[mengo816]

Just curious about the reliability of turbo cars. I plan to keep the 335i for a long time or at least until the redesign comes out. Anybody know how reliable the 335i is or any other experience with a different turbo car?

[F32Fleet]

Too New To Rate !!!!

[Spool]

never ever ever ever buy a first year production car to keep for a long time...esp. a BMW...

this is the testing year/beta if you will...if anything, lease this car, and buy like an 09 model...

[forrestpilot]

I had the same question when trying to decide to lease or buy. I have flown a number of airplanes with turbochargers. TBOs (time between overhauls) were significantly less and more expensive than normally aspirated engines. High temperatures, pressure, and shock cooling play hell on engine components. Most airplane engines use old technology and perform in a more demanding environment. Hopefully, today's auto engineers have figured out a solution.

[achien]

Originally Posted by Spool

never ever ever ever buy a first year production car to keep for a long time...esp. a BMW...

this is the testing year/beta if you will...if anything, lease this car, and buy like an 09 model...

The first year production car for the 93' Volvo 850 was good for ten (10) years. In fact, it was much better than my two (2) friends' Volvo 850 in subsequent years ('94, and '96).

They had seat belts fallen off, door handles, and door panels fallen off. My guess is the demand for the 850s were so high initially, QA became a bottleneck and issue for Volvo in subsequent years when consumers started jumping on the bandwagon.

[BM2006i]

Yes it is true the the first year production is one of the worse off the assembly line, being problematic. There is a good and bad side to this.
GOOD is that the manufacturerx try to give us the best parts for the car
BAD is that this is a testing year

Subsequent year models correct bugs, and at the same time, the manufacturers use cheaper material to replace the more expensive ones(ie. interieor of car).

Just my opinion..Is that correct? can someone confirm?

Originally Posted by Spool

never ever ever ever buy a first year production car to keep for a long time...esp. a BMW...

this is the testing year/beta if you will...if anything, lease this car, and buy like an 09 model...

[bartman32]

Had the first year e36 and e46. Kept the e36 for 7 years and e46 for 8. Now I have first year e92. So far I haven't had any problems with BMW which is one of the reasons why I keep coming back. I know some people have had major fuel pump issues and I'd definately be pissed about that so I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

[EDK99]

Originally Posted by Spool

never ever ever ever buy a first year production car to keep for a long time...esp. a BMW...

this is the testing year/beta if you will...if anything, lease this car, and buy like an 09 model...

Just an FYI the e90 is in its second year of production. 06 was the first year or beta test year as you call it. But if you are talking e92 then yes it is its first year.

Ed

[Spool]

Originally Posted by EK_335i

Just an FYI the e90 is in its second year of production. 06 was the first year or beta test year as you call it. But if you are talking e92 then yes it is its first year.

Ed

they have an 06 E90 335i?

[scollins]

Just because an engine has a turbo doesn't necessarily mean it won't last as long an an NA engine. It really depends on how the engine is built. Think of the turbo diesels out there from companies like Cummins. The factory warranty on the Dodge Cummins turbo diesel is 100,000 miles. Many of those Cummins turbo diesels go 300,000 miles before needed a major overhaul. Of course, the rest of the truck won't last that long without issues, but that engine is STOUT. I had 115,000 miles on mine when I sold it, and it was still extremely strong. The Cummins 5.9L is also a straight 6.

Not all turbo diesels are necessarily reliable though. Just look at the horrible offerings from GM years ago. I think those shitty engines killed the diesel market in the US, which is too bad.

Now, obviously our N54's aren't built like turbo diesels, but it is hard to get a read on how well built they are at this early stage in the game. Most of the problems I've heard about are bad fuel pumps, and now an occasional seal somewhere causing white smoke. But I don't necessarily think that the average turbo engine will be significantly different than the average NA one in terms of life span and reliability.

[The Cleaner]

Originally Posted by Spool

never ever ever ever buy a first year production car to keep for a long time...esp. a BMW...

this is the testing year/beta if you will...if anything, lease this car, and buy like an 09 model...

