Observation: Switch from RFT to Non-RFT

iwanna335 · 02-10-2011, 07:41 PM

I just dumped my stock Bridgestone Potenza RE050A for some Continental Extreme Contact DW.
First impression is there is a little more grip (can't say it is vastly better) but there is A LOT of roll. Since the Conti's aren't RFT and the side wall being softer the ride is better for sure, but I miss that planted sure feel when taking a turn at speed. I can't say it is these specific tires or just the fact they are non run flat, but it is going to take some time to get used to the new feel.

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A
Good:
run flat (duh)
more stable feel at speed
Bad:
Cost
Ride gets jittery

Continental Extreme Contact DW
Good:
Quieter
More overall grip
Less Expensive
Bad:
less stable feel(tire rolls over more)

Black Gold · 02-10-2011, 08:16 PM

its weird........i did the same swap, and felt the same thing. my steering feels a bit looser and the car does feel like its more willing to roll. i was wondering if it had something to do with the alignment or something like that (not a suspension expert)

i will be installing coils tomorrow so maybe this will change. but to be honest, the ride comfort is so vastly improved its worth it

hipnotic · 02-10-2011, 08:47 PM

the ride is so much better without rft

Fraggy · 02-10-2011, 11:20 PM

Yup, changing tires does cause that roll. In the old days, we all argued whether the car was really "engineered" for RFTs, or if it was being "marketed" for RFTs. I think its pretty clear now that it was engineered for RFTs, hence so many are choosing to upgrade to M3 bushing to get the tight feeling, crisp, handling back once switching to conventional tires and/or stiffer suspensions.

Bleep · 02-11-2011, 12:26 AM

I remember reading that the DWS tires needs to have a higher tire pressure than most tires, and that if you raise the psi a bit it somewhat mitigates the problem introduced by the softer sidewalls and a lot of the roll goes away.

iwanna335 · 02-11-2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraggy

Yup, changing tires does cause that roll. In the old days, we all argued whether the car was really "engineered" for RFTs, or if it was being "marketed" for RFTs. I think its pretty clear now that it was engineered for RFTs, hence so many are choosing to upgrade to M3 bushing to get the tight feeling, crisp, handling back once switching to conventional tires and/or stiffer suspensions.

I haven't read those threads, but I would argue that it was definitely designed with RFT mind! I will look into the M3 bushing as I really miss that "tight ride" that I had!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleep

I remember reading that the DWS tires needs to have a higher tire pressure than most tires, and that if you raise the psi a bit it somewhat mitigates the problem introduced by the softer sidewalls and a lot of the roll goes away.

These are the DW not DWS but adding pressure to any tire will tighten up the side walls, but you really reduce the tire life.

Fraggy · 02-11-2011, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwanna335

I haven't read those threads, but I would argue that it was definitely designed with RFT mind! I will look into the M3 bushing as I really miss that "tight ride" that I had!

It was years ago when the car was new and few if any had even tried conventional tires yet on the e90 yet.

MikesBMW · 02-11-2011, 08:29 AM

I just bought DW tires, I wont put them on till spring, but I will make sure to write a review, everything I read before this thread talked about how amazing they are

335BBS · 02-11-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwanna335

I just dumped my stock Bridgestone Potenza RE050A for some Continental Extreme Contact DW.
First impression is there is a little more grip (can't say it is vastly better) but there is A LOT of roll. Since the Conti's aren't RFT and the side wall being softer the ride is better for sure, but I miss that planted sure feel when taking a turn at speed. I can't say it is these specific tires or just the fact they are non run flat, but it is going to take some time to get used to the new feel.

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A
Good:
run flat (duh)
more stable feel at speed
Bad:
Cost
Ride gets jittery

Continental Extreme Contact DW
Good:
Quieter
More overall grip
Less Expensive
Bad:
less stable feel(tire rolls over more)

I hear that the DW is a good tire but wouldnt the Contact 3, the new 5 or Michelin PS2 handle better and eliminate some of this roll?

