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[ToddPhilly]

So I'm looking into setting my 335 up for track use next summer. I don't want to run the RFT tires, so I thought I might purchase a set of rims/tires for track use only. For those of you who are track-saavy, what do you think of the following setup:

18x8" Sport Edition KM11 Wheels:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...atin+Sil+Paint

Yokohama Parada Spec-2 Tires:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Parada+Spec-2

My question is, how will running 18x8 wheels all around impact traction? The standard setup is 18x8.5 in the front, and 18x9.5 in the back. The tire size would be the same as on the current 18x8.5 fronts, but would also be on the back as well. Would I need spacers in the rear? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Todd

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by ToddPhilly

So I'm looking into setting my 335 up for track use next summer. I don't want to run the RFT tires, so I thought I might purchase a set of rims/tires for track use only. For those of you who are track-saavy, what do you think of the following setup:

18x8" Sport Edition KM11 Wheels:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...atin+Sil+Paint

Yokohama Parada Spec-2 Tires:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Parada+Spec-2

My question is, how will running 18x8 wheels all around impact traction? The standard setup is 18x8.5 in the front, and 18x9.5 in the back. The tire size would be the same as on the current 18x8.5 fronts, but would also be on the back as well. Would I need spacers in the rear? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Todd

I personally think 18X8 on all four corners is too small. sg335 was doing a lot of test fitment..then I added another option..the 18X8.5 SSR competition wheels...He thinks some 18X9s can fit...with 245-35-18...maybe 245-40-18.

I am considering 235/40/18 and 245/35/18 R compounds.

[STE92VE]

You should ask this in the Wheel/Tire section.

[Russellnyc]

My advice for the track is to go for 17" and as lightweight as possible. You're going to go through a lot of tires, doing this will save you money and weight. You can get Kosei K1s in 17x8.5 for all four corners, push out the back wheels on spacers (if you need more rear track), and then a set of Yokohama A048s or AD07s (if you need to drive to and from the track in wet). I've seen a couple 335i coupes on the track with this setup and it seemed to work fine. I track my Elise and not my 335i, but I am entertaining the idea of using both cars (the Elise for near tracks and the 335i for far, since I don't have anywhere to keep a trailer, and driving the Elise for more than 4 hours is a beeyotch). If I do track the 335i, that's the route I'm going to take.

[ToddPhilly]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I personally think 18X8 on all four corners is too small. sg335 was doing a lot of test fitment..then I added another option..the 18X8.5 SSR competition wheels...He thinks some 18X9s can fit...with 245-35-18...maybe 245-40-18.

I am considering 235/40/18 and 245/35/18 R compounds.

Hmmm. Well both the 18x8 and 18x8.5 would use a 225-40-18 fitment. So is there really a huge advantage in paying way more $ for the 18x8.5 SSR's? I love those wheels, but I was trying to not spend a ton of cash on the wheel setup.

[ToddPhilly]

Originally Posted by Russellnyc

My advice for the track is to go for 17" and as lightweight as possible. You're going to go through a lot of tires, doing this will save you money and weight. You can get Kosei K1s in 17x8.5 for all four corners, push out the back wheels on spacers (if you need more rear track), and then a set of Yokohama A048s or AD07s (if you need to drive to and from the track in wet). I've seen a couple 335i coupes on the track with this setup and it seemed to work fine. I track my Elise and not my 335i, but I am entertaining the idea of using both cars (the Elise for near tracks and the 335i for far, since I don't have anywhere to keep a trailer, and driving the Elise for more than 4 hours is a beeyotch). If I do track the 335i, that's the route I'm going to take.

This sounds reasonable. I wonder why tirerack doesn't show 17" wheel options for my car??? Only shows 18,19, & 20. I'd love to put the A048's on there, but I've been told by quite a few track regulars to start out with street tires. I'm a beginner, and their logic was that street tires reach their limits of adhesion gradually, vs competition hold longer but break away fast.

Since you guys seem to know a lot about track setup, do you have any recommendations for suspension setup? I see tirerack (or bav auto I don't remember which now) has a Koni damper/Eibach Pro spring set for around $850. Is this worth it? Will it be better than stock? Is it worth the money for a full Bilstein coil-over setup?

[Russellnyc]

Originally Posted by ToddPhilly

This sounds reasonable. I wonder why tirerack doesn't show 17" wheel options for my car??? Only shows 18,19, & 20. I'd love to put the A048's on there, but I've been told by quite a few track regulars to start out with street tires. I'm a beginner, and their logic was that street tires reach their limits of adhesion gradually, vs competition hold longer but break away fast.

