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      12-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #1
paddy335
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Americans: How many people genuinely cross-shop M3 to Mustang/Corvette etc?

There is a lot of ongoing conjecture on the forum about the virtues of different American competitors to the M3/4, from a performance/price ratio perspective.

I am sure many other forum members from markets where Mustangs/Corvettes/Camaros etc are not a consideration when shopping for an M3/4 are interested to know just how many Americans genuinely cross-shop these cars.

Is it a genuine mass-market cross-shop, a much more niche one, or just interweb BS?
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      12-09-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
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I like the new vette a lot and the mustang will be a great car no doubt, but the vette is missing two seats for me and my brother is more of the mustang guy in the family so I'm sure I'll probably get some seat time. I truly enjoy my M and yes both the vette and mustang are tremendous bargains, but I'll most likely be shopping for a sedan this time around. I've always liked the idea of a very capable sedan; I think the f80 looks great and I'm sure it will deliver on performance, too. Also, the w205 c63 is very much on my radar. As it has been said on here countless times, it's a very exciting time for car people!
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      12-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #3
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My last two cars: Challenger SRT8 and a 997.2 GT3...

Yeah I cross shop lol
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      12-09-2013, 03:02 PM   #4
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I'd consider the vette if 50,000 people in the NJ / PA wouldnt own one in the next year. No way would I buy a Ford after my last rental!!!
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      12-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #5
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I cross-shop the M3 with everything from Audi to Subaru, including the Mustang and Corvette.

Now, granted, I did not cross-shop the previous Corvette or Mustang. But neither did I cross-shop the ~2003-2007 Cadillac CTS until the revised version in ~2008.

In 2003, the Corvette did not appeal to me. The Mustang did not appeal to me. The Cadillac CTS did not appeal to me. They had uglier exterior designs and crappy interiors compared to the e46 m3.

Now fast forward 10 years and the gap is far smaller. No longer do I feel that an extra $30k on the m3 (compared to the Mustang) is justified the interior and exterior looks alone, let alone the refined mechanicals.

Nowadays, those gaps are much smaller - and therefore I cross-shop them.

But, for another example, Subaru is pretty much off my list. Their new enthusiasts products do not excite me - at all.
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      12-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
No way would I buy a Ford after my last rental!!!
You probably didn't get the best experience in a rental as they don't often offer you the optioned car you'd actually buy. Well that and chances are other people have had their way with the car.

If I based my experience with loaner BMWs on whether I purchased one, I'd never have purchased one.
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      12-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
There is a lot of ongoing conjecture on the forum about the virtues of different American competitors to the M3/4, from a performance/price ratio perspective.

I am sure many other forum members from markets where Mustangs/Corvettes/Camaros etc are not a consideration when shopping for an M3/4 are interested to know just how many Americans genuinely cross-shop these cars.

Is it a genuine mass-market cross-shop, a much more niche one, or just interweb BS?
I think what these threads all demonstrate is that lots of different folks own M3s for lots of different reasons.

Some like to race them, some don't. Some like to mod them, some don't. Some like owning a BMW, some just want the performance. Some like 2 drs, some need 4. Some people struggle to afford it, some don't.

The point is, the M3 appeals to a wider variety of buyers than most other "sports" cars. That's why we are willing to cross-shop with cars that might not seem directly comparable.
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      12-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #8
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I will be the first one to admit that I am not really cross shopping any other cars. I have owned a 335i and an M3 now and I have to say, that type of driving and daily usability is exactly what I am looking for! For what I want, the M3/M4 is the perfect balance. I have two friends who recently jumped from BMW to an Audi S4 & RS5 and they love them but me, I just cant see myself enjoying any other car, community, and brand as much as I do BMW.

The only reason I would shy away is more out of necessity rather than choice. For example, I just traded in my M3 for a 2014 Jeep SRT because we needed two cars that would be good in the snow and the wife needed something she could drive. I immediately regretted that decision and now the wife is getting her a new car and I am on the list for the M4.
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      12-09-2013, 03:44 PM   #9
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2014 Corvette / 2014 M3 - looking forward to seeing both...
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      12-09-2013, 03:44 PM   #10
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the same day I was offered to buy the Dealer Launch car for the M4 I went and took a look at the C7. I drove it and gave it a long detailed look inside and out. This is the first vette I have ever given serious consideration.

Im going to be honest, the interior and exterior are sharp and aggressive. Chevy has really stepped up the quality of the interior and looks great. the car drove and sounded amazing and a fully loaded top of the line trim model with the competition lightweight seat was offered to me for $71K. It gave me serious pause and would have the car by February. we are kidding ourselves if anyone thinks this car is not a direct competitor to M4.

The minuses?
1- As big as the car was on the outside the cabin felt really snug and small, visibility was horrible around the car when driving,
2- Lack of backseats on the coupe is a plus for M4 to take extra people in a pinch,
3- There will be a gazillion folks in the tri-state area buying up this car and they will be a dime a dozen in the parking lot and on roads
4- No ED experience (yeah i know)
5- As nice as it was it just did not have the premium feeling of the BMW. its not just about fit and finish but the actual feel of the car when driving. The Vette was more of a raw beast to me compared to a E92 DCT.
6- I can use the M4 for business, pleasure, family trips, and track days as needed. Cant do this on a Vette.

So in the end yeah My pre-order is still ready to go the moment ordering opens up for M4.
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      12-09-2013, 03:54 PM   #11
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I really couldn't drive a Mustang or a Corvette, socially speaking. I think you need to be born before 1965 to do the Vette. Mustang is kind of a teenager's car, to me.
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      12-09-2013, 04:11 PM   #12
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I normally wouldn't, but with the C7 getting as much praise as it is, I'll be looking long and hard at the Z06 when that gets announced.

And I normally wouldn't bat an eye at a Mustang, but if the 2015+ Boss 302 really does have a flat-plane NA V8, then how could anyone ignore that?

Ultimately, I want a dedicated performance car. Mentally I have a hard time taking a step back from a V8 to two less cylinders unless that car is going to be beastly, but BMW tries to make the M3 all things to all people.
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      12-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #13
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I don't care about the brand imaging, but I don't see anything in the domestic manufacturers' line-ups that interests me. the cars that have the performance I'm seeking are either impractical (Corvette, with no back seats) or have poor styling inside and out (the CTS-V, Camaro or Stang... visibility isn't great in the Camaro either).

I'd love to buy American, but right now the only American vehicles I'm interested are the pickup trucks and possibly the Wrangler Unlimited (if they ever give it a V8 from the factory). that said, I'm dying to test drive the Z28 Camaro as a possible weekend and track car.
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      12-09-2013, 05:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
Is it a genuine mass-market cross-shop, a much more niche one, or just interweb BS?
With such coarse-grained breakdown of possibilities, I think it is pretty safe to say the middle choice is the right one.

Clearly BMW is luxury brand (in North America, anyway) and they target consumers who are willing to pay a premium for a product that, when you put emotions aside and just consider practical concerns, is a functional stand-in for your typical Honda Accord or Ford Explorer. It is one part desire to be pampered and one part desire to be a member of a more exclusive club.

M products add performance to the equation. Once you do that, you start to draw from a pool of people who may not normally consider buying the 328i over the Cam-cord, for example. They make the leap to the luxury car mainly because it is the price of entry to one of the highest performing vehicles on the market. Now this doesn't mean that the other features are completely superfluous, it just means they aren't major selling points for these particular buyers. Naturally, then, if another product enters the marketplace with similar performance but without the bells and whistles these people take notice and start weighing their options.

For my part I will say that I'd seriously entertain the Mustang but I have reservations about it lacking one of my favorite performance features of my M3 - the DCT transmission. But it still warrants a test drive.

By the way, nevermind the Mustang which carries at least a reputable brand name, I would absolutely plunk down $50k today for a purpose-built lightweight sport coupe or roadster from any manufacturer anywhere in world if it was built on OEM E92 M3 drivetrain and chassis components. I don't care if the car is built in China, has an interior on par with a 1980 Pinto, and only comes in bright purple or mauve.
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      12-09-2013, 05:29 PM   #15
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Not me..... I've had 6 muscle cars in the past and I am over the whole thing.

I am currently cross shopping M4 to 997TT, Audi Rs5 and may be to e63 AMG-s..... All being new cars minus the 997.

I just don't ever see myself going back to domestic cars.....only exception is CTS-V but even then I would go with Merc.
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      12-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #16
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I am considering all of the ones mentioned. Vette and Mustang performance for the price are too good to ignore and I like the improvements in styling, though they're still not where I'd like them to be. But for the price difference, yes, absolutely, I am cross shopping.
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      12-09-2013, 07:21 PM   #17
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I'm cross shopping Audi, Caddy. That's it. I need 4 actual doors and seats, and I won't shop Merc.

If I were going for an M4, it might be different, but if I needed no back seat, I'm not sure I'd even consider the M4. I'd go straight for the 'Vette or a 911.
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      12-09-2013, 07:25 PM   #18
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I'm currently looking at the new 2015 mustang, GTR, the vette and the M3. The one upper hand is that the m3 has four doors. I will never track any of these cars so laps are not an issue for me. Most of my "competitive" racing will probably be in straight lines...
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      12-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #19
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cars i considered before going with M3.

Zl1, GT500, and M3, RS5.

i like the M3. for things beyond performance. ALmost got a GT500 though, the raw power ....

but just couldn't take the plastic
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      12-09-2013, 10:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
I really couldn't drive a Mustang or a Corvette, socially speaking. I think you need to be born before 1965 to do the Vette. Mustang is kind of a teenager's car, to me.
Well I'm glad not to be burdened or concerned with what others may think of me in my choice of wheels. So glad that I can buy what I want without all that baggage
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      12-10-2013, 03:00 AM   #21
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American cars are pretty amazing performance per dollar these days and I would have ended up with a Boss 302 if BMW FS was not running such an epic lease program on the E89 Z4 when I was shopping

I will definitely cross shop again. I like BMW but not enough to completely ignore more performance for less money
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      12-10-2013, 03:25 AM   #22
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Post up a poll to accompany your question. Then we will see what the somewhat narrow cross section of f80post.com members think...
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