[ShadyShifty]

Hey guys, sorry to repost, but this thread didn't get much attention in the dealership forum, and I'm looking for some advice. I purchased my first BMW a little over a month ago, and I'm absolutely thrilled with the car, but disgruntled, to say the least, about the transaction.

This is a long thread, so I've done you the liberty of providing Cliff's notes.

• We found the car we were looking for, and agreed on a price. We were offered 0.9% financing, or 3 waived payments, which we refused since we were paying cash. We saw no reason to pay unnecessary interest at this point.
• We were assured that our taxes paid to Florida would reciprocate to our home state.
• We later came to find out that we could have got the maintanence plan for free if we would have financed, which we would have been more than happy to do, after all, finance charges (especially when the loan paid off after 6 months) are negligible compared to a $2,000 maintenance plan.
• After much complaining, we were sent a new bill of sale, which was $1,800 more than the original. If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the cost of the maintenance plan? How convenient. Also, the finance forms had more disparities with the bill of sale than I could count. I think the only thing they had in common was the VIN number.
• The finance manager refuses to listen to logic, and simply fabricates more lies every time we ask him about said wrongdoings and numerical disparities.
• It turns out that regarding taxes, Florida does not, in fact, reciprocate with my state. Though this is out of BMW of Gainesville's hands, according to the Florida Department of Revenue, it is their burden to make the consumer aware that they will pay taxes twice. This most certainly could have altered our decision to buy the car, because it ended up costing us over a thousand dollars more than we had planned on.
• I'm heavily considering hiring an attorney, after one last letter to the dealership's president, and a letter to the BBB.

Now for those of you with 20 minutes to blow, read on...

While vacationing in Florida over Thanksgiving, my parents and I decided to go car shopping, because my previous car was on its last leg. I did a good amount of research, and found a CPO 2007 328i that fit my price range and my style. The icing on the cake was the winter promotion, which at the time, I understood to be 0.9% financing, the first three payments waived, or an extended 6 year warranty. Unbeknownst to me at the time, all CPOs came with 6 year warranties, and the promotion was, in fact, for the 6 year extended maintenance plan.

Anyways, we get to the dealership and have a pretty good experience with the salesman. We agree on a price, and were then passed off to the finance manager. This is where things start to go downhill. I make it clear from the beginning that I'd like to choose the 6 year warranty as my incentive, for which I'm never corrected. In fact, I was assured by Matt, the finance manager, that I could get both the 0.9% financing and the 6 year warranty. Thinking that he pulled some strings, I was pretty thrilled. Though I was offered a waiver for my first three payments, or 0.9% financing, never at any point was the maintenance plan offered as an incentive. Matt played on my confusion of the maintenance plan and the warranty.

In the end, we decided not to finance, and just pay cash. After all, why pay financing charges if it's not necessary? Being from a different state, Matt assured us that paying taxes to the state of FL would reciprocate, and the taxes would be waived when we titled the car at home. We signed all the paperwork, and Matt even tried to sell us the tire protection plan and the extended maintenance plan.

On the final bill of sale, the cost was ~$1100 more than we agreed. When we asked why, Matt said that he thought I opted for the tire protection plan. Keep in mind, though the car is mine, it's in my parents name. Not only did I never agree to add the protection package, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not a legal party in the matter, and had no decision making capabilities. Matt corrected his error, and we signed the deal, leaving that evening with my new (to me) 328i.

When we got home a week later, I reviewed the paperwork some more, and realized the $2000 error that was made; the maintenance plan could have thrown in for free. I talked to my parents, and they weren't happy. I called Matt the next day, but he was extremely reluctant to talk to me about it, since it was my parents who had made the sale. Apparently my word is good enough to add an $1,100 tire protection plan at the time of sale, but now he won't give me the time of day. I thank him for his time, and assure him my father will be calling back soon.

With a condescending demeanor, Matt tells my father that he tried to get him to finance on the date of sale, but "we wouldn't listen". My dad rebuttals that we would have if we would have known the maintenance package would have been included at no charge. Matt tells us that they could offer the financing offer and the payment waiver, but were unable to offer the maintenance plan upgrade when we purchased our car (only a week prior), and that BMWNA had just approved it for their store, and when on to talk about applying codes in their corporate computer.

Because the promotion was plastered all over BMW's website, I was highly skeptical that a dealer could offer only 2/3 of the promotion. I called BMWNA, and a representative informed me that dealers have the option of offering the promotion or not, but it's all or none, there isn't a middle ground where they can offer half of the promotion.

