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[Hegemony]

EDIT: This is regarding the rear wheel on a 9.5 wide staggered setup. Should have said so on the title, can any mods edit the title to this: "IMO: ET30 9.5 rear does not work on lowered e92, details inside"

Non lowered, ET30 definitely offers the best "flush" look with the fender. It can work in some instances lowered, but there are a lot of complaints on this board about people who are having rubbing issues with this setup. Most vendors will tell you that it can work and you can just adjust camber to fix any rubbing issues that do come up, but I disagree for the reasons below.

265 wide tires range from 10.4" to 10.8" wide as best I can tell. This means there will be a max width difference of .2 inches per side translating to a difference of just over 5 millimeters per side.

Personally, I have 18x9.5 rears on a +35 offset. I'm currently running 275 wide tires that are 10.91 inches wide. Lowered and corner balanced with -2.2 of camber, it rubs with a passenger in corners and over bumps. The car is not slammed nor are the tires "tucked under" in the rear. -2.2 degrees is pretty aggressive and will cause inner shoulder wear. Going any more than that is an aggressive track setup and will wear your tires out quickly on the street. I run -2.2 at the track, fwiw.

What this means in comparison to the narrowest 265 tire (10.4 inches):

My wheels allow 5 millimeters more clearance to the outside, but the tires are just under 13 millimeters wider. This means that they are just under 6.5mm wider per side. Thus my tires on +35 offset stick out 1.5mm more than the skinniest 265 on a +30 offset. What it also means is that my +35 275 setup is on the skinnier side of the range of where 265 wide tires on a +30 setup would sit.

Since I'm so close to the skinniest 265 setup on +30, I'm going to wager that it's going to rub even with -2.2 degrees of negative camber, and again -2.2 degrees WILL cause inner shoulder wear. What's going to come into play here is just how far the car is lowered and if it's lowered for ride height vs if it's lowered and corner balanced. Corner balancing will make the ride height's not quite equal all the way around, but will provide the best handling.

Now if the person were to get the widest 265 at 10.8 inches, their tire would stick out just over 2mm MORE than my tires do which would definitely cause a rubbing condition even with a track oriented alignment.

I just can't see how this is the solution for the average person, which is what these mass order wheels are supposed to be right? What I can't understand is why so many vendors have their most popular sizes and offerings in an "it depends" setup, especially when so many of them are also selling coil over kits and lowering springs.

For what it's worth, most of the vendors are selling General Exclaim UHPs with their 19x9.5 +30 rears, and those tires are 10.4" wide. However, that gets me off on another tangent. Why sell 9.5 wide wheels for 265s? 9.0 would hold a 265 better imo, and save weight. But that's another thread for another day I guess.

265/x/18 and 265/x/19 Michelin PS2s are 10.7" wide. This puts them on the high side of the range and means they will rub.


Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of my math.

-Hegemony

[theDude]

Your math makes sense to me...perhaps most people just deal with the rubbing, which will diminish as the tire wears? I'd like to get into the "9.0 would hold a 265 better" also...but I'm baised since that's what I'm trying to do.

Curious to hear other's thoughts...

[KL2DC]

ET30 works best on E90s...I believe ET33 works better for E92, as recently discovered and discussed.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by theDude

I'd like to get into the "9.0 would hold a 265 better" also...but I'm baised since that's what I'm trying to do.

Think about it. Factory wheels are 8.5 wide and carry a 255. Why would you need to add an entire inch of wheel to go up 10mm in width? You don't. Take a look at the recommended wheel widths for 265 tires on tirerack. 9.0 is right in the middle. You could save yourself a half inch of metal in weight if your never/rarely going to run 275s.

Originally Posted by KL2DC

ET30 works best on E90s...I believe ET33 works better for E92, as recently discovered and discussed.

I think I saw that in another thread, but as recently as yesterday, we're still getting vendors both in this forum and in the vendor classifieds claiming that ET30 will work fine.

