[sg335]

OK, got your attention

So who is going to work on this project? There must be a larger core already made that can be installed on the car without much effort that will provide more cooling capacity than the stock unit. There has been discussion of just adding another stock unit to the other fender well and that would work, but it may be easier to just install a larger unit in the stock location. Has anyone removed the bumper to see what kind of space is in there. There is no down side to a larger oil cooler except additional money. Although I still think the shut down problem is radiator related, this should not prohibit use from exploring this upgrade as a possible fix. And remember that cooler oil temps will lower coolant temps just a bit because the block will be a little cooler due to cooler oil. The IC mod has already been address by two other aftermarket offerings. No one has released a larger oil cooler or a larger radiator. Who wants to call Zionsville, Fluidyne, and others for the radiator upgrade?

[WAYNEBO]

Good post... let's get the ball rolling on this. Anybody want to take the first dive?

[RMRC]

bump^ I called Turner today to ask what they're doing about the problem. They said they are aware of the cooling issues and are "bouncing some ideas around." The only thing they've tested so far is a bigger intercooler. No timeline though.

[Hegemony]

I actually have two stock oil coolers now. One is sitting in a box at the moment. I'm toying with the idea of investigating a way to stack them as an interim solution until someone comes out with an upgrade.

[Chowbow]

This would be a pretty cool mod to see... A couple ideas and suggestions...

Depending on how strong the oil pump is, you may NOT want to have 2 oil coolers. If the pump does not create enough head pressure, it will actually not flow the oil through the coolers. I'm not saying this is the case, but it would be a pretty bad thing if this happened. The best way to test for this is to add a flow-meter on the line AFTER the second cooler. You can do a number of tests to see what kind of flow rate drop there is with 1, versus 2, stock oil coolers.

If you can put a larger oil cooler in place of the stock one, it may be a safer bet, although it may not cool quite as well. It's all about surface area, but if you use a single larger cooler you are unlikely to run into flow / head pressure problems.

I just got my car and I have not taken a look inside there. I don't even know where the factory oil cooler is. However, I'll try and jump in there and take a look when I change my oil this weekend. There are numerous cheap transmission / power steering coolers that you can just add to the loop and see what happens.

Anyone have specs on the oil pump in the 335?

[2e9x's]

How about an auxiliary fan on the oil cooler? Does anybody know the intended path of the airflow? Is the cooler pulling cool air in from the wheel well, or pushing it out of the engine compartment?

Also, how about an auxiliary fan on the radiator?

Finally what about a better way of getting heat out of the engine compartment?

One of the problems mentioned in the technical literature about this engine is heat caused by limited space in the engine compartment. I wonder how that impacts all this?

[533ogetnom]

air comes in from down low on the bumper and spills out into the wheel duct

[sg335]

What about all the oil coolers at www.summitracing.com? If someone can take off the bumper and measure the stock unit, that would be great and give us an idea of where to start with upgrade sizing. With the bumper off, you can easily see if the driver's side has the same room as the passernger side for the addition of a second unit here. All you would have to do is cut open the wheel well for venting or put a stock vent panel in like the passenger side. I personally like the idea of a larger single unit if it will fit.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by sg335

What about all the oil coolers at www.summitracing.com? If someone can take off the bumper and measure the stock unit, that would be great and give us an idea of where to start with upgrade sizing. With the bumper off, you can easily see if the driver's side has the same room as the passernger side for the addition of a second unit here. All you would have to do is cut open the wheel well for venting or put a stock vent panel in like the passenger side. I personally like the idea of a larger single unit if it will fit.

I'll measure the stock unit sitting in a box in my garage tonight

[Chowbow]

Sounds good Hegemony. Anybody possibly have a bumper off? I'll try and see what I can dig into either tonight or this weekend and get some measurements for tolerances in that area.

[jjlawyer]

With any kind of a mod like this, I see warranties being voided if you ever have a problem with anything that gets engine oil.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by jjlawyer

With any kind of a mod like this, I see warranties being voided if you ever have a problem with anything that gets engine oil.

In all fairness, the title of the thread is "Racing Oil Cooler Upgrade." However, I'm not sure you're right about that, though I'm no lawyer. You think that it logically makes sense that you put a component that exceeded the capabilities of the stock piece and they're going to be able to prove, in a court of law, that the component that exceeded their own standards caused a malfunction elsewhere?

The oil cooler is roughly 11.5 inches by 5 inches. I also took a shot of the mounting bracket.