My dad calls back the next day and speaks with the dealership's corporate office. After a week of assured call backs, my dad calls again, and finally gets the GM, who spoke with Matt, and said he is getting this fixed. Next thing we know, new papers are in the mail. This just adds insult to injury after looking them over.

The new papers are trying to sell the car for $1,800 more than the original (how convenient). We are now being charged 9% tax (instead of 5%) and are being charged a $600 document fee, instead of the $40 document fee on the original bill of sale. Mind you, this is before any finance charges are applied. That's a whole other form which is equally incorrect, right down to the purchase price. Even better yet is the slew of blank affidavits and other forms they expect my parents to sign and send back, allowing them to fill in whatever values they please.

My parents are fuming at this point. My dad called Matt again, (somehow managing to maintain his composure) asking why the purchase price prior to financing has went up by $1800. Matt explains that he made an error when doing the calculations, and that a 3% municipality tax was added on top of the 6% (which should be 5% according to their tax laws to match our state rate) sales tax Florida charges. As far as document fees, apparently they didn't collect enough at the time of sale, and they need to now collect $600, a bulk of which Matt assures us will be refunded in a couple of weeks. Unable to listen to reason, he passes us back to the salesman, who's like a deer in the headlights, he's not heard about any of this until now. Clearly Matt is just trying to get rid of us, because he doesn't want to make things right.

My dad thinks it's more trouble than it's worth to keep pursuing this cause, since Matt clearly has no clue what he's doing. My mother on the other hand, wants to get an attorney, knowing good and well that the associated costs will likely meet or exceed the maintenance plan cost, for the sheer satisfaction of making them pay what's owed.

The cherry on top comes when I titled the car today at my local DMV. Apparently Florida does not reciprocate with my state, and according to the Florida department of Revenue - "Residents of these states should be made aware that they are required to pay sales tax to Florida at the rate imposed by their home state when they purchase a vehicle in Florida and will also be required to pay tax to their home state when the vehicle is licensed in their home state."

So today I got a nice surprise today when I had to pay over a grand in taxes (for the second time) to register my car.

Heed this warning if shopping at BMW of Gainesville, you very well may get screwed if you're not careful. I know car dealers are generally out to get you, but this incident blows my mind.

I'd really appreciate some input from a third party, because clearly my opinion is biased.

Once again, sorry about the small novel, and TIA for any advice.

[slim_e90]

hey there... sorry to hear about your experience. i would suggest opening a case with BMWNA on the transaction. although it's a dealer that did the deal, i would suggest working through corporate... send the letter to the president of BMWNA and send a copy to the owners of the dealership. That should put more pressure on them to make things right over a couple of grand.

good luck.

[jaybird124]

1. Check to see if they use a 3rd party agency to help with tag work and paying taxes.
2. The CPO incentives are all over BMW's website, if you did you research, you should know how this works but, C'est la vie.
3. Get them to refund the tire plan. No biggie. Even if they somehow won't/cant, you can call the tire warranty company for a refund and get full reimbursement if its done within like 30 days. I can see how there would be a misunderstanding on this based on how you said the convo went.

Things can get cloudy once you're riled, but I don't think this is as shady as you're making it out to be. BMW of Gainesville isn't a bad dealership. I used to get my car serviced there when I went to UF.
My .02 is to have them shoot you an email discussing the line items, then after you've fully read through it, call them and review the email together in a calm collected manner. Talk with the GM again if you have to, and don't accuse anyone of anything because that's just going to get everyone riled and stop progress fast. Good luck!

[07GraphiteXI]

Originally Posted by jaybird124

1. Check to see if they use a 3rd party agency to help with tag work and paying taxes.
2. The CPO incentives are all over BMW's website, if you did you research, you should know how this works but, C'est la vie.
3. Get them to refund the tire plan. No biggie. Even if they somehow won't/cant, you can call the tire warranty company for a refund and get full reimbursement if its done within like 30 days. I can see how there would be a misunderstanding on this based on how you said the convo went.

Things can get cloudy once you're riled, but I don't think this is as shady as you're making it out to be. BMW of Gainesville isn't a bad dealership. I used to get my car serviced there when I went to UF.
My .02 is to have them shoot you an email discussing the line items, then after you've fully read through it, call them and review the email together in a calm collected manner. Talk with the GM again if you have to, and don't accuse anyone of anything because that's just going to get everyone riled and stop progress fast. Good luck!

Tire warranty is now sold through BMW. At least that's what my dealer told me when I bought my car 2 weeks ago...

