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      02-18-2014, 09:39 AM   #1
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Question Oil change mileage?

I have a little over 14,000 miles on my 2013 328i (built 11/2012). it's running fine, and I haven't had to add any oil. The maintenance minder indicates that it won't call for the first oil change for another 2500 miles. I thought that the cutoff was 15,000 miles. Maybe I'm just driving it too gently? Anybody else see oil changes being extended past 15,000 miles?
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      02-18-2014, 09:56 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jelecroy
I have a little over 14,000 miles on my 2013 328i (built 11/2012). it's running fine, and I haven't had to add any oil. The maintenance minder indicates that it won't call for the first oil change for another 2500 miles. I thought that the cutoff was 15,000 miles. Maybe I'm just driving it too gently? Anybody else see oil changes being extended past 15,000 miles?
How long have you had it for? Over a year?
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      02-20-2014, 12:37 PM   #3
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I think that we picked up our car January 2 or 3rd. A week or so later I was on travel for about three months, so the car did not get driven much till mid-April.
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      02-20-2014, 12:59 PM   #4
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Circa 19k seems to be about right. .
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      02-21-2014, 07:53 AM   #5
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what are the chances of getting BMW to change the oil early? I've had my car almost 4 months and only have 2200 miles on it. i'll be over a year before i get to even 15K.

I can't imagine not changing the oil at least every 5K miles. even in my wife's MDX the oil life usually dips to 20% at about 5K miles.
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      02-21-2014, 08:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbnole View Post
what are the chances of getting BMW to change the oil early? I've had my car almost 4 months and only have 2200 miles on it. i'll be over a year before i get to even 15K.

I can't imagine not changing the oil at least every 5K miles. even in my wife's MDX the oil life usually dips to 20% at about 5K miles.
They will change it once a year regardless of the mileage.

You could also just pay to have it changed early if you wanted to.
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      02-21-2014, 08:09 AM   #7
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Actually, the manual says that they will change the oil when the car says it needs changing (more or less 15,000 miles) or at TWO years.
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      02-21-2014, 08:27 AM   #8
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I was told last week it's based on your driving and other conditions the car can identify. It's condition based service not mileage based. Pretty smart if it is actually monitoring the proper conditions.

I think we can all agree if your using your car for track day fun every weekend vs. hwy commuting to work every day there is a massive difference in wear and tear.
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      02-21-2014, 08:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jelecroy View Post
Actually, the manual says that they will change the oil when the car says it needs changing (more or less 15,000 miles) or at TWO years.
Ask your SA what their policy is.

There have been many reports of people having the dealer change the oil after a year regardless of mileage or the CBS state.
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      02-21-2014, 09:32 AM   #10
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there is no way in hell i am waiting a year for an oil change. i'll pay for the change early most likely. there goes $100
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      02-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mtbnole View Post
there is no way in hell i am waiting a year for an oil change. i'll pay for the change early most likely. there goes $100
Why? It's what BMW says is OK. The engines are designed for this, do you know something BMW's engineers do not know?
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      02-22-2014, 08:16 PM   #12
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Why? It's what BMW says is OK. The engines are designed for this, do you know something BMW's engineers do not know?
Here we go again. Anybody going well over 5K miles on a single oil change is doing harm. The recommended intervals are most likely set by the bean counters, as opposed to the engineers. I mean BMW seriously up and changes their recommended intervals by 5,000 miles!?!? That is so fucked up, and obviously a decision made in the boardroom, not the garage.

Do you think there is something magical about BMW's engines, or oil? It's the same physics as any other application. I just did my cars first oil change today, at about 3100 miles, and the oil was black. Now this is not surprising to me, but if you really think one round of oil is fine to drive 15,000 miles on this should concern you and make you think twice.

Seriously guys, if you bought your car and you care about it, do your oil at least every 5K miles. If BMW's new interval is really 10K miles, then I plan to split that in 2 by doing my own at every 5K. After my warranty is up, it will go up to every 3K as I've done on my previous cars. All of which ran like gems from beginning to end btw.
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      02-22-2014, 09:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
Here we go again. Anybody going well over 5K miles on a single oil change is doing harm. The recommended intervals are most likely set by the bean counters, as opposed to the engineers. I mean BMW seriously up and changes their recommended intervals by 5,000 miles!?!? That is so fucked up, and obviously a decision made in the boardroom, not the garage.

