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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Coolant Temp Charts



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      07-28-2007, 09:50 PM   #1
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Coolant Temp Charts

I've posted a lot about my car going into Limp Home mode (induced by excess coolant temp) at the driving school at Willow Springs and posted graphs of my coolant temp on track vs. that of the E92 6MT that was there. Well Friday I recorded my coolant temps on my commute home (extended about 20mins to go to Lowe's) and left my car in D and drove very conservatively not exceeding 4,000 RPM. The first chart is of my car on my commute ~90 degrees ambient), the second chart is of the E92 6MT (Proceded) on track at Willow Springs (~95-100 degrees ambient) and the last is of my car on track at Willow Springs (~95 degrees ambient) going into Limp Home mode at 16mins. You can see my car's coolant temp on the commute mirrors the coolant temp of the E92 on track.

So do you guys think the Step worked hard using the paddles in Manual mode on track is producing enough extra heat to max out the cooling system? Perhaps my car just has issues since I haven't read of any other Steps with oil cooler going into limp mode on track (except the Autobahn cars in Joliet, IL).

Any opinions/comments?
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      08-06-2007, 12:55 PM   #2
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Do you think step cars get hotter at the track than 6mt? What was your oil temp? Did the display say anything or did you just feel the loss of power? I think it is probably a question of you pushing the car more as the day went on because you were more comfortable going faster.

Read this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76661
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      08-06-2007, 01:43 PM   #3
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Was the 6MT Procede running as hard as you? I've noticed that 8/10ths versus 9+/10ths makes all the difference in the world.
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      08-06-2007, 01:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Was the 6MT Procede running as hard as you? I've noticed that 8/10ths versus 9+/10ths makes all the difference in the world.
The 6MT Procede was in the D run group but was moved to my C group for the last two Sunday sessions. But for fear of permanent damage to my engine I passed on the last two sessions so was never actually on track with him to gauge his pace.
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      08-06-2007, 01:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjlawyer View Post
Do you think step cars get hotter at the track than 6mt? What was your oil temp? Did the display say anything or did you just feel the loss of power? I think it is probably a question of you pushing the car more as the day went on because you were more comfortable going faster.