[ShadyShifty]

Originally Posted by jaybird124

1. Check to see if they use a 3rd party agency to help with tag work and paying taxes.
2. The CPO incentives are all over BMW's website, if you did you research, you should know how this works but, C'est la vie.
3. Get them to refund the tire plan. No biggie. Even if they somehow won't/cant, you can call the tire warranty company for a refund and get full reimbursement if its done within like 30 days. I can see how there would be a misunderstanding on this based on how you said the convo went.

Things can get cloudy once you're riled, but I don't think this is as shady as you're making it out to be. BMW of Gainesville isn't a bad dealership. I used to get my car serviced there when I went to UF.
My .02 is to have them shoot you an email discussing the line items, then after you've fully read through it, call them and review the email together in a calm collected manner. Talk with the GM again if you have to, and don't accuse anyone of anything because that's just going to get everyone riled and stop progress fast. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I was never actually charged for the tire plan, I was just using the instance to exemplify their shady business practices, and to question why I was allowed to give the alleged go-ahead on the $1,100 tire insurance policy at the time of sale, but when I called to voice why I felt wronged, I wasn't able to talk to anyone because the contract wasn't in my name.


Regarding the CPO incentive, I feel that my research was thorough, I just mis-read the flyer. I'm upset because the dealer knew exactly what the promotion was for, and chose not to mention the, in my opinion, most attractive offer. We made it clear that we were paying cash, so I'm not really sure why he tried to entice us in with the financing offer. One would have to be dumb to pay interest unnecessarily, unless a proper incentive, such as worry-free maintenance was offered.

All the same, thanks for your outsider opinion and advice.

[Philz BMW]

sorry to hear about you story, and I DO hope you get it resolved. Although I'm sure the dealership is far from being blameless, ultimately you (and you might not want to hear this) need to shoulder some of the blame for not completely doing your due diligence on what sounds like an "other than normal" transaction. If you didn't feel educated enough to what you were agreeing to initially, maybe a 2nd opinion (your dad, or another finance manager) should have scrubbed your deal to make sure you were getting exactly what you thought you were getting. Again, not saying the dealer is without fault but....

Caveat Emptor

Good luck. Lesson learned. I've had to learn plenty in my lifetime too.

[jaybird124]

Originally Posted by ShadyShifty

Thanks for the advice. I was never actually charged for the tire plan, I was just using the instance to exemplify their shady business practices, and to question why I was allowed to give the alleged go-ahead on the $1,100 tire insurance policy at the time of sale, but when I called to voice why I felt wronged, I wasn't able to talk to anyone because the contract wasn't in my name.


Regarding the CPO incentive, I feel that my research was thorough, I just mis-read the flyer. I'm upset because the dealer knew exactly what the promotion was for, and chose not to mention the, in my opinion, most attractive offer. We made it clear that we were paying cash, so I'm not really sure why he tried to entice us in with the financing offer. One would have to be dumb to pay interest unnecessarily, unless a proper incentive, such as worry-free maintenance was offered.

All the same, thanks for your outsider opinion and advice.

While its possible something shady happened, I don't think its probable.

0.9% makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons (whole nother convo) especially with the incentives that are out there, so I'm sure they were insisting because it's a very smart deal. A lot of cash buyers knee jerk is to reject the prospect of financing out of principle without going over the numbers. $21k financed for 5 years is less than $500 interest paid TOTAL. Think of the interest you could yield with that money through simple investing. Just saying there are benefits that they're seeing as part of the reason beyond selfish gain.
Secondly, if someone starts into accusations (not saying you did) and such they're immediately going to go on the defensive. What's more, if you don't see eye to eye, then anything they say, the person will view as 'shady etc'. It's a no win.
Nevertheless, its possible something dishonest happened, but I think miscommunication combined with the desire to be proactive sometimes causes kinks.
I'm sure if you searched on here you could find threads of people complaining where the dealership refused to offer to pay the taxes or didn't include the tire warranty, etc.
I wish you the best and I'm sure you'll get it sorted out.

[ShadyShifty]

While I don't refute that I should have been more educated about the incentive prior to the sale, I feel that the dealer played off of my ignorance. I just think it's fishy that the maintenance plan was never mentioned as a possible incentive. In fact he tried to sell it to me for full price during the paperwork phase.