Since you guys seem to know a lot about track setup, do you have any recommendations for suspension setup? I see tirerack (or bav auto I don't remember which now) has a Koni damper/Eibach Pro spring set for around $850. Is this worth it? Will it be better than stock? Is it worth the money for a full Bilstein coil-over setup?

By the way, I don't know a lot about track setup but I have learned from some very experienced people. I agree with using street tires, I use them myself because the Elise doesn't have any room to carry a second set of wheels. Your mileage may vary, but I'd worry about getting a decent set for a good price rather than the absolute best. Conventional wisdom says that r compounds will only win you a second or two per lap over street tires. So if you're a novice, that's the kind of upgrade you just won't be able to exploit. If you do DE events and drive hard, you'll probably go through a set of tires in 3-4 events (others who have done it can correct me if I'm wrong). So by the time you know what you're doing, you'll be ready to buy a higher end set of tires. Driving on a track is so different than driving on the street, I wish someone had told me this before I got started. On the street you want wheels and tires that look good and feel grippy. On the track, you use up tires so quickly that all you want is cheap and light.

You can get 17" options from tirerack by selecting your car as the base model rather than sports package. The other advice I can give you is to wait on suspension mods until you've had a bit of experience. The stock sports package is a little soft for undulating roads (i.e. floaty) but very well balanced and predictable -- good for learning. If/when you get better, you'll want a stiffer suspension, but it's not really necessary until you've surpassed the limits of the stock setup. Having a really advanced race/sport type suspension as a novice can actually be bad, because it may do things you're not expecting, like oversteer more quickly.

My best advice is to sign up for a BMWCCA driver's education track day and bring your 335i with whatever set of lightweight wheels and grippy tires you can afford. Our car will run with the best of them just like that.

[ToddPhilly]

Originally Posted by Russellnyc

By the way, I don't know a lot about track setup but I have learned from some very experienced people. I agree with using street tires, I use them myself because the Elise doesn't have any room to carry a second set of wheels. Your mileage may vary, but I'd worry about getting a decent set for a good price rather than the absolute best. Conventional wisdom says that r compounds will only win you a second or two per lap over street tires. So if you're a novice, that's the kind of upgrade you just won't be able to exploit. If you do DE events and drive hard, you'll probably go through a set of tires in 3-4 events (others who have done it can correct me if I'm wrong). So by the time you know what you're doing, you'll be ready to buy a higher end set of tires. Driving on a track is so different than driving on the street, I wish someone had told me this before I got started. On the street you want wheels and tires that look good and feel grippy. On the track, you use up tires so quickly that all you want is cheap and light.

You can get 17" options from tirerack by selecting your car as the base model rather than sports package. The other advice I can give you is to wait on suspension mods until you've had a bit of experience. The stock sports package is a little soft for undulating roads (i.e. floaty) but very well balanced and predictable -- good for learning. If/when you get better, you'll want a stiffer suspension, but it's not really necessary until you've surpassed the limits of the stock setup. Having a really advanced race/sport type suspension as a novice can actually be bad, because it may do things you're not expecting, like oversteer more quickly.

My best advice is to sign up for a BMWCCA driver's education track day and bring your 335i with whatever set of lightweight wheels and grippy tires you can afford. Our car will run with the best of them just like that.

Well thanks very much for the thorough response! So far I've done one drivers ed event, but I did it with my father-in-law at a PCA event. I ran his full track setup 996 C4S...which is a monster. After one weekend, I became highly addicted. I think I'm going to go the route of just doing wheels/tires next year. As I get more experienced, I will consider suspension and harness mods. I was going to get the Schroth 4-pt quick fit harnesses that are designed to work with the stock BMW seats, but the PCA does not allow them. Since I will be doing events with my father-in-law and the PCA, I really need to make sure my setup is "legal" for both PCA and BMWCCA events.

Anyways, thanks again for the help. I'm doing watkins glen in the C4S in 2 weeks with PCA. I can't wait to get my car out there next year!

[Russellnyc]

That's great! I did a Watkins Glen BMWCCA DE in June and LOVED it. I ran the Elise, but that track is great for the 335i because it is really fast with long straights. There were a couple 335i coupes at that event and they were really fast.

I'm having the same dilemma with the harness question, I have been pretty much been scared away from 4 point harnesses by everyone who says they're dangerous, and in order to get a 5 point setup, I'm going to need new seats. Anyway, have fun!

[S4to335]

I personally would not suggest getting a scroth rallye 3 or 4 set up in a street car. Five or six point restraints prevent submarining..where you slide under the belts and collide with the dash. I had 5pt restrainst on my spec miata race car...but I also had a full roll cage. I still dont think getting restraints without a roll bar or roll cage is safe..if you turn over...and the roof smashes down..you have no where to swirm to. When you need 5-6pt restraints in your street car is the time when you need to by a dedicated track car.