[D_o_S]

Hi,

I was at the tire shop 2 days ago to have my tires changed (summer -> winter).

When the guy was torquing the bolts with a torque wrench, he did so with the wheels still off the ground.

The front wheels moved to the left, so did the steering wheel.

I'm scared something is broken? Or is it OK to turn the wheels like this, when the engine is off?

Since the wheels were off the ground, there was minimal resistance.

What about the steering lock, couldn't that be broken?

Car hasn't reported any messages, but I'm paranoid... never going back to have my wheels changed, going to do everything myself.

[N0OS3]

as long as he turned the wheel's by hand and not WITH the steering wheel you're fine - when you say "torquing", is he actually using an impact wrench to get them on there to ensure maximum torque or something different? if so, the wheels being off or on the ground wouldn't make a difference as long as minimum torque specs are met.

[D_o_S]

Ok, let me clarify:

He raised the car, took the old wheels of, etc - no wheel movement at this point.

Then, he put the new wheels on.
He screwed the screws in by hand
He tightened them with an impact wrench (I'm assuming at some low torque)
He took a torque wrench set to 120 Nm (correct for our cars) and torqued each screw. As he was torquing the front wheels with the wrench, the front right wheel moved.

I only registered wheel movement on the front right wheel, not sure if it went to full lock (i.e. wheels pointing to the left), but when he was torquing the front left wheel, I couldn't see the front wheels move back to center/wheels pointing to right

So, he didn't move the steering wheel. As he was applying torque on the screw, the front wheel moved. I was watching by the car and noticed that the steering wheel was moving, which I think suggests the steering wheel lock was off.

I didn't tell him the car has comfort access, so I think the key was in the slot the whole time he was working on the car. In such a case, I don't think the steering wheel lock would engage?

[Efthreeoh]

Man are you paranoid. Relax, nothing is wrong. He just moved the road wheel and it moved the steering rack. Being the steering rack is directly attached to the steering wheel it moved in unison.

What does not make sense is the tech trying to torque the wheel bolts with torque wrench with the wheels off the ground. The wheel should just spin. Were you in the car with the brakes on?

[VTECaddict]

Perfectly fine. The steering wheel is connected to the front wheels. When you turn one, the other one turns too. That's how it works...

And as far as I know, there is no steering wheel lock. They took it out in 07 because they were getting stuck.

[2M]

Are you on acid?

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Hi,

I was at the tire shop 2 days ago to have my tires changed (summer -> winter).

When the guy was torquing the bolts with a torque wrench, he did so with the wheels still off the ground.

The front wheels moved to the left, so did the steering wheel.

I'm scared something is broken? Or is it OK to turn the wheels like this, when the engine is off?

Since the wheels were off the ground, there was minimal resistance.

What about the steering lock, couldn't that be broken?

Car hasn't reported any messages, but I'm paranoid... never going back to have my wheels changed, going to do everything myself.

I hate to be this way but if this has scared you then there is NO WAY you have enough knowledge to do ANY maintenance yourself. Sorry. Just my opinion.

[WreckerX5d]

All the engine does in terms of steering is run the power steering. It just makes your life easier. The only thing I am wondering is why is the mechanic torquing the wheels when the car is off the ground.

[Castle]

Oh well, I guess you do get paranoid after a while with these cars...LOL

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

...

I see that this thread "weather-waned" in a rather useless direction, so let's inject some common sense into it.

Firstly, applying steering force in "from wheels to the steering wheel" direction is typically perfectly fine with any car. This is actually what each and every car experiences in everyday driving: when you brake over an uneven pavement surface (rut-shaped unevenness, i.e grooves), you can feel large steering feedback coming from the road back to the steering wheel. (FWD cars experience it under both acceleration and braking, while RWD - only under braking). Your steering linkage is designed to withstand these loads, and I'd say that they can easily be much larger than what your car experienced at the wheel installer.

Secondly, BMW stopped installing steering column lock in their cars a while ago. Your car doesn't have it, so you don't have to worry about it.

Thirdly, the first thing one would worry about in this situation is probably the Active Steering System (AS), assuming your car has one. Many people fail to understand that AS is not a booster system, but rather something completely different. Does your car have AS or not? But in any case the AS system should be designed to withstand considerable external loads (see "firstly").

[zboost]

I know the thread is a bit of old but some weeks ago my battery died in front of the garage. So we had to push the car with a few maneuvers which involved steering the wheel with the engine off so I can hook the car with the charger inside.
On the next day I've noticed a traces of power steering fluid from the reservoir, it turned out that it overflew from turning the wheel while the engine is not running. So I topped it up with the proper fluid. In the service they said nothing to worry about and is normal? May this have caused any problems?

[JustDriveIt]

Originally Posted by zboost

I know the thread is a bit of old but some weeks ago my battery died in front of the garage. So we had to push the car with a few maneuvers which involved steering the wheel with the engine off so I can hook the car with the charger inside.
On the next day I've noticed a traces of power steering fluid from the reservoir, it turned out that it overflew from turning the wheel while the engine is not running. So I topped it up with the proper fluid. In the service they said nothing to worry about and is normal? May this have caused any problems?

I always have steering fluid leaking out of the canister. It's not an issue.

[motoguy128]

The car, like most all cars has a mechanical steering rack connected to the steering wheel. Actullay only Infiniti and maybe one or two others have tried "steer by wire". Therefore anytime you rotate the wheels, the steering wheel turns.

Most all cars have power assist on the steering. On older BMW's it's hydralic, meaning hydraulic actuator powered by a small hydraulic pump will help move the steering rack. On most all newer cars, for better fuel economy since the hydraulic pump runs all the time and is power off the engine using a belt just like the air conditioner compressor, an electric servo motor is used to apply the force. However, due to the nature of the motors, the "feel" is usually less organic, less proportional, more indirect and you feel less connected.

In either case, no damage will occur form turning this manually at the wheels... and I doubt you could ever apply enough force at the steering wheel to ever cause any damage either. It's designed so that you can turn it manually when the engine isn't running, the pump fails or belt breaks, if needed.

Just do a google/wiki search for "rack and pinion steering".

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by motoguy128

The car, like most all cars has a mechanical steering rack connected to the steering wheel.

Only non-AS E9x cars have a classic solid mechanical connection between steering wheel and steering rack. E9x cars with AS (Active Seeering) do not have true continuous connection: the steering shaft is split in the middle by a "differential", which allows an electric AS motor to plug in and add its own steering input.

AS is not pure "drive by wire", but it is something "mixed": both you and the electric AS motor can steer the car independently. For example, in theory AS can completely override (cancel out) your steering input making the car go straight regardless of what you do with the steering wheel. This illustrates the fact that there's no plain-and-simple solid mechanical link between the steering wheel and steering rack in AS cars.

Originally Posted by motoguy128

Most all cars have power assist on the steering.

Yes, but AS is not power assist. AS is a system that can independently steer the car as it pleases even if you permanently lock the steering wheel in "straight" position. Or the other way around: it can keep the front wheels straight, even when you turn the steering wheel wildly.