[N0OS3]

So... there's an episode where they have an engineer pull up a laptop computer with a program on it that can simply add a VIN and track it through a transponder (usually the emergency/alarm transponder) in your car... this program also show's frequent stops, how long they stopped there, and everything else from this transponder...

I'm sure it's there for the purpose of security for your vehicle but i was wondering if there's one in my E90 and where it's located... at least, what is the part number? I tried doing a google search for it already but i haven't found anything definitive on any of that info... maybe i'm the first one to bring this up (why i can't find search results?)?

not that i'm nervous about emergency responders finding my vehicle or i'm running from the law or something, but with today's rate if illegal downloading of programs, i'm sure someone could probably find this program, install it, and find any vehicle they want and trace it...

[StabPreflop]

I dunno but if you find out I would love to know. Surely it can be removed from the car.

[tofu-]

i'd assume it'd be built into the GPS or bmw assist thing if we have something like that

[RoundelM3]

^Guess it's all dependent upon whether it's active or not. Mine's not. And it's doubtful that whatever was presented was accurate. Maybe for GM cars that have that gizmo that allows them to shut off your Suburban's engine if someone steals it or unlock the doors from your dumbphone...but I certainly don't have anything like that in my 2007 E92 (or my wife's 2011 E88, for that matter).

[theblackmamba]

Its located inside of the ECU of the car....

[fun2drive]

Is that possible sure is that likely to happen no. Unless they have BMW turn your SOS on they cannot track your car unless they have your cell phone number or transponder and then the transponder is good only between toll booths.

You can triangulate on your cell phone to a fairly accurate location but again not if it is turned off.

Remember these shows also show instant DNA analysis etc...

[gpb]

Hollywood != Reality.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by thatswhatsh3said

Its located inside of the ECU of the car....

Actually, that's not true. It's a separate module...the ECU is an Engine Control Unit; the communications stuff isn't part of that. And we're talking about something like GM's OnStar, which my vehicle doesn't have - my SOS feature is deactivated unless I activate it, which I haven't done in the 5 years I've owned the car.

[N0OS3]

They did the demonstration on a Toyota Prius i think (i'll have to watch the episode again).
O_o so where is the SOS device?

And actually, law enforcement can triangulate your phone even if it's off as long as the battery is in it (i've had this demonstrated to me when i was in highschool).

FYI: Penn & Teller's BULLSHIT is in Vegas... not hollywood lol

[gpb]

Originally Posted by N0OS3

O_o so where is the SOS device?

Sit in the car and look up for the SOS button if you have BMW Assist. The actual control module aka TCU or COMBOX is typically in the trunk area if I remember correctly.

I'd guess that pretty much any car with a BMW Assist / OnStar type system would be locatable. You can look up your car's location via the iPhone app - but interestingly it locks out location lookup if the car ignition is on. I assume that's happening at BMW's servers since the safety and concierge features need to convey your location while the ignition is on.

Without such a system installed I'm unsure how it would work and suspect it does not. I have not seen the show and am unfamiliar with Prius models/options

And actually, law enforcement can triangulate your phone even if it's off as long as the battery is in it (i've had this demonstrated to me when i was in highschool).

<skeptical>How does this work? What phone models are affected? Why doesn't LE do this with all the missing persons and runaway cases? This is a VERY broad generalization across hundreds of differenct device models and several cellular technologies so I'm curious as to your source for it being true across all or most or even a large number of phones?</skeptical>

FYI: Penn & Teller's BULLSHIT is in Vegas... not hollywood lol

Ah, my error. Vegas shows are so much more reliable than Hollywood, I'm sorry I called their veracity into question.

[trimtab81]

Some of the technology these days is crazy...and dangerous. There are programs out there that can activate the microphone on your phone and listen in at any time...same goes for your camera...what the phone sees, so do they...privacy is a thing of the past!!!

[gpb]

Originally Posted by trimtab81

Some of the technology these days is crazy...and dangerous. There are programs out there that can activate the microphone on your phone and listen in at any time...same goes for your camera...what the phone sees, so do they...privacy is a thing of the past!!!

Your source for this info? Which phones are susceptible?

[trimtab81]

Originally Posted by gpb

Your source for this info? Which phones are susceptible?

The NYtimes did an article...here's the link...there is a ton of info online, just do a quick search on google

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/te...kers.html?_r=0

[gpb]

Originally Posted by trimtab81

The NYtimes did an article...here's the link...there is a ton of info online, just do a quick search on google

Okay, yeah - if you download malware to your phone you're opening yourself up just like if you download malware to your computer.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post, but it sounded like you were saying someone could remotely gain control of your phone without you having any involvement whatsoever. i.e. it sounded like you were saying all phones could be remotely hijacked without the involvement or knowledge of the owner.