[6MTFTMFW]

I kinda disagree, I don't know why BMW doesn't use 17x9 and 18x9 wheels for 255 rear. I think 8.5 is a little low for 255. It should be x9. So 265, imho, is perfect for x9.5 and 255 for x9.

[HRC]

Very good post, glad to hear from a fellow member concerned about other members and not from some venders interested in moving stock...

Danny

[Vegas_Sirk]

With wheel and tire set ups so much comes into play. A lot of it is about "Style" as well. Usually (no always) the bigger the rim = the bigger the lip. So those looking to maximize lip size will always want to go with the widest wheel they can fit.

Another big factor in fitment as the OP side is the actual tire size .... they vary a lot based on manuf. So for example a 265 Toyo T1R can be one size but compared to a Bridgestone Potenza REO1R in a 265 ... the Bridgestone is more like a 275. (FYI Bridgestone and Advans run wide ... with track guys, Advans are a sort of cheater tire ... more tire for the size limit in the class)

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by HRC

Very good post, glad to hear from a fellow member concerned about other members and not from some venders interested in moving stock...

Danny

Thanks Danny

I've seen a lot of:

Vendor: *such and such offset* fits
Customer: I'm getting some rubbing with that offset
Vendor: Adjust your alignment to add negative camber
Customer: Better, but still rubbing
Vendor: You may have to roll your fenders

Had the customer gotten the appropriate offset, that conversation should not take place. The customer ends up inner tire wear and rolled fenders, which the shop may screw up and crack paint.

Of course, I'm not trying to make all the vendors out to be bad guys. They're trying to be profitable, so if they can place a larger order with fewer offset configurations and it works for 90% of people then that's how they're going to make the most money. That's what they're in business for, so that's what they're going to do. Pointing a finger at them would be like blaming water for being wet.

I'm simply saying that, imo, it won't work in this one situation: lowered e92 with ET30 9.5" rear with 265s or larger. When you have a passenger in the car it will most likely rub. I'm also hoping that others can learn from my mistakes.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by M3This

With wheel and tire set ups so much comes into play. A lot of it is about "Style" as well. Usually (no always) the bigger the rim = the bigger the lip. So those looking to maximize lip size will always want to go with the widest wheel they can fit.

Yeah, that's why the 9.0 on a 265 vs the 9.5 with 265 is a personal preference of mine. It's not set in stone. There's a range of workable solutions depending on what you're looking for.

Originally Posted by M3This

Another big factor in fitment as the OP side is the actual tire size .... they vary a lot based on manuf. So for example a 265 Toyo T1R can be one size but compared to a Bridgestone Potenza REO1R in a 265 ... the Bridgestone is more like a 275. (FYI Bridgestone and Advans run wide ... with track guys, Advans are a sort of cheater tire ... more tire for the size limit in the class)

With regards to the primary topic of the thread, I believe I accounted for variance in tire size in my OP.

-Hegemony

[Don Nguyen]

I don't recommend 265 tires on lowered E92s.

There's no need for such a thick tire, unless you are putting more power down than your tires can handle.

If you guys are looking for a wheel set up that will work for your application, I can make any wheel set up we sell fit/work on your car.

It is a very delicate situation, but we can work with it, if you really want the wheels to fit on your cars.

-Don

[Chowbow]

What Hegemony said. I would not buy a set of wheels that rubs and the fix being to roll my fenders or dial in negative camber.

I nearly bought a decent set of wheels but the offset will not be disclosed to me but the vendor just said that it will fit without rubbing on an E90. I passed on those wheels, I don't want to spend the money on some forged rims without knowing the specs, and if there was an issue with rubbing then what am I to do? Send the wheels back?

Another reason to go with a high end wheel with customizable everything - offset, width, style etc. I thought it was nuts to buy from Fikse on my old car but shopping for wheels again today for my E90, makes me want to go back and get a custom set done from Fikse or HRE... But damn they're expensive!

[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by Hegemony

Yeah, that's why the 9.0 on a 265 vs the 9.5 with 265 is a personal preference of mine. It's not set in stone. There's a range of workable solutions depending on what you're looking for.



