F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Tracking / Racing / Autocrossing > Circuit of the Americas-Track Guide/Video
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-26-2014, 03:10 PM   #1
utenigma
Lieutenant
United_States
162
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i 8SA M-Adaptive
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx (Frisco)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Circuit of the Americas-Track Guide/Video

Thought I'd try to write down what I learned at COTA this past weekend. COTA is a very special track, and there are lots of "correct" lines through it. Each classroom session we had we'd go over the various lines for this turn or that and generally they were somewhat vehicle specific.

For me in my car (F30 335i heavy, long, RWD, higher horse power) these lines seemed quick and more comfortable than some others we tried

My car had the following modifications. At a minimum if doing COTA I would suggest racing brake fluid and better than stock brake pads as there are four triple digit sections that feed right into to sub 40 mph haripins and not a lot of brake cool down time. I'll list my modifications in order of their effect of increasing the safety and enjoyment of my time on the track
  • Motul RBF600 (flushed 2 days before)
  • Porterfield R4-S brake pads (Part#'s AP1609, AP1610 both new)
  • Apex Arc-8 18x9 ET42, Hankook R-S3 265/35R18 - 5mm spacers in front to clear shocks, also new
  • H&R Sport Springs
  • Stock EDC dampers
  • Wagner Competition Intercooler (Watch the Amb air temp (blue) vs the intake Air (red) temp and see how fast it recovers - this will be awesome on a hot day)
  • ER Catless downpipe
  • ER Chargepipe
  • JB4 Stage 2 Tune (Turned off - Map 0 - Tried one turn with it in Map 2 on day 2 and turned it off. The torque delivery is too spikey - going to try to work with BMS to get a map that's boosts less @1500-3500 and more above 4500 than stock because mid band torque spikes mid corner aren't fun. More of a road-racing map than a drag racing map. I think a static boost target that indexes a value over the current DME target would be really tenable. I'm sure I'll have another thread on this later.)

Here's a video of this lap before I comment turn by turn



And a track map for overhead reference



Turn 1
Turn 1 is coming off the 2nd longest straight by the grandstands/pits. Hard to tell here, but the straight ends into a BIG hill (I'm not sure I could walk up it without using my hands). I would get to 120 on the strait then start braking ~150 sign. Turn 1 crests onto a table top and is a very sharp hairpin. Wait to start turning after cresting the edge of the table, turn in late, clip the apex, and track out to a little past mid track to help setup for turn 2


Turn 2
Get all the way left to setup, turn in a little later than you would think and get on the gas early, late turn in, late apex 2 then track out only to about the half-way point then unwind but continue the turn to the right to place the car about 3/4 of the way to the right edge.


Turn 3,4
There are a number of lines through the S's, this one felt best for me and I often caught cars under braking into 4. Try to cross under the bridge about 3/4 of the way to the right edge, then smoothly start your turn in to 3. This can be accomplished under power or with a slight lift depending on your car/confidence (I lifted corner 4 had eaten something like 60 cars on HPDE's last year - didn't want to be part of the total). The objective is to turn into the apex at 3, then straighten out the car pointed at the apex of 4, brake in a straight line (90 to about 60) apex 4 then head for the apex at 5 with a steady throttle.

Track out after the late apex only part way to setup for 3



Start your turn to 3 about 3/4 toward the right edge under the bridge


Straighten out to 4 and tap the brakes


Turn 5,6
Clip the apex of 5 and track out, this will lead the car to an apex at the start of turn 6, a large double-apex. This turn can be driven as constant radius. Start the turn very gradually (not hugging the curbing), look far ahead and hold your steering lock. The car will drift out to a little past 1/2 track then come in to apex the back side of 6. Some people drifted out again here, but I found it just as easy to hold the line near the curbing and setup for 7

Clip the apex at 5, and track all the way out


Start the turn in when you reach the curbing at the start of 6, keep your head up, this is constant radius


Allow the car to drift out to mid-track then bring it back - this should require no steering inputs, just a slow roll on the throttle


From here hold the curbing to setup for 7


Turn 7
7 looks like a 90 degree. I would tend to late turn in to apex here and try a smooth arc that would return me to the left side of the track to setup for turn 8. Lines through here were heavily debated


My line mostly looked like this after clipping the apex at 7.


Turn 8
Here late turn in to late apex from all the way left with two on the red worked best for me


Turn 9
This is the benefit of that line - a straight line from the apex of 8 to the apex of 9. This leads into a triple digit section of track and exit speed around 9 pays big dividends


Turn 10
This is a fast downhill blind sweeper - I'm coming from the curbing at the apex of 9, tracking all the way out then aiming for the apex of 10 that you can't see (literally, the apex becomes visible 1 second before you hit it). There is a bump on the track near the apex that would upset my car a bit, so I would lift just before the apex, bump, settle and throttle out of the corner. In a different car, maybe a better line would be wider missing the bump and full throttle the whole time. I had too much engine and not enough grip for that line. Some people might feel comfortable hammer down through the bump, some cars might deal with it better. Regardless finish by using the whole track.