Massive generalization, and simply not based in fact. First year cars statistically have no more problems than any other year once out of warranty. Reason being all the problem of first year cars are fixed under warranty.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

Massive generalization, and simply not based in fact. First year cars statistically have no more problems than any other year once out of warranty. Reason being all the problem of first year cars are fixed under warranty.

Very true. My step dad has the first production year of the last model of the Volvo S70 before it got discontinued...over 200k miles now and still runs like a champ.

[dougman]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

Massive generalization, and simply not based in fact. First year cars statistically have no more problems than any other year once out of warranty. Reason being all the problem of first year cars are fixed under warranty.

Actually, the statistics do suggest that first-year car reliability is below that of later production. What's interesting, though, is that even these lower levels of reliability compared to later years are still light-years ahead of quality levels of ANY car only ten years ago. Single data points--i.e. what any one of us experienced, or heard from a friend, cannot reliably predict actual experiences. Today, a 5% failure rate would be considered catastrophic. But even if you had ten friends with that exact car, chances are that none of them would have a problem.

Consumer Reports’ auto-reliability surveys show that most newly designed models have more problems during their first model year than in the model year before or in the model years that follow. First-year models continue to have more problems as they age (see First-year designs & reliability). Our advice: Wait one or even two years before buying a new design until the manufacturer has had a chance to work out the bugs.

Most models change very little from year to year. But in a typical year, there can be 25 or more models that are either new or have undergone a major redesign. A redesign is often referred to as a new generation for that model and typically involves significant changes to the body, chassis, drivetrain, and interior.

For this report, we analyzed our reliability data for 79 models that were introduced new or underwent a redesign in the 2000 through 2002 model years. More than half had noticeably fewer problems in their second model year and about two-thirds had fewer problems in their third model year than in the model year in which the new design was introduced.

Moreover, about two-thirds of the redesigned models had more problems in the first model year of the new design than in the previous year’s version (the last year of the previous generation).

Overall, new and redesigned models averaged 41 problems per 100 vehicles in their first model year, compared with 33 and 29 problems for the second and third model year. That’s a 20- and 29-percent drop in problems, respectively. Similarly, redesigned models had an average 44-percent higher problem rate--or 11 more problems per 100 vehicles--than the previous model year.

Some models experience dramatic improvements in their second- and third-year problem rates. For example, the Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country minivan twins and the Chevrolet Suburban and GMC Yukon XL large-SUV twins had about 40 and 50 percent fewer problems in the second and third model year following their redesign than they did in the first model year.

Even models that have a track record of being consistently reliable can show a significant increase in the problem rate during the first year of a redesign. When the Toyota RAV4 was redesigned in 2001, its problem rate tripled, from only 13 problems per 100 vehicles for the previous-generation 2000 model to 39 problems for the redesign’s first year. Because Toyota was quick to make changes that improved reliability, the RAV4’s problem rate dropped back to 18 and 13 problems per 100 vehicles in the second and third years of the redesign.

Similarly, the Honda Civic, which had only 16 problems per 100 vehicles in model-year 2000, increased 81 percent, to 29 problems, when it was redesigned in 2001. It dropped back to 16 problems by the third model year of the redesign.


Crunching the numbers

The data in this report are based on hundreds of thousands of responses to our annual subscriber surveys, in which we asked vehicle owners to report any serious problems they had with their vehicles in the previous 12 months. We tracked the problem rates for 35 new and 44 redesigned models from our 2000 through 2004 surveys. Using the problem rates when each model was two years old, we compared the problems of the first model year of each new design with those of the second and third model years. In other words, if a model was introduced new in 2001, we compared its problem rate for that model year with the problem rates of the following 2002 and 2003 versions of that same model. For redesigned models, we also compared their first-model-year problem rates with the previous model year to see whether they had more problems than the version they replaced. For a previous or later model to be considered as having fewer problems, there must be at least a 15 percent difference. Not all 79 models we compared had second- or third-model-year data. In the latest survey (2004), we did not yet have third-model-year data for models introduced in 2002.[/SIZE]