[oonowindoo]

for the past 12 year,all my previous cars were stick (G35,G37,S2000, xB and etc...)So i know i can drive stick.

Recently i have noticed that i am having difficulty engaging 1st gear smoothly in my 335. It is hard to explain, but when i left go the clutch in first gear, the car/clutch feels jerky/skipping. Feels like i am not giving enough gas and i am dragging the clutch. I don't know if it is a combination of drive by wire + Typical German gas pedal feel.

It is almost like the engagement point is too low and first 1/5 gas pedal is non responsive . The funny thing is i did not notice anything wrong in the first 6 months of ownership.

I only noticed this when the car is warmed up since the RPM is typical higher when it is cold so it s never a problem.


All my stick cars were all Japanese and i had never experienced this. Any one else experience this with German cars before?

[Sedan_Clan]

I've never experienced that in my 335i, but I have in my M3's though.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've never experienced that in my 335i, but I have in my M3's though.

Me too, and I believe it's because of the Clutch Delay Valve. IIRC the F30 does have one, but for whatever reason the design is such it's buttery smooth for me.

Maybe because the Japanese cars you had didn't have one at all, this is culture shock for you. Whereas we're used to "worse". Check out the below link.

http://zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm

[oonowindoo]

I am familiar with the clutch delay valve.

My 05 S2000, 07 S2000 all had it and i never noticed them unless i shift aggressively.

[jokerswld34]

I've been driving MT European cars for the past 12 years and I too have noticed this issue on my f30. A bit frustrating when you can't grab a smooth shift out of first after this many years if driving stick. Is there a cdv modification for the f30 yet or can we integrate the e90 design?

[QTC]

I have something similar, except the car actually bucks while in 1st gear. Mainly happens at lower speeds…not sure what's going on, but its very annoying, and I've never had a MT car do this before.

[oonowindoo]

I did some googling.

Apparently, this Clutch chatter thing is pretty common in E9x and other BMW.

I guess it is just a BMW thing.
It is just embarrassing especially when i have passengers in my car.

Like I said earlier, i never noticed before when the car was new. Now i start to feel it around 12,000 miles.

For a few days, i was questioning my ability to drive stick, then i started to engage 1st very slowly like a newbie to see if i can smooth enagement.

It was like smooth... smooth... just when the car started to move, you feel the "Skip, Skip, Skip" then everything goes back to normal.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

I did some googling.

Apparently, this Clutch chatter thing is pretty common in E9x and other BMW.

I guess it is just a BMW thing.
It is just embarrassing especially when i have passengers in my car.

Like I said earlier, i never noticed before when the car was new. Now i start to feel it around 12,000 miles.

For a few days, i was questioning my ability to drive stick, then i started to engage 1st very slowly like a newbie to see if i can smooth enagement.

It was like smooth... smooth... just when the car started to move, you feel the "Skip, Skip, Skip" then everything goes back to normal.

Maybe you're overanalyzing the approach? I find if I think about what I'm doing too much it FUBARs everything.

[oonowindoo]

i thought so too.

But the thing is, this chatter thing does not happen 100% of the time, more like 50% of the time.

When it happens, it happens every time regardless the various method i tried to engage 1st gear.

But when it does not happen, no matter how hard i try, i cannot duplicate the chatter. So i don't think it is in my head.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by jokerswld34

Is there a cdv modification for the f30 yet or can we integrate the e90 design?

There is no separate CDV on the F30 as on earlier models. There may be a CDV however built into the clutch slave, I have not taken one apart to see.

The CDV slows down the clutch response as a crutch to less astute drivers. As the OP notes, it is not noticeable unless you drive aggressively. That is, we have a knowledgeable, astute OP.

I would suggest a worn clutch, except the OP states he cannot recreate the symptom unless he tries.

Given the idiomatic and intermittent nature I believe something is wrong, such as a improperly surfaced flywheel.

OP, I wish I could be of more help. Yours is an odd and frustrating situation, especially for a capable driver.

[oonowindoo]

Thank you.

Yes you are right. CDV feels like your clutch is slipping when you shift aggressively. Your RPM goes up but The acceleration is delayed for 1 sec or 2. Basically, you cannot chirp your tires when there is a CDV.

From what i read, The problem could be hot spots on the flywheel.

The symptom can be reduced if i let go the clutch faster and gas earlier.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

Thank you.

Yes you are right. CDV feels like your clutch is slipping when you shift aggressively. Your RPM goes up but The acceleration is delayed for 1 sec or 2. Basically, you cannot chirp your tires when there is a CDV.

From what i read, The problem could be hot spots on the flywheel.

The symptom can be reduced if i let go the clutch faster and gas earlier.

That's it! I'm going to try to chirp tires in my 335i tonight.

[Elk]

I find a CVD insulting. BMW, please assume I can handle a clutch.

Interestingly, BMW does not put a CDV on the M5 and M6.

Flywheel hotspots are typically caused by poor surfacing of the flywheel. We are talking about the same thing.

A bit of grease can cause similar symptoms, but unless you opened the housing and spilled something inside this is unlikely.

I would bring it in.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's it! I'm going to try to chirp tires in my 335i tonight.

Let me know if you succeed

[PabloK]

What speed are you trying to put her in 1st? My m3 doesn't like to go into first unless I'm going less than 15-10mph

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by Elk

I find a CVD insulting. BMW, please assume I can handle a clutch.

Interestingly, BMW does not put a CDV on the M5 and M6.

Flywheel hotspots are typically caused by poor surfacing of the flywheel. We are talking about the same thing.

A bit of grease can cause similar symptoms, but unless you opened the housing and spilled something inside this is unlikely.

I would bring it in.

Yah i am going tomorrow for my 3rd limp mode + this.

The CDV were removable in all my previous cars.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by PabloK

What speed are you trying to put her in 1st? My m3 doesn't like to go into first unless I'm going less than 15-10mph

0 mph. I am talking about from standing still. Not downshifting from 2nd to 1st, which i don't think i have ever done before.

I don't think it is just your M3. I think all cars don't like to go in 1st when it is moving.

[ronin951]

I researched this a while back. F30 CDV is now integrated. I don't recall specifics but you can see it on realoem. BMW just made the removal an expensive and/or impossible proposition...unlike pre-f30

[BOSTON3]

Had the same problem in my e90 at ~25k miles and the dealer replaced the clutch and flywheel. I'm at 47k and have the issue again. Have also been driving stick for nearly 20 years without an issue until this e90.

[oonowindoo]

Originally Posted by BOSTON3

Had the same problem in my e90 at ~25k miles and the dealer replaced the clutch and flywheel. I'm at 47k and have the issue again. Have also been driving stick for nearly 20 years without an issue until this e90.

were you ever wondering if you were too old to drive stick when it first happened?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

I don't think it is just your M3. I think all cars don't like to go in 1st when it is moving.

Yippers! The synchros do not like this one bit.

And there is absolutely no reason to shift into first from a higher gear once the car is moving.

[Infamouz627]

I'm not sure if this is the same issue I'm experiencing but my solution is to slip the clutch very slightly until the car starts rolling then apply gas while releasing the clutch completely. Whether this will cause significant wear to the clutch over time (especially at such low speeds) is unbeknownst to me but even when you first start learning how to drive a MT this is a method that is taught. I can only imagine some people get used to doing this.

Moreso than engaging 1st, my issue is getting into 2nd smoothly. I've tried shifting at higher and lower RPMs and unless I'm releasing the clutch extremely slowly or shifting under 2k RPM, I can not get it into 2nd without some jerkiness.