Turn 11
Turn 11 leads into the longest straight, and it's a hairpin. Line up all the way right, take a SUPER late turn in, throttle on way before the apex and track out. I'm lined up too far left at turn-in and don't use the whole track in this picture b/c we were warned about fluid on the track on line leading into this corner. As this is one of the 100+ to 30 corners, we were doing our braking off line out of the fluid mess. If you watch the video, you'll notice I V-max the car about 1/2 way down the next straight - thanks for that 130mph limiter BMW


Turn 12
Yeah another hairpin! Not quite but much more than 90 degrees. I'd lift at about the 250, take a breath and brake starting slightly after the 200. All car dependent. I could have braked later but this wasn't a race - if you've got a 155 limiter, might wanna stretch it out a bit. Again late turn in here pays with higher exit speeds. Keeping you head up and focusing on track out makes it easier to judge


Turn 13,14,15
Here take your time getting over to the left, and get the car slowed down - if you did 12 right (I didn't on this lap, apexed too early) you'll have a lot of speed to shed before 13. I would treat 13&14 as a double apex under a lot of power. Late apex 13, track all the way out, start unwinding the wheel and feeding in throttle toward the apex at 14


Here we apex 14 then make a straight line across the rumble strips on the left toward 15 - aim for the yellow padding all the way in the corner


Approaching 15 aim at the yellow cushion, brake in a straight line then super late turn in (you'll feel like you're going the wrong way) then bring it round to clip the apex at 15 and track all the way out


Turn 16,17,18 Carousel
My absolute favorite part of the track. The three turns are one big constant radius turn - treat it like a triple apex (in out in out in out - seriously!) Bring the car back left, but not all the way, maybe a car width from the left side. Start your turn in early, go under the bridge about 3/4 of the way toward the inside, miss the apex at 16 shortly after the bridge by a half a car width - hold steering lock and roll on the throttle.


After missing the first apex by 1/2 a car width you'll track to a little less than mid-track


Back in to the curbing, manage the arc with your throttle


Drift out to a little past mid track then back to the apex


Then ride the curbing here - same radius then unwind and track out all the way left


Turn 19
You should be booking coming out of carousel (I would enter 16 at about 60 and come out of 18 at 90). This turn is blind but wider than it looks. I would tell my self "this is not 20 this is not 20" (20 is a hairpin) every time to not over slow the car. Coming out of 18 unwind the car pointed at the turn-in point for 19 on the right side of the track - brake in a straight line (not too much, it's a fast turn) then turn in early, apex early and let it track all the way out.


Turn 20
This always seemed harder than it looked - it's tighter than you expect, and important as hell because it leads to the second longest straight and the finish. Keep your head up, look down the track to the track-out. Late turn in and late apex. When I did it well, I was at 120 in the straight, poorly 105.


This lap ended under caution so I had to let up half way down. You can watch other laps (I put up all the laps I videoed) on this playlist.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...21QmCr9xbYBrQ1

Unfortunately my best session and best lap was in session 2 on Sunday and Dumb-ass me forgot to turn the GoPro on - I have telemetry and video out the back of the car, but nothing forward facing. Oh well - guess I'll need to go back next year

Comments/observations welcome - I'm still learning

Last edited by utenigma; 03-30-2014 at 02:20 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 04:53 PM   #2
jetbill
Captain
jetbill's Avatar
197
Rep
883
Posts

Drives: G80 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (7)

Exceptional post!
Thanks for the information.
__________________
.
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 05:28 PM   #3
utenigma
Lieutenant
United_States
162
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i 8SA M-Adaptive
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx (Frisco)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
Exceptional post!
Thanks for the information.
Thanks Bill - all done now
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 10:03 PM   #4
ronin951
First Lieutenant
ronin951's Avatar
44
Rep
349
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jacksonville, FL

iTrader: (0)

Great writeup and annotation One of the best I've seen...forum or otherwise.

I saw in another thread you had .15* toe out in front and .20* toe in rear. How did that work for you? I'm getting an alignment tomorrow for an event this weekend, so I'm very interested to hear how things went from that aspect.

Also, how did the rear end do through 3,4? I've found the F30 rear to be a little 'floaty' at high speed (80+). Maybe it's just my inputs though.