With regards to the primary topic of the thread, I believe I accounted for variance in tire size in my OP.

-Hegemony

No I wasnt saying any of the info you provided was wrong or anything like that. I guess I never made my real point that wheel fitment has a lot of personal preference in it. For me the "safe" offsets that 99% of people run on here looks "ok" IMO ... Im always down to roll / shave and adjust camber to get the "Hella flush" look .... but thats me. I think in the end the look is well worth the effort.

I understand that the majority of people are not ok with shaving or rolling their 40K cars or dealing with a little more tire wear from neg camber. So to each their own.

[longtran]

every car is made different. rrg007 is running 19x10 et 30 with 275 rear and is super low. i didnt hear him say its rubbing.

[Hegemony]

Longtran,

Not to contradict you, but he is having problems. And according to this thread he said he is running 265's as of 8/15/07.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77752

Still sounds like something weird going on with his alignment, but hard to say without more info. He needs to go to an alignment shop with a Hunter machine, imo. I've also had longevity issues with T1R's though, so it could just be the tire compound.

[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by Don************

I don't recommend 265 tires on lowered E92s.

There's no need for such a thick tire, unless you are putting more power down than your tires can handle.

Don, what do you mean you don't recommend 265 tires on lowered E92s? Please clarify. Are you talking for a specific rim width?

Originally Posted by Hegemony

Why sell 9.5 wide wheels for 265s? 9.0 would hold a 265 better imo, and save weight. But that's another thread for another day I guess.

Hege, 19x9.5 wheels look better, perhaps that is why.

[uhaulball]

if it rubs.. roll the fenders. why is this viewed as such a painful experience? u can get like 5mm more clearance just by rolling the fenders moderately!

[longtran]

Originally Posted by Hegemony

Longtran,

Not to contradict you, but he is having problems. And according to this thread he said he is running 265's as of 8/15/07.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77752

Still sounds like something weird going on with his alignment, but hard to say without more info. He needs to go to an alignment shop with a Hunter machine, imo. I've also had longevity issues with T1R's though, so it could just be the tire compound.

o. i wasnt aware of that. well oc 335i is running 265 on 19x9.5 et 32.

heres what happen to me. i had a set of csl rep before with H&R race springs. i was running 245 35 19 rear with a 20mm spacer making my set up 19x9.5 et 20. i was rubbing somewhat on hard dips. i pass the same setup to dean325i, he also have H&R race but he didnt rub. i just think that every e90/e92 are made differently. 19x10 et 30 should fit, but if it rub, it should be just a lil bit. nothing a fender rolling tool cant fix.

[longtran]

e92man bought some wheels with 19x9.5 et 30 and they fit. he is lowered on H&R sports. he does not rub.


edit, it wasnt e92man, it was someone else. i lowered his car recently too...

[uhaulball]

i had 19x10 et24 which translates to 19x9.5 et18. with a slight fender mod, not even fender rolling, i solved all the rubbing. and here i see complaints about et30, which imo is the perfect offset without going overly conservative.

im able to fit 285 wide rear tires without rubbing but i think the only way people with E92s can run 265s and up without rubbing is with negative camber....

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by Don************

I don't recommend 265 tires on lowered E92s.

There's no need for such a thick tire, unless you are putting more power down than your tires can handle.

If you guys are looking for a wheel set up that will work for your application, I can make any wheel set up we sell fit/work on your car.

It is a very delicate situation, but we can work with it, if you really want the wheels to fit on your cars.

-Don

most people want look so the run a 10-10.5 inch wide and strech the hell out of a tire. Knowing thats far from the best setup means nothing to most people because they get rims for looks first and only looks. I can understand that and this is just the way it is.

[OC Guy]

For reference sakes:
BBS LM
19x8.5 235/35/19 et32
19x9.5 265/35/19 et32
Tires Goodyear Eagle F1s

I'd run 10 or 10.5 if it looked good. Might not be the best setup, but this is my street setup. A track setup would be on something entirely different.