Do you think there is something magical about BMW's engines, or oil? It's the same physics as any other application. I just did my cars first oil change today, at about 3100 miles, and the oil was black. Now this is not surprising to me, but if you really think one round of oil is fine to drive 15,000 miles on this should concern you and make you think twice.

Seriously guys, if you bought your car and you care about it, do your oil at least every 5K miles. If BMW's new interval is really 10K miles, then I plan to split that in 2 by doing my own at every 5K. After my warranty is up, it will go up to every 3K as I've done on my previous cars. All of which ran like gems from beginning to end btw.
You must drive by your name here. The 30 yrs I have been changing oil I have never seen "black" oil at 3k mi. I used to be very loyal to Toyota before purchasing my F30 and my wife's e92. Toyota had a reco of 10k on my Tundra. My Corolla I pushed to 15k once and the oil still wasn't heavily discolored.

I have always used Castrol Syntec for as long as I remember.

Most synthetics are most harmful within 3~5k as this is when the initial breaking down of the oil happens and is most abrasive. You don't reap the benefits of a synthetic below this mileage and end up doing more harm.

I am a very conservative driver and baby my cars 95% of the time. I have been told my oil change interval is 15k
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      02-23-2014, 02:37 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by f30luxline View Post
You must drive by your name here. The 30 yrs I have been changing oil I have never seen "black" oil at 3k mi. I used to be very loyal to Toyota before purchasing my F30 and my wife's e92. Toyota had a reco of 10k on my Tundra. My Corolla I pushed to 15k once and the oil still wasn't heavily discolored.

I have always used Castrol Syntec for as long as I remember.

Most synthetics are most harmful within 3~5k as this is when the initial breaking down of the oil happens and is most abrasive. You don't reap the benefits of a synthetic below this mileage and end up doing more harm.

I am a very conservative driver and baby my cars 95% of the time. I have been told my oil change interval is 15k
So you are saying that you do harm by putting fresh oil in a car? I've heard all the arguments about how the oil properties are supposed to change (and improve) over time but I dunno; I tend to trust what I've experienced before some paper science. Even if I would tend to believe it; I do not discredit science at all. Maybe you are right about your observation on my name. I don't drive like an idiot though. I drive smooth, and have fun when I feel like it. I got a 335 rather than a 328 because I like performance. If the truth shows that a BMW cant handle some enthusiast driving then maybe BMW is not for me and I'll make that decision at some point later.

My first new car was a Toyota Celica GTS which I ran to just under 100K miles before I sold it. I did Mobil 1 oil changes every 3K miles, and it ran like silk on the day I sold it.

Next car was an Evo X and the same deal. Not quite as many miles but I did 3K oil changes and never had any engine issues. Maybe you can chalk it up to a matter of habit if you want to but it seems to work for me. I am no engineer, but i'll be damned if I would bet that running 15K miles is safer than running 5K on one oil change.

At this point I know that engine oil will be black by the 3K mark on a Pontiac, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and a BMW. Yes... I'll continue to change my oil well ahead of the "recommended" 10 thousand mile mark now and for the foreseeable future.
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      02-23-2014, 10:04 PM   #15
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My SA said that they recommend a default oil change every year or 15,000, but it is condition based service. So they changed mine at about 11,000.
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      02-24-2014, 12:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
I tend to trust what I've experienced before some paper science.
What you've experienced is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would hope to shout that if you change the oil at 3k or 5k that your car engine will run like a gem. But it doesn't necessarily mean that changing the oil at mfr specified intervals is going to reduce the service life of the engine, or make it run less gem-like (whatever that means). If you have credible evidence that the latter is so, you'd be doing us all a great service by posting a link. Maybe send it to BMW AG as well. Their maintenance schedules are not prescribed by bean counters (a link for that?). They spend a pretty penny at several independent testing labs like this one developing their maintenance routines - - http://www.isp-testing.com/en/. And in the case of lube maintenance, it begins with BMW engine development engineers working as a team with their lubricant partner (Castrol in our case) and their tribologists and lube formulators.
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      02-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by m6pwr View Post
What you've experienced is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would hope to shout that if you change the oil at 3k or 5k that your car engine will run like a gem. But it doesn't necessarily mean that changing the oil at mfr specified intervals is going to reduce the service life of the engine, or make it run less gem-like (whatever that means). If you have credible evidence that the latter is so, you'd be doing us all a great service by posting a link. Maybe send it to BMW AG as well. Their maintenance schedules are not prescribed by bean counters (a link for that?). They spend a pretty penny at several independent testing labs like this one developing their maintenance routines - - http://www.isp-testing.com/en/. And in the case of lube maintenance, it begins with BMW engine development engineers working as a team with their lubricant partner (Castrol in our case) and their tribologists and lube formulators.
Well I wish I had solid proof, but sorry, I'm just a regular dude giving his opinion. I don't think that there is some conspiracy to prevent cars from running well beyond BMW's warranty coverage, but I do think that there is a lot more financial consideration that goes into how often they give away free service than some of us here seem to think.