+1 on the BMS. I ended up removing/selling mine for this very reason. I'm curious what BMS comes back with, so keep us posted!
__________________
2013 EBII 328i M-Sport 6MT, M-Performance Brakes, M-Performance Suspension, APEX Arc-8 18 x 8.5 square, Pilot SS
1999 EB1 M3 - Bilstein PSS9, Vorshlag Camber Plates, Kosei K1, ZII Star Spec, PFC, gallon of distilled water.
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2014, 10:53 AM   #5
Philipangoo
Lieutenant
Philipangoo's Avatar
36
Rep
465
Posts

Drives: F30 335
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Dude this was a awesome write up. I have only been to MSR in Cresson in my car but I had a ton of fun. Hopefully I will be more experienced and able to run next time COTA opens to BMWCCA again.
__________________
13 335i Msport
89 E30 325is 5spd
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2014, 12:18 PM   #6
utenigma
Lieutenant
United_States
162
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i 8SA M-Adaptive
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx (Frisco)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipangoo View Post
Dude this was a awesome write up. I have only been to MSR in Cresson in my car but I had a ton of fun. Hopefully I will be more experienced and able to run next time COTA opens to BMWCCA again.
Are you going to the BMWCCA event at MSR Cresson in April? (26-27)
http://lscbmwcca.org/2014/02/25/spri...ation-weekend/

I'll be out there
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2014, 12:23 PM   #7
utenigma
Lieutenant
United_States
162
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i 8SA M-Adaptive
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx (Frisco)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin951 View Post
Great writeup and annotation One of the best I've seen...forum or otherwise.

I saw in another thread you had .15* toe out in front and .20* toe in rear. How did that work for you? I'm getting an alignment tomorrow for an event this weekend, so I'm very interested to hear how things went from that aspect.

Also, how did the rear end do through 3,4? I've found the F30 rear to be a little 'floaty' at high speed (80+). Maybe it's just my inputs though.

+1 on the BMS. I ended up removing/selling mine for this very reason. I'm curious what BMS comes back with, so keep us posted!
Yeah I've got the same alignment. Turn-in is quick with the slight toe-out, feels like it really helps in autocross during a slalom. I think when (if ever) my camberplates come in, I'll probably go with 0 toe in the front because the extra camber in the front is going to make the front-end more darty anyways.

But right now the car's really balanced on the square setup with that alignment - drifts nicely in sweepers, neither end seems to dominate the other.

It is a touch darty on the freeway - but nothing crazy. We're not talking about extreme alignment settings here

*EDIT* forgot to answer 3,4 - no issues with the rear - really stable through there.
Actually the way I was driving the S's, because I was straight-lining 3 and braking to the apex of 4 the problem would appear at 4,5 if there was one - but again it was very stable through there - I never got worried in that corner. The S's were very autocross like though so I may be numb to the feeling as I'm very accustom to this car's weight shifting back and forth quickly (as in slaloms, or high speed offset gates)

Last edited by utenigma; 03-27-2014 at 12:29 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2014, 12:05 AM   #8
Philipangoo
Lieutenant
Philipangoo's Avatar
36
Rep
465
Posts

Drives: F30 335
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

I will be in Tokyo for family and vacation for most of April. Don't think the wife will be too fond of me doing a track day that month lol. Which organization drivers edge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
Are you going to the BMWCCA event at MSR Cresson in April? (26-27)
http://lscbmwcca.org/2014/02/25/spri...ation-weekend/

I'll be out there
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2014, 02:41 PM   #9
surlynkid
Major
surlynkid's Avatar
113
Rep
1,470
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Utenigma,

That is not the line through 7-8. I know many people teach it, but it just is not the line. Look at the rubber marks on track out of 7 and entry braking into 8. They tell the story. Start right at entry to 7, turn in to clip the apex of 7 at full throttle. If done right, it will push you out to the tire marks at track out. Ride the right side into 8 and brake hard to hug the inside edge over the apex. 8 is a throw away. Carry the speed thru 6-7. Then back on full gas thru 9 until 11. All that arcing for 8 is not the quickest line unless you are a miata.

__________________
Stoptech 380mm/355mm | PFC08 / Pagid RS-29 | Akrapovic EVO - CF tips | Benvo Tune | MS UDP | AA air filter | MCS 2-way with 700/1000lb springs | Solid bushings and adjustable links | RD front swaybar | Apex EC-7 18x10 square 275/35-18 NT01 | Turner Race Studs | GT4 Brake Cooling | GT4 Power Steering Cooling | Alekshop Oil Cooler | Performance Steering Wheel | | CF Spoiler | Varis System 1 Full CF Diffuser | Extended Paddle Shifters | Schroth Quick Fit Pro | Turner Steering Rack Stops | Vorshlag Camber Plates

