[the_rangdo]

Feeling a bit hacked off at the mo so thought I'd vent on here and maybe get some calmer thoughts/opinions.

I had a 2008 E90 320i auto for near on 18 months, loved the car but as the 320i thread will show the inherent engine problems eventually caught me up.

Partly because of that, but also for family practicality and economy due to commute distances, I switched to a 2010 E91 318d. It had 5000 on the clock when I picked it up in Nov, now it's got all of 7500 on the clock and the clutch judder is there.

It spent 1 day at the dealer for investigation in Dec where they confirmed they can replicate it, and then rebooked it in for 2 days to allegedly strip, investigate further and replace if necessary. That 2 days was last Thurs/Fri, went to pick it up and all they've done is the ECU reprogram that raises the revs and a road test says it's fixed.

Moved the car today up the drive, judder again So I need to take it in once more for them to do something but from reading up on the issue there's every chance it'll repeat at some point.

Is it me, is this what I should expect from a premium car? Even on the day I picked it up, by the time I got home there was horrendous knocking coming from the drivers door which I later found out was the infamous door seal creak. Back to the dealers, they 'de-silicon-ed' the seal and all was fine for a couple of days. Since then I've found stuff that works nicely (Carbaflo)

I realise all mechanical things can have issues but I principally want a reliable car as most of my driving is the daily grind/commute. I had a Mazda 323 for 7 years and only visited the dealers every 12k miles for a service yet I feel like I'm at the BMW dealers far too regularly. 5 weeks into ownership of this one and I've been without it for 3 days so far with no resolution. And I'm spending a lot of internet time researching issues as they come up too.

At the moment I'm seriously thinking of switching to another car, not entirely sure what but the Ford Mondeo looks a good option, it's in the right price range (£20k-ish) and generally seemes well reviewed.

Am I being rash, should I hang on until the 3 year warranty is up, should I just suffer the judder as in all other aspects while not being a powerhouse of a motor I do enjoy driving it? I can't find any inherent Mondeo issues but are they just as bad/worse, are the reliable days of motoring gone forever

I try and do as much research as possible into something before I buy but there's a limit to what you feel you should search for isn't there? The 320i issue I read about after I bought it; kept fingers crossed for 18 months but ultimately in vain. I only read about the clutch judder after I'd picked this one up

I'm wavering guys, help me out

[SteveF1]

I had the clutch judder on my 320d which I am reliably told is even worse on the 320d than it is on the 318 due to more torque strain.

I had mine looked at in Feb 2010 by Bowker Preston and after stripping it down they found the dual mass flywheel was warped and had leaked oil all over the clutch contaminating it both beyond repair. They replaced both under warranty and reprogrammed the ECU to increase the revs.

Within months the problem was back albeit slightly less apparent. I still feel it to this day, especially on hill starts or when I've been sat at a junction for a while holding the revs against the clutch. Its poor for a premium product and long with my many other problems that I've had with my car I am too looking at a different car and would never buy a BMW again.

I feel BMWs are overrated, all badge and no substance and to say I have a rapport with the dealer service staff is a poor indictment of the BMW brand.

This car is without doubt the most troublesome, problematic, annoying, frustrating and worst experience of car ownership I have had. I had a dash rattle in the 2008 R32 I bought back in 2009 and felt that was a major problem at the time. If I knew what I do now I would have kept it and stayed well clear of the BM.

There is an E90 Post forum full of problem threads for a reason....

[zltm089]

I think BMW need to focus a little bit more on reliability now...

I had a peugeot 406 and never had a single issue....never done any servicing (only 1 oil service) ...just changed the tyres over the 5-6 years of ownership!.....abused it from cold, on the motorway, and carried some really heavy stuff when i helped my friend moved out of uni... NOT problem!...

but then again....handling was shit and it looked shit!...

[the_rangdo]

Originally Posted by zltm089

but then again....handling was shit

And that's something I've got to look forward to come March time. The first trip I did in this car was to get the winter wheels fitted so up-to-now I've had a nice comfy ride on 16" winter tyres.

While it was being (not) de-juddered last week I got a 3-door 118i - ignoring how completely gutless the engine felt (which surprised me quite a bit), the 18" run-flats were horrendous by comparison, 2 days of bone-shaking. And quite a few rattles on the car too, somewhere around the dash and horrible sounding door shuts courtesy of the windows.

At least my summer wheels are mere 17"-ers and the test drive around Rochdale's roughest roads felt o.k. with them but I've been spoiled by my winter wheels for a few weeks now

[SteveF1]

I don't want to be the sound of doom and gloom but expect to have a similar ride experience as you have with the 1 series. In fact I've used that very loan car a number of times from Williams Rochdale and found it rides better than my 320d any day of the week (thats only a sport, not M sport) so come your tyre change over expect the worst and expect the dash to begin rattling after being punished by the harsh ride.

Your saving grace is that you have one of the newer 3 series with a more compliant ride, mine is one of the original ones with literally bone shattering ride quality.

[the_rangdo]

Well depending on my mood of the day if I get to March with this car and the tyres are a shocking difference then I'll switch to having CSC-3s fitted - I had those on my 320i following some Ultrac Sessantas and was happy with them.

[p0jy]

are these cars really that bad. i have just bought an e90 and this post and others is making me really worried...

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by SteveF1

Your saving grace is that you have one of the newer 3 series with a more compliant ride, mine is one of the original ones with literally bone shattering ride quality.

That's a bit harsh Steve! My old 06 330i was the most beautifully damped car i've ever had.

The newer ones are a wobbly underdamped mess by comparison. I never had a single 'crash' on the old car, just reasurring thwumps!

Whereas the LCI car was a horror of flailing wheels over bumps.

Just a thought, having driven several 4 pot 3ers, it feels like they are built to a lower standard than the 6 pots. More rattles, less sound proofing, rubber gearboxes, lighter controls, thinner carpets etc.

[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by SteveF1

I feel BMWs are overrated, all badge and no substance and to say I have a rapport with the dealer service staff is a poor indictment of the BMW brand.

This car is without doubt the most troublesome, problematic, annoying, frustrating and worst experience of car ownership I have had.

There is an E90 Post forum full of problem threads for a reason....

Steve, I feel your pain brother! Thing is though, every forum I've visited has exactly the same posts......this brand is unreliable, the dealers are hopeless, never buying this brand again. Try the Toyota RAV4 forum and search under "dual mass flywheel" - you'd be scared off RAV4's for sure (well diesel ones anyhow).

I suppose I could start a "hey, my BMW has been totally reliable and I'd buy another" thread but even I'm not that dull!

So I don't doubt your unhappy experience at all, just wondering if you've been very unlucky? And thinking maybe forums like this give a skewed view?

Hope 2011 gets a motoring smile back on your face though.

Mike.

[the_rangdo]

H

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Steve, I feel your pain brother! Thing is though, every forum I've visited has exactly the same posts......this brand is unreliable, the dealers are hopeless, never buying this brand again. Try the Toyota RAV4 forum and search under "dual mass flywheel" - you'd be scared off RAV4's for sure (well diesel ones anyhow).

I suppose I could start a "hey, my BMW has been totally reliable and I'd buy another" thread but even I'm not that dull!

So I don't doubt your unhappy experience at all, just wondering if you've been very unlucky? And thinking maybe forums like this give a skewed view?

Hope 2011 gets a motoring smile back on your face though.

Mike.

And that really is the problem with forums, like you say generally people only post problems.

I'm just stuck for what to do, I've owned it for 5 weeks, been without for 3 days so far. If I take it back and get them to replace the clutch by all accounts the issue will return anyway. But grass isn't always greener either nearly every alternative I think of I can turn up issues too.

I really didn't anticipate being on first name terms with half the staff there, they do make good sandwiches though. Maybe I should just go Korean , I haven't the free time to keep arranging dealer visits.

[SteveF1]

Originally Posted by doughboy

That's a bit harsh Steve! My old 06 330i was the most beautifully damped car i've ever had.

The newer ones are a wobbly underdamped mess by comparison. I never had a single 'crash' on the old car, just reasurring thwumps!

Whereas the LCI car was a horror of flailing wheels over bumps.

By all accounts BMW have changed the specs of cars with pretty much every manufacture date/plate change so driving your 06 will be a complete world away from mine etc. If thats the case we are never really comparing eggs with eggs.

I found that mine crashes over even the slightest bump, potholes I just cringe at and people behind me must think I'm pissed as I generally drive weaving across the road missing the many holes. Even the 17" winter tyres can't mask the brutality of the stiff setup, on my 19s its literally the poorest ride experience I've ever had but the 19s do look good. Its even worse than my R32 which was supple in comparison.

The LCI M sports I've driven have generally been much softer and less likely to crash over potholes. I've never thrown them around to see whether they wobble in bends but day to day I found them much easier to live with. In reality I only bought an M sport because of the way it looks, who needs such a stiff ride or a car that can take a corner like its at the Nurburgring?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by SteveF1

In reality I only bought an M sport because of the way it looks, who needs such a stiff ride or a car that can take a corner like its at the Nurburgring?

I think your comment sums up a lot of the BMW experience. It is the 'fashion over form' situation.

I know there are a few forum members who are down on the latest softened setups, but typically, most BMW drivers don't need, or even want the hard setups, they just come with the models. Quite a few have become vocal about the poor setups of recent years.

Even BMW are coming to their senses, that they have gone too far, softening the 3 and 5 series cars. Putting a bit of comfort back. A few hard core enthusiasts may see this as a weakness, but it's an evidence that the trend to 'sporty' and to me 'hard', 'crashy' is a a pseudo sporty anyway, has gone too far. It's not only BMW either. So easy to put stiff springs and big rimmed low profile tyres on a car and call it sporty, but it's a cheap marketing ploy if we are not careful. The M-sport suspension is 'tuned', but not for the typical UK roads we drive.

You are also right about the cars being so varied across the builds, models etc., we are not comparing eggs with eggs.

HighlandPete

[doughboy]

Yep, they do change things so often, its hard to compare anything.

Steve, I feel bad for you, it must be really frustrating all the issues you have.

I really honestly feel my current 3er (with modded suspension) is the best car I've ever had.

It has no rattles or squeaks (except the rear load cover shelf which was fixed with some felt pads).
It has a fabulous engine & transmission
It is a comfortable quiet place to be
Everything works great
It is perfectly reliable (touch wood, bar the fuel pump)

I had the fuel pump issue, which was a little frustrating, but second try it was replaced under warranty, no questions at all, despite my mods and non BMW history from new (they never checked the history anyway, so it might never have been serviced for all they knew.

Sorry for being boring!

[the_rangdo]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Sorry for being boring!

I want boring. Booked in in 2 weeks time for another 2 days to strip the clutch which they should have done last week, that was why it was in for 2 day, not a poxy reprogram which could have been done on the first day they had it where they confirmed it could be replicated rather than a complete new booking that feels like it goes back to square 1

The car I am happy with generally, I'm glad the suspension has been softened - getting out of my 2008 M-Sport on Conti non-RFT into this one for the test drive on Bridgestone RFT I expected hard and crashy and was pleasantly surprised, and as most of my driving is commuting I welcome the increased comfort.

Now the door seals have been silenced the rest of the car is smooth and quiet and performs well enough for my needs. I just don't want to have to visit the dealer again until either I need more screenwash or the 12k miles on the service info has elapsed.

It's niggles like this that can ruin the experience.

[SteveF1]

The worst bit about it all is that I actually want to like my car, its behaving like a wife that hates me and wants a divorce because it just keeps throwing one problem after another at me.

Its also the only car I have modded and spent an absolute fortune on and yet given me the most problems.

Says it all.

[HighlandPete]

I had issues with my current car, had too many garage visits and spent too many days off the road. My view, it had issues, but so do most cars, so once sorted we hoped to have a bit better an experience.

Since getting the car sorted, it has grown on me much more than I expected. In fact I love driving it now and even though I'm in a position to change, I'm holding back. That says something.

HighlandPete

[andyp74199]

Forums sometimes paint a negative picture but if every happy bmw customer started a thread the site would collapse!