Here is a link to Castrol recommending oil changes every 3K miles or 3 months. They give no alternative recommendation on synthetic oils so the ultimate impression that you get from this is those numbers are their standard no matter the oil type. Yes they do say that you should check with your auto makers recommendations (because it could vary slightly).

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=6004639

Mobil 1's take on the situation (you can easily search this) is that the intervals are anywhere between 3 and 15K. They state that on some newer cars you can feel safe running to a recommended 15k by the manufacturer. Read between the lines and I take that as... even though 15K miles is a lot to run on, you can feel safe when using our product because its so great. One thing I will say for sure is I don't read this and get the understanding that all quality synthetics perform best when used for 15K+ miles and if you change it too soon it's actually worse. These are people that make more money the more we have to buy oil.

One more, Toyota recommends 5K mile changes when using 5w-30 synthetic. Yes, it varies from car to car, but seriously what is going on inside a BMW engine that could be so different that all of a sudden synthetic oils perform better when you go over 10 thousand miles or whatever?

I think the bottom line is really how you drive. If your car never sees more than 3500 RPM's then yea maybe you can feel safer going to 10K. Anybody that has a car with some performance, and knows how to use it, not so much.
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      02-24-2014, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
Here we go again. Anybody going well over 5K miles on a single oil change is doing harm. The recommended intervals are most likely set by the bean counters, as opposed to the engineers. I mean BMW seriously up and changes their recommended intervals by 5,000 miles!?!? That is so fucked up, and obviously a decision made in the boardroom, not the garage.

Do you think there is something magical about BMW's engines, or oil? It's the same physics as any other application. I just did my cars first oil change today, at about 3100 miles, and the oil was black. Now this is not surprising to me, but if you really think one round of oil is fine to drive 15,000 miles on this should concern you and make you think twice.

Seriously guys, if you bought your car and you care about it, do your oil at least every 5K miles. If BMW's new interval is really 10K miles, then I plan to split that in 2 by doing my own at every 5K. After my warranty is up, it will go up to every 3K as I've done on my previous cars. All of which ran like gems from beginning to end btw.
Unless you are doing Blackstone oil analysis on your car, I'm afraid your are just speculating. This was a source of constant debate on the GTI forums, a car which also calls for 10k intervals. I used to do my own at 5k and then let the dealer pick up the tab at 10k. I was a staunch supporter of 5k intervals, even on modern synthetic, until I paid to have the analysis done. I did Blackstone labs analysis twice: once at a 5k interval and once at a 10k interval and the results surprised me. Without getting too technical, which I am happy to do once I get home and dig up the report, it showed that 5k was too early and that after 9600 miles my oil was in surprisingly good shape. Blackstone's recommendation based on what they saw was that I was fine to continue with the 10k intervals. MY driving is about 60/40 hwy/city in L.A. county with a fair amount of stop and go.

I realize we are talking about different cars but unless you are going to start paying to have your oil analyzed to see whats really going on, it's all old fashioned speculation and your claims have little basis in fact or whether or not the oil is still doing it's job at X miles. In Germany these cars do 15k mile oil change intervals all day long. Granted conditions are better, but still.

BTW, your oil turns 'black' shortly after an oil change, regardless. That is not an indicator of anything
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      02-24-2014, 01:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
Unless you are doing Blackstone oil analysis on your car, I'm afraid your are just speculating. This was a source of constant debate on the GTI forums, a car which also calls for 10k intervals. I used to do my own at 5k and then let the dealer pick up the tab at 10k. I was a staunch supporter of 5k intervals, even on modern synthetic, until I paid to have the analysis done. I did Blackstone labs analysis twice: once at a 5k interval and once at a 10k interval and the results surprised me. Without getting too technical, which I am happy to do once I get home and dig up the report, it showed that 5k was too early and that after 9600 miles my oil was in surprisingly good shape. Blackstone's recommendation based on what they saw was that I was fine to continue with the 10k intervals. MY driving is about 60/40 hwy/city in L.A. county with a fair amount of stop and go.

I realize we are talking about different cars but unless you are going to start paying to have your oil analyzed to see whats really going on, it's all old fashioned speculation and your claims have little basis in fact or whether or not the oil is still doing it's job at X miles. In Germany these cars do 15k mile oil change intervals all day long. Granted conditions are better, but still.

BTW, your oil turns 'black' shortly after an oil change, regardless. That is not an indicator of anything
What exactly does "too early" mean? Is it bad, or just not necessary? Oil gets black as contaminants build up. Oil getting black is basically a sign that your detergent oil is doing its job. I Get that, and these containments may apparently not pose much threat to an engine in the early stages but it cant be freaking better for it. So yes, just because oil is black does not mean it needs to be changed, but it is valid as one of the signs of its current status. As far as oil getting black right after a change, I don't buy that. I've taken samples of oil from cars before that had plenty of miles on the clock and still had a nice translucent amber color. One other factor is I know these cars to be driven mostly very easily, but mostly stop and go traffic. So again, style of driving matters.

You are right, I am just speculating, but dare I call it an "educated speculation"!? I think it's great that you did that analysis and I believe it, but it does not say anything about it being better for a car to go 15 thousand miles on oil instead of 5. That's the stuff I just don't buy which I've seen people preach.

If Castrol has an official report that says the properties in their synthetic oils need a sort of break in period (which is apparently an insane 3 to 5 thousand miles) then I'll start changing my thought process. Actually, I'd probably stop using that brand oil if that were true.
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      02-24-2014, 03:28 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=RedlinePSI;15497996]
Here is a link to Castrol recommending oil changes every 3K miles or 3 months. They give no alternative recommendation on synthetic oils so the ultimate impression that you get from this is those numbers are their standard no matter the oil type. Yes they do say that you should check with your auto makers recommendations (because it could vary slightly).

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=6004639

Well kudos to you Redline. You really did dig deep into the archives. I just emailed the Castrol chat line about their 3k advice -

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'AL2'
AL2: Thank you for contacting Castrol North America. How may I assist you today?
Richard: I'm looking at one of your DIY tips on how to change your oil. I can't believe what I'm reading. The tips says I should change my oil every 3000 mi or every three months. This DIY tip must be a relic of the archives decades old. Is it Castrol's current advice with some of your modern synthetics? I have a 2014 BMW and the mfr says to change the oil (Castrol by the way) evry 10k miles. What gives?
AL2: Castrol motor oil should be changed as recommended by your car owner’s manual or the oil life indicator for the type of service (normal or severe) that the vehicle is being operated under.
AL2: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Richard
Richard: My recommendation would be to eliminate the 3k business. I don't have all the details readily at hand, but the Federal Trade Commission stopped one of the quick change franchises from advertising that it's necessary to change the oil every 3k miles. The bit about following the mfr recommended intervals is solid advice.
AL2: You have reached the Automotive and heavy Duty product technical forum however your satisfaction with our product is very important to us and we will be sure to forward your comments to our Marketing Departments.
AL2: You might like to visit www.mycastrolcrew.com to find out more about the Castrol Crew Loyalty Program for Castrol product users. This program allows you to earn Castrol Credits which can be redeemed towards Castrol branded merchandise and the website keeps you up to date regarding specific Castrol offers exclusive racing content. You may also join discussions with like-minded Castrol fans!
AL2: Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the engine manufacturer for the recommended SAE grade and API rating(s) specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner’s manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

Translation: BMW knows their s**t.
Bottom line: You are not doing anything to prolong the life of your engine by changing the oil every 3k/5k, whatever. But like the bumper sticker says, "if it feels good, do it!".

PS: Notice Castrol chat is forwarding my comments to their Marketing Dept - - which may be where the 3k tip originated - - lol.
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      02-24-2014, 04:59 PM   #21
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[QUOTE=m6pwr;15499147]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
Here is a link to Castrol recommending oil changes every 3K miles or 3 months. They give no alternative recommendation on synthetic oils so the ultimate impression that you get from this is those numbers are their standard no matter the oil type. Yes they do say that you should check with your auto makers recommendations (because it could vary slightly).