Last edited by surlynkid; 03-30-2014 at 03:28 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2014, 03:20 PM   #10
Greenkirby21
Vrooom :)
Greenkirby21's Avatar
United_States
313
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: C7 Stringray
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dream Land

iTrader: (1)

wow awesome post OP
__________________
2014 C7 Corvette Stringray - Laguna Blue - NPP Exhaust - Competition Seats
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2014, 04:58 PM   #11
utenigma
Lieutenant
United_States
162
Rep
573
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i 8SA M-Adaptive
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, Tx (Frisco)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
Utenigma,

That is not the line through 7-8. I know many people teach it, but it just is not the line. Look at the rubber marks on track out of 7 and entry braking into 8. They tell the story. Start right at entry to 7, turn in to clip the apex of 7 at full throttle. If done right, it will push you out to the tire marks at track out. Ride the right side into 8 and brake hard to hug the inside edge over the apex. 8 is a throw away. Carry the speed thru 6-7. Then back on full gas thru 9 until 11. All that arcing for 8 is not the quickest line unless you are a miata.

Thanks for the feedback. We tried that line a few times. My car's so heavy and unwilling to turn that I'd either have to slow down to what felt like parking lot speeds to stay attached to the right side around 8, or we'd go in too fast and end up completely out of position and have to give up 9. The only way that felt comfortable through there was to widen out 8 by approaching from the left side after 7 so that I could get back to the late apex at 8 lined up for 9 with the rear end settled so I could start accelerating.

Remember I'm in a close to 4k lb sedan with McPherson front suspension, basically no front camber and an open rear diff with half the horsepower to weight and likely half the braking potential of your GT3. That being said, you are a 1/2 second faster from 7 to 9 than I was indexing the video - I'm by no means the an expert and next time I'm out there I'll likely give that line another shot.

One that never felt right to me was 15. We always went straight along the left side then pointed into the corner and waited for a super late turn in, with the goal of having more speed in the next straight. Again my car doesn't turn on a dime, and I felt like we were wasting time driving in the wrong direction while creating what felt like a slower, tighter turn - all to have higher speed on straight that lasted all of 3 seconds. We didn't need any more speed in carousel, the car was on the limit of traction the whole way around feeding while feeding in throttle. I've seen some time trial guys just stay left around 15 and I might try that next time to see how it feels.

Last edited by utenigma; 03-30-2014 at 05:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2014, 07:18 PM   #12
surlynkid
Major
surlynkid's Avatar
113
Rep
1,470
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I am still not getting that set of turns how I want it. I need to drift out further in 6 to get a straighter shot to be on more gas into 7 before the quick uphill into 8 braking. I usually just never have the stones to do it. My wife was in an E92 M3 in your group, and she was about the only one running the line as was explained to me. Everyone was arcing 8, which freaks them out when it looks like she is about to t-bone you. She said she closed the gap on every car in that turn sequence. Of course her car is set up with brakes, camber, etc. Next time give it a try. Don't worry about how slow you have to go to hug 8. Carry all the speed from 6 into 8. Drop down to 2nd to power out of 9.
__________________
Stoptech 380mm/355mm | PFC08 / Pagid RS-29 | Akrapovic EVO - CF tips | Benvo Tune | MS UDP | AA air filter | MCS 2-way with 700/1000lb springs | Solid bushings and adjustable links | RD front swaybar | Apex EC-7 18x10 square 275/35-18 NT01 | Turner Race Studs | GT4 Brake Cooling | GT4 Power Steering Cooling | Alekshop Oil Cooler | Performance Steering Wheel | | CF Spoiler | Varis System 1 Full CF Diffuser | Extended Paddle Shifters | Schroth Quick Fit Pro | Turner Steering Rack Stops | Vorshlag Camber Plates
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2014, 07:21 PM   #13
surlynkid
Major
surlynkid's Avatar
113
Rep
1,470
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Definitely try to arc 15 more. Come in as planned but drift a little wider right, turn in a little earlier to clip the apex and track all the way out before setting up 16. You can go faster through the carousel if you keep it tighter. It falls away fast if you get too wide.
__________________
Stoptech 380mm/355mm | PFC08 / Pagid RS-29 | Akrapovic EVO - CF tips | Benvo Tune | MS UDP | AA air filter | MCS 2-way with 700/1000lb springs | Solid bushings and adjustable links | RD front swaybar | Apex EC-7 18x10 square 275/35-18 NT01 | Turner Race Studs | GT4 Brake Cooling | GT4 Power Steering Cooling | Alekshop Oil Cooler | Performance Steering Wheel | | CF Spoiler | Varis System 1 Full CF Diffuser | Extended Paddle Shifters | Schroth Quick Fit Pro | Turner Steering Rack Stops | Vorshlag Camber Plates
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST