[Cozy]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post here so I'll introduce myself briefly. My name is Jason, I'm from the South of England and I am on the verge of buying my first BMW. I was initially all set up to part with my money for an E46 M3 but I've fallen in love with the E92 335i (pre-2011 twin-turbo) instead, if for nothing more than its tunable N54 engine (I can't leave a car alone for 5mins). I've also come from a turbocharged car background so the transition will be easy. I've been doing some homework and gathering as much information as I can but I still have some unaswered questions that I hope you can help me with.

I've noticed that an M-Sport version of the 335i is around £3000 more expensive than an equivelent SE spec (used car), same condition, mileage, age etc but why is this? I was convinced to get the M-sport as let's be honest, it looks much better but realising the price difference I wonder if there is much point, perhaps you could tell me what the differences are between these models bar the exterior changes? I personally can't find any evidence to suggest the changes between specs lay anywhere else.

I've had a look at the suspension system on both and they seem to have the same 'm-sport' suspension made by Bilstein fitted so handling must be equally as good. The engines both produce the same power so that would rule out any major changes there too.

This brings me onto my next question, what is involved in replacing the SE bumpers with M-sport versions, straight swap or would I need grills, guides, fixings etc?

Finally, it seems that Stage 1 remaps (no other mods) offered by American tuners such as GIAC are able to achieve much higher performance numbers than those offered here in the U.K. For example Thorney Motorsport quote +40bhp at the flywheel where as GIAC seem to be able to hit 370bhp at the flywheel with 330bhp at the wheels respectively, why is this? The same goes for Stage 2 with full turbo-back exhaust, Thorney 370bhp (max) vs US 400bhp etc etc. I've read some info which suggests that some tuners achieve this by twisting the boost up to about 1.2bar where as others won't go higher than 0.9bar, is this the reason for the number difference? There are comments that boosting at over 1.0 bar on standard turbochargers will end their life quite quickly but I'm not sure how true this is.

Sorry to bash your ears/brains so badly and I hope you don't mind answering my queries . I look forward to making the purchase very soon and becoming a full time member of the community.


Jason

[zltm089]

welcome!

Yes it will have the same suspension as an M sport car....

Regarding tuning, very easy to tune and good gains if you go for a full remap.

I would buy the SE and fit an aero front lip.... ;-)

The extra money you pay for the m sport is really just the body kit...

[kdiz]

Originally Posted by JamJay

Hi everyone!

This is my first post here so I'll introduce myself briefly. My name is Jason, I'm from the South of England and I am on the verge of buying my first BMW. I was initially all set up to part with my money for an E46 M3 but I've fallen in love with the E92 335i (pre-2011 twin-turbo) instead, if for nothing more than its tunable N54 engine (I can't leave a car alone for 5mins). I've also come from a turbocharged car background so the transition will be easy. I've been doing some homework and gathering as much information as I can but I still have some unaswered questions that I hope you can help me with.

I've noticed that an M-Sport version of the 335i is around £3000 more expensive than an equivelent SE spec (used car), same condition, mileage, age etc but why is this? I was convinced to get the M-sport as let's be honest, it looks much better but realising the price difference I wonder if there is much point, perhaps you could tell me what the differences are between these models bar the exterior changes? I personally can't find any evidence to suggest the changes between specs lay anywhere else.

I've had a look at the suspension system on both and they seem to have the same 'm-sport' suspension made by Bilstein fitted so handling must be equally as good. The engines both produce the same power so that would rule out any major changes there too.

This brings me onto my next question, what is involved in replacing the SE bumpers with M-sport versions, straight swap or would I need grills, guides, fixings etc?

Finally, it seems that Stage 1 remaps (no other mods) offered by American tuners such as GIAC are able to achieve much higher performance numbers than those offered here in the U.K. For example Thorney Motorsport quote +40bhp at the flywheel where as GIAC seem to be able to hit 370bhp at the flywheel with 330bhp at the wheels respectively, why is this? The same goes for Stage 2 with full turbo-back exhaust, Thorney 370bhp (max) vs US 400bhp etc etc. I've read some info which suggests that some tuners achieve this by twisting the boost up to about 1.2bar where as others won't go higher than 0.9bar, is this the reason for the number difference? There are comments that boosting at over 1.0 bar on standard turbochargers will end their life quite quickly but I'm not sure how true this is.

Sorry to bash your ears/brains so badly and I hope you don't mind answering my queries . I look forward to making the purchase very soon and becoming a full time member of the community.


Jason

Your right mate SE has same suspention and sport seats that m sport has. I would say just roll with the SE and perhaps fit aero lip if that's your thing. I wouldnt bother fitting m sport bumpers etc.

As re-mapping goes a lot on here use Evolve or DMS for a traditional re-map, both get to about 370BHP.

There is also a very popular piggyback system which is hevily used in america and increasingly so in this country due to its affordability (being over £400 less than evolve) and it's constant development work. It also has additional features like clearing / reading error codes, map switching on the fly, custom maps, boost limits on each gear and autotuning etc etc etc.

[zltm089]

JB products have good reviews if you're after a piggy back tune...

[Kerr]

Is the M sport suspension on the SE not an opt out option, so there is a possibility it might not have m sport suspension?

[zltm089]

always good to get the dealer to check....i made sure that i asked my dealer a printout of the car's spec...

[AlanYoro35i]

The M sport will standard 18 225 are standard where as se u get the 5 spoke alloys

[phil200tdi]

I think you get an oil cooler on the m sport but not on se, which helps..

[kdiz]

Originally Posted by Kerr

Is the M sport suspension on the SE not an opt out option, so there is a possibility it might not have m sport suspension?

I'm not sure if it was on pre-lci ?? I don't recall seeing it on the car configurator although I may be wrong. I know on the LCI it's an option to take it off but it's on as default.

I have seen about 25x 335i for sale on bmw AUC and various sites and every single one had m sport suspention (pre lci) so if it was an option I think it's a safe bet pretty much everyone got it.

[AlanQS]

Pre LCI versions of E92: Equipment in addition or replacement to SE models:

18" light alloy style 193M staggered 18" wheels. (SE has staggered style 188, 17" alloys, V-Spoke - though very few 335i versions ever came with them).
Aluminium glacier silver interior trim instead of titanium metal finish
Blue shadow cloth/Alcantara upholstery (Very few of either model were sold without leather)
Door sill finishers with M designation (instead of "BMW")
High gloss shadowline exterior trim (instead of chrome)
Individual Anthracite headlining
M Aerodynamic package (different front and rear bumpers and side skirts)
M Sports suspension (but the 335i SE has this as standard anyway)
Shortened gearshift
Sports Seats (The 335i SE has these as standard as well)
Three-spoke M multi-function leather steering wheel (same as the SE wheel but marginally thicker and has a little "M" badge on it.)

As you can see, for the extra £3,000 you seem to be seeing in second hand prices - it's a con!

[pjs]

There is a very nice cheap well specced 335i se at Doncaster BMW for just over £15k.

[JJD]

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

I think you get an oil cooler on the m sport but not on se, which helps..

My SE has an oil cooler

Re suspension the coupe always had the M sport suspension (with opt out) although iirc up to a certain date it was listed as "sports" fuelling specualtion that it wasn't the same setup as M-Sport however BMW later confirmed it to be the same suspension.

Differences between SE and MSport in a pre LCI 335i E92 guise are purely cosmetic.

[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by kdiz

There is also a very popular piggyback system which is hevily used in america and increasingly so in this country due to its affordability (being over £400 less than evolve) and it's constant development work.

Just to point out that my Evolve remap on my 335i only cost £500....I doubt that a JB3 can be £400 less? Imran at Evolve tells me they develop their map too.

To the OP - when you get your 335i, get yourself up to Luton and get the stage 1 Evolve remap, you won't regret it.

Mike.

[Yahoo]

Tuners in the US are happier to push boost higher in the UK - as you would expect really.

I would recommend going no higher then 1 bar on stock turbos. Other gains can easily be had at a later date with an FMIC and catless DPs. 420-440 bhp is easily and safely achievable on a stage 3 setup.

Good luck with your hunt - I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

[Cozy]

Thanks everyone for posting up and helping me out, you've given me more than I've asked for

Based on what you've told me, there is no arguement to get an M-Sport spec 335i so thank you, you've saved me a chunk of money which I'll most likely plough into modifications. I'll admit that I'm not as keen on the SE wheels as the M-Sports but that's easily changed .

I had no idea that an aero lip was available for the SE bumper, this is great news and in my opinion looks better than the M-Sport front end so will be the styling route that I take. I may still opt for the M-Sport rear bumper if I can find one but the SE one looks great too, perhaps just lacking a diffuser but we'll see. I've noticed that the most popular upgrade for the side skirts are M3 skirts, are these hard to come by at all?

I'll look further into Evolve & this JB4 unit, it sounds similar to the Bluefin system so will be a nice thing to have.

I'm going to be viewing some of these cars throughout this month so hopefully I'll find a good local example but if not, I'm prepared to wait for the right one. I imagine that most people who will have bought a car like this wouldn't have been aware of the warm up/cool down process for turbochargers so I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open when inspecting. No matter if it takes a while, my currect car is still a lot of fun but I'll be sad to see her go.

Thanks again .

[idnan]

Have a read about the common issues that the 335i's suffer from and just look out for the signs. Anything with rattling wastegates or HPFP problems/poor starting should be avoided especially if out of warranty.

Definately take your time, I was gutted to miss out on the first one I saw but I ended up buying the fourth one I saw and it was by far the best.

[ed335d]

Here's a couple of pictures of my SE with and without the Aero lip.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258350

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by idnan

Have a read about the common issues that the 335i's suffer from and just look out for the signs. Anything with rattling wastegates or HPFP problems/poor starting should be avoided especially if out of warranty.

Definately take your time, I was gutted to miss out on the first one I saw but I ended up buying the fourth one I saw and it was by far the best.

I'll check them out, thanks. I've got pretty good mechanical knowledge and the help of my Dad (mechanic) to spot potential issues but it's good to know what to look out for.

I heard that pre-2007 335i's i.e. 56 plate were recalled for a major engine issue? I would ideally like MY 2008> but the prices of the earlier MY 56/07 are hard to ignore in comparison in some places.

Originally Posted by ed335d

Here's a couple of pictures of my SE with and without the Aero lip.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258350

That looks fantastic, tranforms the look completely and is exactly what I am after.

Dare I say it, the Vorsteiner wide arch kit for the M3 looks so good but I wouldn't like to guess its price tag . I'm not too keen on the Autovogue look personally so this lip should set it off just right.

[Yahoo]

Remember that an extra £3k spent on an msport spec will still be in the car come resale (or a large proportion of it will be) - it isn't money down the pan. Money spent on modifications will depreciate far quicker then equivalent amount of money spent on buying better OEM spec'd car.

I'm not saying that SE isn't for you - but it is not realistic to say that you will automatically lose £3k by going for an msport 335i.

[kdiz]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

Remember that an extra £3k spent on an msport spec will still be in the car come resale (or a large proportion of it will be) - it isn't money down the pan. Money spent on modifications will depreciate far quicker then equivalent amount of money spent on buying better OEM spec'd car.

I'm not saying that SE isn't for you - but it is not realistic to say that you will automatically lose £3k by going for an msport 335i.

Nah obviously wont be like losing the £3k but I think what OP ment was why spend £3k on some visual asthetics if you like the SE.

I baught an SE as well for the same reason, I ended up getting a great SE with low miles and amazing spec for the same price as an m sport with average miles and average spec.

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

Remember that an extra £3k spent on an msport spec will still be in the car come resale (or a large proportion of it will be) - it isn't money down the pan. Money spent on modifications will depreciate far quicker then equivalent amount of money spent on buying better OEM spec'd car.

I'm not saying that SE isn't for you - but it is not realistic to say that you will automatically lose £3k by going for an msport 335i.

I hear what you're saying and completely agree, it works the same for special editions of the same model across other marques. How something is branded has a lot to do with how much people are prepared to pay for it, a name or a badge is sometimes enough to settle some people's ego's & desires but I tend to look a little further than skin deep with most things and a little 'M' badge is neither here nor there, I just preferred the body styling but this was before I knew about the aero lip .

Originally Posted by kdiz

Nah obviously wont be like losing the £3k but I think what OP ment was why spend £3k on some visual asthetics if you like the SE.

I baught an SE as well for the same reason, I ended up getting a great SE with low miles and amazing spec for the same price as an m sport with average miles and average spec.

Nail & head

I never buy a car with consideration of its resale value, I buy it to enjoy it at a spec that suits me. I will maticulously clean it, service, modify it in the best possible way and use quality parts but this is for my enjoyment, so be it if I sell it and the next owner reaps the benefits. This is true for my current car, whoever gets it will have something very special, I just hope they appreciate it.

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by JamJay

I never buy a car with consideration of its resale value, I buy it to enjoy it at a spec that suits me. I will maticulously clean it, service, modify it in the best possible way and use quality parts but this is for my enjoyment, so be it if I sell it and the next owner reaps the benefits. This is true for my current car, whoever gets it will have something very special, I just hope they appreciate it.

In this case, I think you will find the 335i a great platform.

It is extremely tunable and turns the N54 platform into a fantastic motor. Suspension wise, there are plenty of possibilities too - I wouldn't look any further then a lot of OEM M3 parts that are available out there. They are great value for money and transform a sporty car into a proper high performance car.

Little things like the CDV delete, M3 strut brace, M3 rear bushes etc help transform the car as much as the biggies like a tune, springs / dampers, catless downpipes and FMIC.

Do lots of reading and ask the right questions before you make your decisions and I'm sure you'll be just fine.