Anyway in the interests of balance ive had a very positive experience of BMW ownership. Ive never had clutch judder on my 320d or squeaks or any other problems with reliability and ive done 73k miles. I had the intercooler feed pipe, rear 18" cracked alloy wheel and the steering wheel surround replaced under warranty with minimal fuss during a service.

Also apart from one slightly arrogant salesman at BMW Bristol 3 years ago who didnt think i was a serious buyer, (i ended up buying from BMW Swindon) ive had superb service from BMW Swindon and Bristol since. They really cant do enough for me when im there.

Not doubting other peoples experience, just wanted to add another perspective that might give the op some hope..?

Whilst im on my soap box my old mans got a 53 plate e46 320d (wrong forum i know!) and he's done 180k miles and NOT had the swirls flaps problem that some make out is so common to his cars age/engine so dont believe everythings as bad as some people make out..!

[chris330D]

To the OP, in my experience the problem is not so much the car as the dealers. Unfortunately some dealers seem incapable of doing anything other than routine service. This is not limited to BMW in my experience. FWIW I am on my 3rd E91 and have had no serious problems. The current one, bought new last September, has been faultless to date. No rattles, squeaks or others. As others have said, most people go on a forum to complain or get help not post up that everyting is OK

[the_rangdo]

Fingers crossed on the 3rd visit the new clutch will have things sorted. Like Steve says, I want to (and in truth do) like the car.

It's just the ball-ache of having to book in for an 'inspection', then book it in again for supposedly getting it fixed, then book it in again to really get it fixed. All the time having to arrange leaving work early to slot it in, they don't seem to realise you might actually have a life to be getting on with.

Oh for the days when you could pop in and have a word with the mechanic who'd come out straight away and have a listen/look/whatever and tell you what's what. Too much reliance on reprogramming and hoping you'll go away happy.

[beemerbird]

OP - Firstly and foremost remember it is NOT your fault you have and still are experiencing problems with the two cars you've owned, it IS the fault of the manufacturer/those appointed to ensure your car is mechanically sound and in good and full working order. Nor is it any reflection on your choice of car either.

For me, had I had your experiences from what you've described, then yes I'd be pissed off and that would do it for me and I would walk away as they say. Constant trips to the dealers would do my head in for various reasons. Others are obviously more forgiving.

As a person who has no brand loyalty whatsoever and therefore is under no illusions shall we say, I have no qualms about 'walking' if the car is not fit for purpose or meets my requirements. Having owned different marques, it is 'interesting' the differences between them put it that way.

The others are right, forums highlight problem areas and there will be many happy owners out there but also some not so happy owners we never hear about, hence you can only base things on your own experiences tbh.

All I would say is that a car commanding a certain price tag should be manufactured and built to a standard relative to said price tag, market place and comparable with its rivals, especially when the manufacturer has the ability to produce and build reliable vehicles by using quality parts and materials, engine or otherwise. It boils down to whether that manufacturer chooses to do so or chooses to build to a price imo.

I do hope your car is sorted and you enjoy it once more.

[the_rangdo]

Cheers for the input. I've chilled a bit since I started this thread and am open to the possibility things will be sorted in 2 weeks time.

The quandary should it not be is what the hell to swap it for. I'm 8 months into a 3 year plan to get the mortgage paid off so I really don't want to spend any more money on cars than I already have (3 years time will be another matter ) and knowing current luck I'd end up leaping from one frying pan to another.

In the meantime I need a reliable motor to get me to wherever my latest contract takes me.

[beemerbird]

Glad you're chilled a bit lol.........I fully appreciate how 'worrying' car troubles can be emotionally!! And you need a reliable car for work.

I do know of a reliable diesel propelled vehicle based on actual facts ie. my sister used to run a garage and her husband was the mechanic and they serviced a 'fleet' of taxis basically. 90% of the drivers all bought the Skoda Octavia in the end for one simple reason - reliability and very good build quality for the price.........yes I know some people still think of Skodas with a certain image but hey ho. My Mum loves hers and 3 years old, never had any problems, just routine servicing (you watch kiss of death lol).

Good luck with your mortgage plans. Time to celebrate in 3 years then!