[marlie]

hi guys just wondering if anyone has got procede or xede in the uk yet? any good? lot of difference?

thankyou

MArlon

[dxb335d]

i know of one UK individual who visits this site, he is great guy!! he is making the trip for the ''Cambs meet'' thats the only clue im giving

ill let him step forward


Carlos

[tsopanakos]

I, procede since Last January.

V2 comes in a few days.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by tsopanakos

I, procede since Last January.

V2 comes in a few days.

your not in the Uk tho are? only for a short time?

any probS? how many miles covered with it?

ever get down the strip?

[tsopanakos]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

your not in the Uk tho are? only for a short time?

any probS? how many miles covered with it?

ever get down the strip?

I have to work here in UK for a few years.

Car was ordered in US and delivered here in London.

Procede was installed when the car had 1.800 miles and now has 7.500 miles.

No problems at all, even when I drove last summer from London to Athnes and back.

[2GPP]

Originally Posted by marlie

hi guys just wondering if anyone has got procede or xede in the uk yet? any good? lot of difference?

thankyou

MArlon

No but looking around at options. There is the Hartge (Birds UK) ECU remap and also the following: http://www.carevolution.co.uk/bmw.php
DMS still can not offer a remap for the 335i.

[Serjames]

Think I might get one....

[G33]

SJ thought u had one matey?!

[Yahoo]

I wouldn't touch the Birds remap. They actually solder new components the the stock ecu & are very expensive. This would definately be a case of bye bye warrenty.

Having read a lot on the forced induction forum the V2 Procede is very appealing. Seems to have solved the boost target issue of V1 and appears to provide stock like power delivery, just a whole lot more of it - excess of 400 bhp. I expect the V2 to be available to non V1 customers in a month or so, if this is the case, I will be placing an order in early December.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by G33

SJ thought u had one matey?!

he does

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

I wouldn't touch the Birds remap. They actually solder new components the the stock ecu & are very expensive. This would definately be a case of bye bye warrenty.

Having read a lot on the forced induction forum the V2 Procede is very appealing. Seems to have solved the boost target issue of V1 and appears to provide stock like power delivery, just a whole lot more of it - excess of 400 bhp. I expect the V2 to be available to non V1 customers in a month or so, if this is the case, I will be placing an order in early December.

Sorry but I have to correct you on this one - the Birds remap (or Hartge remap) is actually a fully reprogrammed ECU done in Germany. The whole ECU is taken out of the car and shipped back to Germany, where new codes are programmed in, then the ECU is sent back to the UK and installed. The whole process takes 5 days. There is NO soldering whatsoever on the ECU. Yes, the ECU upgrade is expensive, but then they do guarantee the engine if it fails as a result of the ECU upgrade.

Just to clarify - I am not working for Birds, and neither am I a Procede detractor. I post the facts and hope that the UK forum does not degenerate into a competitor-remap-bashing facsimile of the US forum.

Oh, and just to let everyone know, Mike at DMS has I believe now sold his 335i and has given up trying to reprogram the ECU. Currently, the only company to offer a reprogrammed ECU is Birds/Hartge - all others are add-on boxes a la Procede etc.

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

There is NO soldering whatsoever on the ECU. Yes, the ECU upgrade is expensive, but then they do guarantee the engine if it fails as a result of the ECU upgrade.

This may well be the case, it was actually DMS that informed me that Birds solder directly onto the ECU. I was also led to believe that Hartge did have the facility to reprogramme the ECU as they 'came across' the decryption code - but once BMW found out about this they filed a heavy lawsuit against Hartge which prevented them from using the decryption code they acquired. Again, this is just hearsay and I have no way of validating this information.

As for a 3rd party warranty, I am always very cautious about what would be covered and how much time and energy it would take to get either BMW or the 3rd party to pay for warranty work. I would much prefer to have a mod that is as undetectable to BMW as possible - that is why I favour a piggyback to a reflash/remap. A little effort in uninstalling the piggyback before the car goes into the dealership is well worth while imo.

PS - You are right about DMS selling their 335i. Although it says on their advert that a 335i remap is in development, they sold their 335i almost 6 month ago and are not planning on furthering these developments in the near future.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

This may well be the case, it was actually DMS that informed me that Birds solder directly onto the ECU. I was also led to believe that Hartge did have the facility to reprogramme the ECU as they 'came across' the decryption code - but once BMW found out about this they filed a heavy lawsuit against Hartge which prevented them from using the decryption code they acquired. Again, this is just hearsay and I have no way of validating this information.

As for a 3rd party warranty, I am always very cautious about what would be covered and how much time and energy it would take to get either BMW or the 3rd party to pay for warranty work. I would much prefer to have a mod that is as undetectable to BMW as possible - that is why I favour a piggyback to a reflash/remap. A little effort in uninstalling the piggyback before the car goes into the dealership is well worth while imo.

PS - You are right about DMS selling their 335i. Although it says on their advert that a 335i remap is in development, they sold their 335i almost 6 month ago and are not planning on furthering these developments in the near future.

It wasn't Hartge that got sued by BMW, but AC Schnitzer. Their programmers were 'passed' the ECU passcode to access the internal software. BMW found out, and promptly issued a lawsuit. ACS withdrew their product pretty sharpish.

The Hartge remap isn't actually by Hartge, but by Birds directly. They have a programmer/team in Germany who do have access to the ECU and can reprogramme it directly. Which in my opinion is much better than piggybacking, as an engineer would have to delve deep into the ECU programming codes to see what's been tampered. That is beyond the scope of any normal technician at a BMW dealer. I daresay that a technician will be able to spot the frequent installation and removal of a piggyback device, with all the unclipping and alterations to the air flow meter (I think that's what is altered, correct me if I'm wrong)

Having said all that, the Birds remap is almost £2400... Procede around the £800 mark? That's a BIG difference!!

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

It wasn't Hartge that got sued by BMW, but AC Schnitzer. Their programmers were 'passed' the ECU passcode to access the internal software. BMW found out, and promptly issued a lawsuit. ACS withdrew their product pretty sharpish.

The Hartge remap isn't actually by Hartge, but by Birds directly. They have a programmer/team in Germany who do have access to the ECU and can reprogramme it directly. Which in my opinion is much better than piggybacking, as an engineer would have to delve deep into the ECU programming codes to see what's been tampered. That is beyond the scope of any normal technician at a BMW dealer. I daresay that a technician will be able to spot the frequent installation and removal of a piggyback device, with all the unclipping and alterations to the air flow meter (I think that's what is altered, correct me if I'm wrong)

Having said all that, the Birds remap is almost £2400... Procede around the £800 mark? That's a BIG difference!!

Incidentally, James and I went to see Birds today and had a ride in the Hartge 335i.... I/we are starting a separate thread or three on our visit and what we've discovered... will post shortly, but to keep you excited, the Hartge car was OMGFMTquiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick!!

[dxb335d]

when you goin post then? i going bed shortly and up out to work early so might miss it?!

Carlos

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

an engineer would have to delve deep into the ECU programming codes to see what's been tampered.

Are you sure? - I know manufacturers use check sum digits and flash counters to spot remaps, I would expect BMW to be up there with the best of them when it comes to this. Otherwise, why would they have gone to the trouble of making the ECU so hard to crack?

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

when you goin post then? i going bed shortly and up out to work early so might miss it?!

Carlos

sorry... was typing away, rolled over to think about what I was going to say next, got comfortable on my bed then got sidetracked by someone wearing little hotpants and tshirt combo well, what was I going to do?!

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

Are you sure? - I know manufacturers use check sum digits and flash counters to spot remaps, I would expect BMW to be up there with the best of them when it comes to this. Otherwise, why would they have gone to the trouble of making the ECU so hard to crack?

I think they've made the ECU so hard to crack BECAUSE it can sometimes be difficult to spot a good remap.

Also, a BMW dealer is not allowed to say that the engine warranty is invalidated because of an ECU remap - they have to prove conclusively that any fault with the engine is a DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of an ECU failure. They will try to fob a customer off by claiming an invalidation of warranty, but the minute they do that in writing they are on a slippery slope to losing in court. All the major tuners are desperately waiting for the day a manufacturer actually writes on paper that the warranty on the whole engine is invalidated, because the minute they do that, one of the tuners will take BMW to court and BMW would lose without any doubt, thereby paving the way for more people to have their cars tuned.

In fact, there are many documented cases of parts of the engine failing (for instance the fuel pump) when a remap has been in place.. the dealer says the warranty is invalid, the customer asks them to put it in writing why it's invalid, the dealer refers it back to BMW UK for backup, and BMW UK actually come back saying that actually it IS covered under warranty and the part is sutomatically repaired.

All manufacturers, not just BMW, rely on customers having a lack of knowledge when it comes to warranty issues. It's a shame really.

[silverbmwz3]

I can't understand BMW suing Schnitzer although given my past experience of getting those two companies to talk to eachother over a warranty issue it doesn't surprise me.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by silverbmwz3

I can't understand BMW suing Schnitzer although given my past experience of getting those two companies to talk to eachother over a warranty issue it doesn't surprise me.

warranty issues in the past mate?