SHOWTIME · 02-11-2011, 08:40 AM

Damnn...just when I thought I had it all set with getting 19" non-rft, I gotta hear this.

iwanna335 · 02-11-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaker

I hear that the DW is a good tire but wouldnt the Contact 3, the new 5 or Michelin PS2 handle better and eliminate some of this roll?

I initially wanted the PS2's, but the Conti's saved me $500. I don't doubt the PS2 is a better overall tire for the 335, but many reviews and test show the DW as good if not better.
As for the Contact 3 I didn't see any data supporting me going that route plus the DW is newer....isn't it?

Airnow · 02-11-2011, 09:57 AM

Ride will be smoother without rft

flip4335 · 02-11-2011, 10:11 AM

Increase the tire pressure to the recommended specs when driving up to and over 100mph.

The label on my door reads (others might vary slightly, depending upon model year): For travel up to and over 100mph, use the following tire pressure:

39psi/45psi Front/Rear

That should tighten your ride on non-RFTs. Besides, DWs are inexpensive.

Follow your gut...on what you think is best.

Mr. ///M3 RD · 02-11-2011, 10:23 AM

Right now I am running on my winter wheel. The tires are Michelin ICE 225/40/R18 0n all four corners. From the Summer set RFT that are now stored I can only say ...

It feels like a brand new car, the difference is best described "Like Night and Day"

mjm22 · 02-11-2011, 12:54 PM

I also got rid of my run flats (brigestone). The tires I put on are Pilot A/S Plus. They are smoother and I have not noticed any sacrifice in perfomance.

axis · 02-11-2011, 02:38 PM

You need to remember that your brand new DWs are going to take time to break in and wear off the release agent for around 500 miles.. and also that your new tires have full tread whereas the runflats were probably a lot lower on tread. Until you wear off the release agent, the tires will feel very squirmy. I just got some DWs myself coming from the runflats and have been driving on them for around a week now and they are def starting to feel better already.

iwanna335 · 02-11-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axis

You need to remember that your brand new DWs are going to take time to break in and wear off the release agent for around 500 miles.. and also that your new tires have full tread whereas the runflats were probably a lot lower on tread. Until you wear off the release agent, the tires will feel very squirmy. I just got some DWs myself coming from the runflats and have been driving on them for around a week now and they are def starting to feel better already.

Good to know thanks!! I am worried about the high speed stability, or lack there of I have experienced with the DW's so far. Hopefully it will improve.

driverman · 02-17-2011, 04:29 AM

My DW's felt very soft when I first got them but they feel great now that they have thousands of miles. Huge difference between new and after a few thousand files - much bigger than I expected. Great combination of ride, handling and low noise, even with stock tire pressure.

I've had the original Bridgestone RFTs, PS2's and now the DW's. I like the DW's the best, even though I lost some steering response when I switched out the RFT's. The improvement in ride and lower noise more than make up for the loss of steering response after they are fully broken in. There's a reason the DW's and DWS's are at the top of the user surveys on tirerack - they are great tires. Bravo Continental.

dcorn · 02-17-2011, 08:02 AM

Just bought some non-RFT's yesterday, can't wait to get em put on.

This loss in steering feel is well documented and should be expected if you know anything about tires in general.

Gary@TireRack · 02-17-2011, 10:39 AM

Even when replacing tires with the exact same brand name and model of tire one will feel slower steering response due to the new tires having full tread depth. That being said, it is true that non run flat tires, in general, will have a bit slower steering response.

Tires
http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AH8&...ires/index.jsp

Lenaxia · 02-17-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwanna335

These are the DW not DWS but adding pressure to any tire will tighten up the side walls, but you really reduce the tire life.

Really? I'd imagine that the tire life would be more or less increased with higher pressure because it causes lower rolling resistance and thus less wear because less of the tire is in contact with the road.

How does an increase of pressure wear down the tire more?

classy335i · 02-21-2011, 12:44 AM

Driverman, did you lose steering feel and experience more rolling going from RE050 RFTs to Michelin PS2 non-RFTs?