Read this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76661
Yes, from what I've seen and experienced I think the step is more prone to overheating the coolant compared to the 6MT. My oil temp was 285-290 each time I lost power. The display was empty.
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      08-06-2007, 02:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reb03 View Post
Yes, from what I've seen and experienced I think the step is more prone to overheating the coolant compared to the 6MT. My oil temp was 285-290 each time I lost power. The display was empty.
I was loosing power also at the Streets with the same oil temps. If the display is empty, I don't think it's really limp mode
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      08-06-2007, 02:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjlawyer View Post
I was loosing power also at the Streets with the same oil temps. If the display is empty, I don't think it's really limp mode
Well if losing all power isn't limp home mode what is it? My car is going back to the dealer (a different dealer this time) this week so we'll see what the service manager at this one says. So basically if you live in southern CA and participate in HPDEs you shouldn't buy a 335i? I have trouble accepting this. Even my 2006 E60 530i didn't overheat at Big Willow.
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      08-06-2007, 03:26 PM   #8
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I've taken mine to Buttonwillow and didn't have any problems. I'll be trying Calif Speedway in Oct. Should be a good test as I will be sharing my car with my wife so even less time to cool down between sessions.
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      08-07-2007, 11:03 PM   #9
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It really depends on how hard you drive the car. At Big Willow, for example, even in 100 degree weather, there is a big difference between running a 1:58 minute lap in the beginner group with traffic holding you up, and running a 1:35 lap in the advanced group with race cars passing you running times of 1:21's. I would suspect that a 2 minute lap pace at 100 degrees will not shut off nearly as fast as a 1:35.
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      08-08-2007, 10:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reb03 View Post
Well if losing all power isn't limp home mode what is it? My car is going back to the dealer (a different dealer this time) this week so we'll see what the service manager at this one says. So basically if you live in southern CA and participate in HPDEs you shouldn't buy a 335i? I have trouble accepting this. Even my 2006 E60 530i didn't overheat at Big Willow.
I think limp mode is what people call it when the info display shows a one half engine symbol and the idrive says "reduced angine power." Also, this condition will only reset with turing off the car.
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      08-08-2007, 10:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
It really depends on how hard you drive the car. At Big Willow, for example, even in 100 degree weather, there is a big difference between running a 1:58 minute lap in the beginner group with traffic holding you up, and running a 1:35 lap in the advanced group with race cars passing you running times of 1:21's. I would suspect that a 2 minute lap pace at 100 degrees will not shut off nearly as fast as a 1:35.
Your suspicion is confirmed. When I got up to 285-290 oil temps, I'd slow from 9/10ths (well 9/10 in my mind, probably 5/10 to a racecar driver, lol) to about 7/10ths and the oil temp dropped 20-25 degrees within half a lap.
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      08-08-2007, 12:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
It really depends on how hard you drive the car. At Big Willow, for example, even in 100 degree weather, there is a big difference between running a 1:58 minute lap in the beginner group with traffic holding you up, and running a 1:35 lap in the advanced group with race cars passing you running times of 1:21's. I would suspect that a 2 minute lap pace at 100 degrees will not shut off nearly as fast as a 1:35.
Good point.
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      08-08-2007, 11:55 PM   #13
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Well we are getting somewhere I think. So what does this unofficial study show so far? If you drive slower, ie lower rpms in a higher gear? (you could drive slower in a lower gear at high RPM's), the car won't overheat the (oil, coolant,air?) as fast. It is true that higher RPM's will tax the engine more in creating more heat due to increased friction. In my previous example, you could run a 3 minute lap in 2nd gear the whole way around the track at 65mph and 7000 rpm. This should create more heat load than normal 10/10th driving utilizing all the gear. I don't know if I would want to test this theory for 30 minutes though, but it does make a good point. Now we need to identify which system is causing the problem. It is interesting to point out that AA just ran their car in 90+ temps at a track event and they said there were no overheating/shut down problems. What's up with that. Our search for answers just got a little more difficult...
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      08-09-2007, 09:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
It is interesting to point out that AA just ran their car in 90+ temps at a track event and they said there were no overheating/shut down problems. What's up with that. Our search for answers just got a little more difficult...
It sure seems that only some cars are affected by the overheating problem. Last night I dropped my car off at another dealer for a second opinion. Despite selling more cars than any other dealer in the western region this dealer hasn’t heard of any such cases. There have been a lot of 335s exposed to track days here in southern CA so if it were a problem with all cars you’d think these cases would be popping up all over the place. Oh yeah, my car is bone stock and always has been. I’ll report back what they find.

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      08-09-2007, 08:53 PM   #15
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Well the second opinion on my overheating car yielded the same opinion. "The car is functioning properly by cutting power when it gets too hot. BMW just didn't intend this car to be driven hard on track." The service foreman said he'd seen a couple other 335i sedans in for the same problem but no coupes. So there ya go, if you live where it gets warm and you intend to track your car it seems the 335i is not the best choice unless you enjoy driving at 80% the whole time. I should have kept the M3. Live and learn.
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      08-10-2007, 01:10 PM   #16
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That makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!!! How can you have the Ultimate Driving Machine and not be able to take it on the track? Man, it's funny I tracked my sedan e46 for years without any problems. No luckily I moved to a 335i e92. Whew, that was a close one almost went for the sedan again.
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      08-10-2007, 05:02 PM   #17
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Not buying the the sedan vs coupe difference unless one car lacks the 2nd oil cooler.
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      08-10-2007, 05:19 PM   #18
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Perhaps the coupe's different facia directs more air to the oil cooler? No idea.
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      08-10-2007, 05:19 PM   #19
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It could be how the front end is built (airflow) and/or size of the cooler.
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      08-23-2007, 09:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman32 View Post
How can you have the Ultimate Driving Machine and not be able to take it on the track? Man, it's funny I tracked my sedan e46 for years without any problems.
Absolutely! Same here, and in 105--109F ambient temps to boot!
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