, '13 GT-R, '14 MP4-12C Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (3)	A proper ECU tune will give your car the maximum reliable power it can on the selected octane. Adding a piggyback will only push you beyond the that reliable power point and you'll probably end up taking out half your pistons with it.
	Appreciate 2 Quote

04-08-2015, 07:07 PM	#15
dmk08 Gone Fishin’ 7318 Rep 12,125 Posts Drives: Walks Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (19)	What if I daisy chain the ESS e-tronics and JB4.
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04-08-2015, 07:10 PM	#16
Ridicule23 Private First Class 41 Rep 164 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Brookville,NY iTrader: (0)	not necessarily , I have to talk to terry about an under map which should control boosts, and that will bring me to the next level of power
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04-08-2015, 09:24 PM	#19
sA x sKy Sameet 739 Rep 2,541 Posts Drives: AY/B M4 '15 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island, New York iTrader: (3) Garage List 2015 BMW M4 [0.00]	I don't see why it would be a bad idea since the N55/N55 have proven that stacking does work, especially when fuel comes to play. My N55 was stacked and I had no problems in 60k miles.
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04-08-2015, 09:27 PM	#20
8600RPM Lieutenant Colonel 657 Rep 1,749 Posts Drives: e92 m3 Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: AZ iTrader: (0)	I have no experience in this but how the heck is a jb4 needed if one can re program the tables in the ecu? That makes no sense at all
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04-08-2015, 09:36 PM	#21
War Tank New Member 2 Rep 10 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: M power iTrader: (0)	Great idea since you can just use the JB4 to control the boost.
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