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=6004639

Well kudos to you Redline. You really did dig deep into the archives. I just emailed the Castrol chat line about their 3k advice -

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'AL2'
AL2: Thank you for contacting Castrol North America. How may I assist you today?
Richard: I'm looking at one of your DIY tips on how to change your oil. I can't believe what I'm reading. The tips says I should change my oil every 3000 mi or every three months. This DIY tip must be a relic of the archives decades old. Is it Castrol's current advice with some of your modern synthetics? I have a 2014 BMW and the mfr says to change the oil (Castrol by the way) evry 10k miles. What gives?
AL2: Castrol motor oil should be changed as recommended by your car owner’s manual or the oil life indicator for the type of service (normal or severe) that the vehicle is being operated under.
AL2: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Richard
Richard: My recommendation would be to eliminate the 3k business. I don't have all the details readily at hand, but the Federal Trade Commission stopped one of the quick change franchises from advertising that it's necessary to change the oil every 3k miles. The bit about following the mfr recommended intervals is solid advice.
AL2: You have reached the Automotive and heavy Duty product technical forum however your satisfaction with our product is very important to us and we will be sure to forward your comments to our Marketing Departments.
AL2: You might like to visit www.mycastrolcrew.com to find out more about the Castrol Crew Loyalty Program for Castrol product users. This program allows you to earn Castrol Credits which can be redeemed towards Castrol branded merchandise and the website keeps you up to date regarding specific Castrol offers exclusive racing content. You may also join discussions with like-minded Castrol fans!
AL2: Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the engine manufacturer for the recommended SAE grade and API rating(s) specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner’s manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

Translation: BMW knows their s**t.
Bottom line: You are not doing anything to prolong the life of your engine by changing the oil every 3k/5k, whatever. But like the bumper sticker says, "if it feels good, do it!".

PS: Notice Castrol chat is forwarding my comments to their Marketing Dept - - which may be where the 3k tip originated - - lol.
haha ok good stuff. I'm gonna go with the feel good 5K changes and do the BMW service at 10. Any chance I can get to hang out in the garage and have a beer I take. Let's not forget that BMW did just drop their recommendations by 5 grand recently for reasons unknown, so in addition this will give a nice buffer so I don't end up like those who followed the older 15K rule, wondering what the hell is going on.

BTW I have a question. Does BMW do the services at the round numbers (10,20,30…etc) no matter what, or is it all actually based on what the CBS says only?

Edit: From re-reading above it seems that it is based on the CBS system and not mileage. Still, i'd like a confirmation (I know, ill call my CA) that they will not do my services at every 10K because the program might say its not ready. That is pretty messed up if that's the case.

Last edited by RedlinePSI; 02-24-2014 at 05:05 PM..
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      02-24-2014, 06:12 PM   #22
m6pwr
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Your n55 and most other BMW engines have an oil life monitor (BMW calls it an oil condition sensor) in the sump. Its data will factor into the ecu decision of when it tells you to do an oil service. If you do lots of cold starts, short trips where the oil never fully warms up, and lots of idling or stop and go traffic, lots of fuel dilution, it will probably tell you to do an oil change before 10k miles.

The olm actually measures nothing more than the electrical conductivity of the oil. Some of the latest olms are really trick - - they include a tiny sonar that transmits sound waves thru the oil which in turn is used by the olm to measure oil viscosity. How slick is that! The electrical conductivity of the oil is affected by build up of wear metal particles, acidity/base balance, and other "aging" factors. BMW correlates the conductivity data in its cars with actual measured oil condition/oil analysis done in both over-the-road testing and in labs like ISP. I've been told much of this in email "conversations" with a euro-based lubrication engineer who has worked for both Castrol and Mobil, and at varying times with BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes in the development work I just described. This stuff is science, Redline, not marketing or the smoke of bean counters.

I'm not really trying to convince you or to "convert" you to follow BMW's oil change intervals as much as I'm providing advice or what I know to the folks reading this thread who would like to follow BMWs lead. In my opinion they are quite safe in following the CBS service intervals. I have never seen any credible data that indicates otherwise (e.g., SAE studies, lube mfrs studies, oem studies, studies or papers done by lubrication engineers and tribologists, or even used oil analysis reports posted by owners on forums like this).

Why has BMW shortened the oci in the U.S. to 10k from 15k for the same families of engines? The only thing that's significantly different between euro driving and U.S. driving conditions, that I can think of, is fuel quality - - specifically sulfur content which can affect build up of acids in the oil. Maybe BMW wants to give more safety margin to compensate for the crappy gas and diesel (most particularly the diesel) we get here. Or maybe they finally caved to what seems to be the innate fear we have here of the extended oci of 15k.
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