I am thinking of going from RE050 RFTs to PS2 non-RFTs. I really do not want to lose that "planted feel" for lane changing and taking turns at maximum speed because that is one of the things I really enjoy with the 335i.

02-10-2011, 07:41 PM	#1
iwanna335 Lieutenant 20 Rep 440 Posts Drives: '07 E90 SGM, ZSP, 6m, Nav Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canton, GA iTrader: (1)	Observation: Switch from RFT to Non-RFT I just dumped my stock Bridgestone Potenza RE050A for some Continental Extreme Contact DW. First impression is there is a little more grip (can't say it is vastly better) but there is A LOT of roll. Since the Conti's aren't RFT and the side wall being softer the ride is better for sure, but I miss that planted sure feel when taking a turn at speed. I can't say it is these specific tires or just the fact they are non run flat, but it is going to take some time to get used to the new feel. Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Good: run flat (duh) more stable feel at speed Bad: Cost Ride gets jittery Continental Extreme Contact DW Good: Quieter More overall grip Less Expensive Bad: less stable feel(tire rolls over more) __________________ 2007 E90 SGM..ZSP..6 man..NAV..Logic7...Sleeper
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02-10-2011, 08:16 PM	#2
Black Gold Major General 592 Rep 5,396 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (15)	its weird........i did the same swap, and felt the same thing. my steering feels a bit looser and the car does feel like its more willing to roll. i was wondering if it had something to do with the alignment or something like that (not a suspension expert) i will be installing coils tomorrow so maybe this will change. but to be honest, the ride comfort is so vastly improved its worth it
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02-10-2011, 08:47 PM	#3
hipnotic Major General 149 Rep 6,604 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (7) Garage List 2008 335i coupe [7.00]	the ride is so much better without rft
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02-10-2011, 11:20 PM	#4
Fraggy Brigadier General 193 Rep 3,469 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego iTrader: (11)	Yup, changing tires does cause that roll. In the old days, we all argued whether the car was really "engineered" for RFTs, or if it was being "marketed" for RFTs. I think its pretty clear now that it was engineered for RFTs, hence so many are choosing to upgrade to M3 bushing to get the tight feeling, crisp, handling back once switching to conventional tires and/or stiffer suspensions. __________________ 2016 Alpine White M3 (gone) 2019 Alfa Romeo Guilia (Totaled) 2020 Car-less 😁 (no more) 2020 M340
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02-11-2011, 12:26 AM	#5
Bleep First Lieutenant 9 Rep 369 Posts Drives: 3 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	I remember reading that the DWS tires needs to have a higher tire pressure than most tires, and that if you raise the psi a bit it somewhat mitigates the problem introduced by the softer sidewalls and a lot of the roll goes away.
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02-11-2011, 08:29 AM	#8
MikesBMW Banned 318 Rep 1,410 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio iTrader: (1) Garage List 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00] 2017 BMW X1 [0.00]	I just bought DW tires, I wont put them on till spring, but I will make sure to write a review, everything I read before this thread talked about how amazing they are
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02-11-2011, 08:40 AM	#10
SHOWTIME Lieutenant 42 Rep 586 Posts Drives: 2011 335i Coupe M-Sport Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Westchester, NY iTrader: (0)	Damnn...just when I thought I had it all set with getting 19" non-rft, I gotta hear this.
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02-11-2011, 09:57 AM	#12
Airnow New Member 0 Rep 9 Posts Drives: E93 335i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Singapore iTrader: (0)	Ride will be smoother without rft
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02-11-2011, 10:11 AM	#13
flip4335 General Nuisance in a Private Conveyance 77 Rep 1,907 Posts Drives: like it's rented Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: behind the wheel iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW e90 335i [7.30]	Increase the tire pressure to the recommended specs when driving up to and over 100mph. The label on my door reads (others might vary slightly, depending upon model year): For travel up to and over 100mph, use the following tire pressure: 39psi/45psi Front/Rear That should tighten your ride on non-RFTs. Besides, DWs are inexpensive. Follow your gut...on what you think is best. __________________ BMWCCA Member # 414198 \|E90\|SGM\|6MT\|Premium\|Cold\|Sport\|Tint\|LCI MSport Conversion\|MTech\|Blacklines\|219M\|PSS\|Quaife\|Helix FMIC\|M3 Suspension\|Megan Racing\|GC Camber Plates/Coilovers\|Eibach 440/800#\|AR Catted DP\|Cobb AP\|StopTech Drilled/Slotted\|SS Brake Lines\|DWS Quaife Review: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311570
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02-11-2011, 10:23 AM	#14
Mr. ///M3 RD Happy Camper 613 Rep 7,869 Posts Drives: C63 AMG & 280 SL on Weekends : Join Date: May 2010 Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 1969 Restored Merce ... [7.50] 2011 M3 Coupe TRADED [7.34] 1987 BMW 535is [1.00] Cars from the Past [6.50] The ///M3 Engine S65 [9.59]	Right now I am running on my winter wheel. The tires are Michelin ICE 225/40/R18 0n all four corners. From the Summer set RFT that are now stored I can only say ... It feels like a brand new car, the difference is best described "Like Night and Day" __________________ Cheers, Rolf-Dieter Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well, now my C6.3 AMG with 487 HP does it too ---> Click here for some good stuff I found
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02-11-2011, 12:54 PM	#15
mjm22 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 35 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	I also got rid of my run flats (brigestone). The tires I put on are Pilot A/S Plus. They are smoother and I have not noticed any sacrifice in perfomance.
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02-11-2011, 02:38 PM	#16
axis First Lieutenant 18 Rep 345 Posts Drives: 2019 430i Gran Coupe Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida iTrader: (2)	You need to remember that your brand new DWs are going to take time to break in and wear off the release agent for around 500 miles.. and also that your new tires have full tread whereas the runflats were probably a lot lower on tread. Until you wear off the release agent, the tires will feel very squirmy. I just got some DWs myself coming from the runflats and have been driving on them for around a week now and they are def starting to feel better already.
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02-17-2011, 04:29 AM	#18
driverman Captain 38 Rep 715 Posts Drives: 2008 328i 6MT - SOLD Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: El Dorado Hills, CA iTrader: (0)	My DW's felt very soft when I first got them but they feel great now that they have thousands of miles. Huge difference between new and after a few thousand files - much bigger than I expected. Great combination of ride, handling and low noise, even with stock tire pressure. I've had the original Bridgestone RFTs, PS2's and now the DW's. I like the DW's the best, even though I lost some steering response when I switched out the RFT's. The improvement in ride and lower noise more than make up for the loss of steering response after they are fully broken in. There's a reason the DW's and DWS's are at the top of the user surveys on tirerack - they are great tires. Bravo Continental.
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02-17-2011, 08:02 AM	#19
dcorn Captain 77 Rep 940 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 335i Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NoVA iTrader: (2)	Just bought some non-RFT's yesterday, can't wait to get em put on. This loss in steering feel is well documented and should be expected if you know anything about tires in general.
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02-17-2011, 10:39 AM	#20
Gary@TireRack Moderator 369 Rep 4,745 Posts Drives: Formerly 1995 M3 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Bend, IN, Tire Rack HQ iTrader: (2)	Even when replacing tires with the exact same brand name and model of tire one will feel slower steering response due to the new tires having full tread depth. That being said, it is true that non run flat tires, in general, will have a bit slower steering response. Tires http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AH8&...ires/index.jsp __________________ Gary. Tire and Wheel Forum Moderator. Tire Rack Sales Rep Gary@Tirerack.com http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AH8&url=index.jsp Please refer to 'Gary/E90 Post' as your previous contact when you order online to help support this forum.
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02-21-2011, 12:44 AM	#22
classy335i Private 6 Rep 60 Posts Drives: e92 SG 335i Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	Driverman, did you lose steering feel and experience more rolling going from RE050 RFTs to Michelin PS2 non-RFTs? I am thinking of going from RE050 RFTs to PS2 non-RFTs. I really do not want to lose that "planted feel" for lane changing and taking turns at maximum speed because that is one of the things I really enjoy with the 335i.
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