The NYT article speaks of something different -- hackers trick the phone owner into installing their spyware or embedding their malware into some free app available from who knows where. This is not unlike falling for a phishing scam online or giving your identity details to someone who calls you pretending to be your power company (c.f. Georgia Powers) where the naive get fleeced and the vigilant tend to avoid problems.

[AndreyT]

I'm not sure what is the question here. Systems like OnStar and BMW Assist - that is exactly what they do. More precisely, it is what they can easily do, if instructed to do so.

The car is equipped with a GPS receiver, which determines the car's current location. The location is transmitted to the outside recipient using cellular network. OnStar transmits through CDMA networks, while BMW Assist transmits through GSM networks. So, for these systems to work, you car needs two critical parts: a GPS receiver and a cellular network transmitter. Of course, these systems work only inside areas of cellular coverage. In non-covered areas the car cannot be located by a third party in real time.

LoJack uses a different system, not based on cellular networks. It transmits using its own dedicated transmitter to dedicated NCIC receivers. And the location technique is not based on GPS, but rather on following the bearing towards the signal source (or triangulation, if enough receivers caught the signal).

So, to answer your original question, if you have built-in BMW Assist in your car, then you do have a tracking system in your car, potentially available to third parties.

[avocet]

put on a tin foil hat and you will be ok.

[Matrixolution]

Originally Posted by gpb

Your source for this info? Which phones are susceptible?

There are many ways to achieve this...

For iphone, you can use an app called RemoteSnap. You open the app on your computer and it access your iphone camera remotly.

Another less intuitive method can be use some kind of remote control software (apply to Andriod, iOS, Blackberry), and access the camera that way.

In terms of GPS tracking, it's even easier. Google Latitude is the most common one. SOTI is a more enterprise level tracking / remote software. There are tons out there. As long as you have data connection on your phone, you are trackable.

[N0OS3]

Originally Posted by AndreyT

I'm not sure what is the question here. Systems like OnStar and BMW Assist - that is exactly what they do. More precisely, it is what they can easily do, if instructed to do so.

The car is equipped with a GPS receiver, which determines the car's current location. The location is transmitted to the outside recipient using cellular network. OnStar transmits through CDMA networks, while BMW assist transmits through GSM networks.

Of course, these systems work only inside areas of cellular coverage. In non-covered areas the car cannot be located by a third party.

LoJack uses a different system, that transmits using its own frequency, not relying of cellular networks, so it works only within range of NCIC receiver.

Ah, i see... you're very knowledgeable about the network thing, i must say.

So, as long as i don't have something that transmits across a network then i should be okay... :/ interesting...


Btw, i found the episode i was talking about... it's Penn & Teller's Season 3 episode 7 "Big Brother"... i rewatched that episode and found out that he actually installed a tracking device into the car first then began to track it... they mention though that *most* new cars are built with one right in (i'm guessing a standard GPS is what they're talking about)
Skip to about 19:06 (or you can watch the whole episode)
http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/p...d=socjblwzjfsm

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by gpb

Okay, yeah - if you download malware to your phone you're opening yourself up just like if you download malware to your computer.

Whether it is malware or not is a question of context and usage.

All smartphones have tracking software available for them. Like SeekDroid for Android phones, for one example. This is perfectly useful software, intended for you to track your own phone. But if someone discovers your SeekDroid password, they will be able to track you as well.

Nevertheless I wouldn't call SeekDroid "malware".

And that is not even mentioning such things as Google Latitude (part of Google Maps package), which allows you to designate friends who can track you (or, more precisely, your cell phone location) in real time.

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by N0OS3

So, as long as i don't have something that transmits across a network then i should be okay... :/ interesting...

Exactly.

GPS by itself cannot tell anyone your location. GPS is a passive system that can only tell you your current location. Only to you. A car cannot be tracked by a third party "through GPS", although misleading words like "tracking through GPS" are thrown around pretty often these days.

Speaking figuratively, in order for your car to become trackable by an outside party, you need to have a gremlin in your car, which constantly looks over your shoulder at your GPS screen and continuously whispers your current location to the outside party using a tiny cell phone.

If you want to disable tracking, there's no reason to smash the GPS screen. The GPS is not at fault here. All you need to do is to kill the gremlin.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by N0OS3

They did the demonstration on a Toyota Prius i think (i'll have to watch the episode again).
O_o so where is the SOS device?

And actually, law enforcement can triangulate your phone even if it's off as long as the battery is in it (i've had this demonstrated to me when i was in highschool).

FYI: Penn & Teller's BULLSHIT is in Vegas... not hollywood lol

The phone would have to be talking to the tower.
If it's in deep sleep or truly off they can not.
What they can do is find the last location of the phone from tower information that was last updated.

Off means no signals receive or transmit. Otherwise it's a standby mode.