[kent11202]

Serious question. Do they bother to see what owners actually think of their product and take those comments seriously or do they view themselves above all that kind of thing?

[m981addicts]

Originally Posted by kent11202

Serious question. Do they bother to see what owners actually think of their product and take those comments seriously or do they view themselves above all that kind of thing?

I'm sure Scott relays our collective sentiment.

[gomichaelkgo]

I imagine anyone with the insight to answer this factually has signed an NDA and is prohibited from posting anything here.

[gomichaelkgo]

I notice that one of my gripes with the F30 that I answered in the new buyer survey was addressed in the 2015 F30 -- the steering wheel heater indicator will now be repeated in the instrument cluster such that you can tell when it has been activated.

My old 5 series had a button on the front of the steering wheel with an LED indicator. So easy to tell when you had pushed the button all the way in.

[Blubaron79]

Yes. When I was at the autoweek 4 series event there was a team of two BMW media guys there and I asked them the same question. They say they do check up on the forums.

[newoldbeemer]

If I were top brass in BMW, I would be STUDYING these forums. And the LCI would come out with a hydraulic steering.

Please please someone at BMW read this.

[chrisny]

These forums represent what, 1% of their sales base? Paying attention to their most enthusiastic customers, sure. Studying every bit of praise and whining on here? Not likely..

Sorry to say, technology doesn't usually go backwards. The electric steering will get better, hydraulic isn't coming back.

[tuned2ride]

I can't believe that they ignore it.

[billiebob]

Sales are the most powerful feedback. If it doesn't sell, the market doesn't want it. If the individual market has to bear a few unprofitable models so an overall profitable production line can study running, fine too.

Cars are like the clothing industry but with a longer cycle time. Eventually demand drives builds. But on a 5 year timeline instead of 18 months.

[newoldbeemer]

Originally Posted by chrisny

These forums represent what, 1% of their sales base? Paying attention to their most enthusiastic customers, sure. Studying every bit of praise and whining on here? Not likely..

Sorry to say, technology doesn't usually go backwards. The electric steering will get better, hydraulic isn't coming back.

I think to some extent the feedback on these forums reflect the general population's thoughts too. I have two friends who own E90s, who are not enthusiasts at all. I mean, they don't even know what size wheels they have. But they drove my car and said prety much the same thing "it feels too soft to turn", "my car feels tighter", stuff like that.

Enthusiast or not, everyone likes the old steering setups. Nothing wrong with the new ones, but there's no reason to take out the part of the car that people love the most. I haven't heard anyone complain about how hard the steering was on the older BMWs.

Newer doesn't necessarily mean better. I hope BMW offers it as an option at least. (or make it standard on the msport - how cool would that be?)

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Of course they do. But customer opinion is a bell shaped curve & we are at one end of it not in the middle so the impact is less than the controlled focus groups etc.

Just changed from a 335is to a 435M-Sport & can see a lot of things they have changed for the better & a few I don't care for.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Of course they do.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

I think to some extent the feedback on these forums reflect the general population's thoughts too. I have two friends who own E90s, who are not enthusiasts at all. I mean, they don't even know what size wheels they have. But they drove my car and said prety much the same thing "it feels too soft to turn", "my car feels tighter", stuff like that.

Enthusiast or not, everyone likes the old steering setups. Nothing wrong with the new ones, but there's no reason to take out the part of the car that people love the most. I haven't heard anyone complain about how hard the steering was on the older BMWs.

Newer doesn't necessarily mean better. I hope BMW offers it as an option at least. (or make it standard on the msport - how cool would that be?)

Oh, I agree with you, I want the old steering back. I just don't think it will happen... Supposedly the electric is much better in the M3/M4. So I'm confident it'll get better over time. It has to.

[vrrooom]

Originally Posted by gomichaelkgo

I imagine anyone with the insight to answer this factually has signed an NDA and is prohibited from posting anything here.

Correct

[GOLFFRR]

I can 100% guarantee you they do. I have received a few emails from NA a couple times over the years on various things I have posted. If its something they don't want on there they let us know, so with that it def makes me believe they most likely have more then a few NA reps scanning the forums.

[fecurtis]

If BMW studied enthusiasts forums and took them as gospel, BMW would still be making NA I6 engines available only in 6 speed and probably in wagon form only.

A mechanical engineer I know used to joke "a company once listened heavily to what consumers wanted and the result was the Pontiac Aztek".

I'm sure they do take some feedback here seriously and into consideration, but as stated, anyone who could give a meaningful answer probably can't due to an NDA.

[carzaddict]

it would be stupid for them to NOT check the forums.

its incredible how much money they spend on market research and conducting focus groups. forums is the easiest and cheapest way to gather a greater quantity of data

[bonabono]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Sorry to say, technology doesn't usually go backwards. The electric steering will get better, hydraulic isn't coming back.

Cell phones have gone from big to small and back to big.
Laptops have gone from big to small to big to small.

HUD comes and goes and comes back.
Electric cars were more popular than gasoline in the beginning of modern vehicle era. Now they are coming back thanks to advanced electric technology.

Technologies do go backwards, accompanied by improvements over what had caused the decline before (you wouldn't call it "backwards" though of course).
Hydraulics could come back too.

[rjpeaks]

yes

i know on the audi side they do....

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Oh, I agree with you, I want the old steering back. I just don't think it will happen... Supposedly the electric is much better in the M3/M4. So I'm confident it'll get better over time. It has to.

The steering in my MY14 F30 is perfect.

This morbid clinging to the E90 steering is just childish.

.....and before you ask, Yes, I have driven both extensively.

By the way, the change isn't for the sake of change. Hydraulic steering results in parasitic drag via its pump. EPS does not.

Now back on topic......

[warmtoes]

I'm sure they do listen but I wouldn't expect them to take everything said here and implement it. As someone said before, customers can only tell you so much. I think Henry Ford said that if I asked customers what they wanted back in the early 1900's it wouldn't have been a mass produced car but a faster horse.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

The steering in my MY14 F30 is perfect.

This morbid clinging to the E90 steering is just childish.

.....and before you ask, Yes, I have driven both extensively.

By the way, the change isn't for the sake of change. Hydraulic steering results in parasitic drag via its pump. EPS does not.

Now back on topic......

I drove my dad"s E46 the other day and I have to agree that the F30 steering is much better. Did have an E90 loaner for 6 weeks once and don't think it better than the F30 either.