[2e9x's]

Here's an idea... why not try something like this first?

http://www.slickcar.com/spal-fan.asp

Maybe somebody could add a pull type SPAL fan to the wheel well side of the oil cooler. Very little disassembly required and it would be warranty safe(er).

That would accomplish a couple of goals:

1. Reduce oil temperatures a bit.
2. Help extract heat from the engine compartment in case we are not dealing with just a fluid temperature issue.

There was a debate on the Porsche rennsport forums about the use of a SPAL fan on a 911 Turbo intercooler to lower intake temperatures. Many people believed they really worked.

My car is currently on a boat so I can't measure this...maybe somebody could measure the gap between the oil cooler and the tire. One of these fans is about 2" deep.

At less than $100 this might be a good solution!

[Chowbow]

I didn't get to look under the car yesterday, so no news to report from here, sorry.

I'd try the SPAL fan, although I'm not totally convinced it would make a difference... I'm going on a limb here though... I don't think the problem is the cooler not getting enough air flow. I think the problem is simply the fact that the engine produces too much heat for the cooler, period. Every pass-through type cooler has a limitation on how much heat it can remove from the loop that it is in.

I can't say too much about the stock cooler, but it does look somewhat restrictive and I would go to say that there is a better aftermarket one out there which has bigger lines and possibly more passes through the fins (looking at that cooler, it's a single pass cooler). The fins are also really tightly packed which favors lower air-flow cooling versus fins which are a bit more spaced apart which favors high air-flow cooling.

All speculative right now, won't be able to get deep into it until later, but anyone who is willing to take an adventure, go and try a couple things and report back.

[2e9x's]

I get what you are saying, and totally agree with you. My reasoning was this...

The air flows from the front engine compartment back to the oil cooler. To reach the cooler, it has to pass the turbos. Hot air is thus what's getting to the oil cooler. Maybe if a SPAL fan could help extract more of the hot air from the engine compartment the stock cooler could be more efficient.

Additionally correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we really only looking to shave a couple of degrees off? Even if we managed to lower the temps by 10 degrees it would still keep the cars out of limp home, right?

On that same subject, how about a water spray like on the Evo's IC? I am thinking about that on the oil cooler, the radiator and the IC.

[Chowbow]

I really don't know how much the oil cooler can decrease temps, and how effective the SPAL fan vs. aftermarket cooler is going to be. It's all speculation and until one of us tries it, we won't have an answer.

I found this site which sells some high quality multi-pass coolers:

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/oil-coolers.html

[VMRWheels]

The problem is that even while on track, and at high speeds, the cooler isn't doing its job. A spal fan isn't going to bring in anymore air than the cooler will see on its own at high speeds. It would certainly lower the amount of time it takes for the car to cool down in the paddock, but on the track I can't see it being a 10 degree difference, or any difference at all.

I think a larger aftermarket unit is what needs to be tried first. And possibly trying to relocate the cooler to a better area so that it gets more airflow from the front of the car.

Keep the ideas coming tho, and let us know what you guys find (whoever tries it first).

[Coyot]

http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible_pg2.html

What about using special insulating wraps for the exhaust headers in the engine bay?
They must be carefully designed, though.

[Chowbow]

In my opinion, the problem doesn't stem from the amount of heat stuck in the engine bay. The problem is simply that the cooling system (both oil and coolant) are not capable of dissipating all the heat generated by the motor and turbos.

Wrapping the headers should reduce the heat in the engine bay but I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make. Regardless, every bit helps and if someone is up to test that I'd be interested in the results.

[2e9x's]

I was just reading a tech article in Roundel (August 2007, pg 130, "About That Turbo Engine...") that mentions switching to the 10-60 oil used in the M products. The article goes on to discuss different weight oils and says "I have already heard from one owner who did perform a 1,200-mile break-in service using Red Line 10W-40, and already his temperatures have dropped approximately 20 degrees under normal driving."

I see no harm in doing this. Do you?

[Chowbow]

I'd try it although that weight is a little thick for turbo motors. I should have used 0w-40 yesterday when I did my oil change but I got free 5w-30 so I used that..

If they have a 5w-50 or something I'd use it and try.

Also, how about removing the foglight and directing more air to the coolers through there? The foglights are useless anyway.

[Chowbow]

Call me crazy but I just noticed that my car is 10*F cooler than it was the past couple days... Instead of castrol, I used mobil 1 for my oil change yesterday since I get it for free. That's the only difference and change on my car. Weird.