I'm equally disgruntled about the dual taxation. As I said before, I realize that the tax law is out of their hands, but as a consumer from another state, I can't reasonably be expected to know all states' tax laws regarding vehicles. I would expeact a finance manager in Florida would know that my state, as well as Arkansas, Mississippi, and Washington are states that collect taxes when the owner titles in their home state, independent of taxes paid elsewhere as this is a bolded point on the Florida department of revenue website. I only found this out after the fact. Instead, we were assured that our states' taxes reciprocated. For the extra $1,000 I paid, I could have opted for a different car, who knows. Once again, I'm jumping to conclusions, but I feel that they knew good and well that we didn't reciprocate. But let's face it, after the paperwork is signed, it's not their problem.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[John 070]

I read the bullet points, and I think the problem was the car was not financed, and therefore some freebie was missed as a result. I also saw a reply saying caveat emptor. The title of the thread was car is awesome, dealership s****** me.

The part that's missing, and why this won't have a happy ending, is there is no mention of the OP walking out the door and telling the dealership to shove it. When you're not willing to do that, you will be s****** every time you enter into a business transaction.

It isn't just car sales that is shady, it's insurance, banking, mortgages, windshield repair, just about any type of contracting related to a home, etc. In my travels, the only place shadiness diminishes is where the person working for you is licensed. They are no better or worse as humans, but what prevents them from taking complete advantage of their clients is the fact that they need a license to perform their livelihood and do not want to lose it.

Yes, we know that car dealerships skim here and there whenever they can. But they can not simply make a factory extended maintenance or warranty appear out of nowhere.

[ChasVS]

Classic case of impulse buying and not doing your own due diligence on the purchase. Car dealerships thrive on the emotional buyer. Everything was in black and white, you or your parents signed each document. Mommy and Daddy paid for your mistakes. Will they'll be picking up the tab for a lawyer as well? Otherwise, it will cost more for the lawyer than you'll recoup from the dealership!

[ceb]

Originally Posted by ShadyShifty

... I feel that the dealer played off of my ignorance...

That is their job.

OTOH, I am constantly amazed at how little finance people know about laws in surrounding states. In the DC Metro area, lots of people buy in Maryland because there are more dealers and the doc prep fees are capped at $99 (instead of $399 in VA.) Accordingly, you'd think that MD dealers would know about VA DMV rules, but they don't.

While hindsight is 20/20 here is an exerpt from the Florida DHSMV.

"What is the purpose for issuance of temporary license plates?

Florida law provides for a variety of legal uses of temporary license plates. The most common is by motor vehicle dealers to allow customers who don't have a license plate to transfer to be able to drive their newly purchased vehicle off the lot. The license plates are valid for 30 days, which gives dealers ample time to apply for titles and registrations for their customers.

If you are not a dealer, but you have acquired another vehicle and transferred your license plate from your old vehicle to the new vehicle, a temporary license plate may be obtained from the tax collector's office so you may demonstrate your old vehicle while it is for sale.

Non-residents also are eligible to secure a temporary license plate for "in-transit" purposes if they purchase a vehicle in Florida and want to drive it back home. However, proof of insurance (from Florida or home state) and sales tax in the amount required by the home state must be paid. If you feel you may be eligible for a temporary license plate, inquire through your local tax collector's office or the regional DMV office that serves your area."

You may need to contact the Florida DHSMV to get the tax thing straightened out. From my 2 second Google search it does not seem that you are required to pay taxes in both places. Unless, of course, you actually registered the car in Florida.

[jaybird124]

Originally Posted by John 070

It isn't just car sales that is shady, it's insurance, banking, mortgages, windshield repair, just about any type of contracting related to a home, etc. In my travels, the only place shadiness diminishes is where the person working for you is licensed. They are no better or worse as humans, but what prevents them from taking complete advantage of their clients is the fact that they need a license to perform their livelihood and do not want to lose it.

Aren't insurance, banking, and mortgage companies all governed by regulating bodies (ie licensed)? Plus dealerships are monitored by their manufacturers through franchise agreements.
Maybe I misunderstood you?

[Outlaw 06]

Are you alleging that the seller intentionally made material misrepresentations about the transaction that amounted to fraud?

Were the terms and conditions clearly stated on the purchase agreement (contract) that your parents signed? I’m no lawyer, but it seems to me that the smartest time to review a legally binding contract is BEFORE signing it.

Caveat emptor…

[Chriztofor]

Originally Posted by ShadyShifty

[LIST][*]We found the car we were looking for, and agreed on a price. [*]We were assured that our taxes paid to Florida would reciprocate to our home state.[*]We later came to find out that we could have got the maintanence plan for free if we would have financed, [*]Also, the finance forms had more disparities with the bill of sale than I could count. [*]The finance manager refuses to listen to logic, and simply fabricates more lies every time we ask him about said wrongdoings and numerical disparities.


In fact, I was assured by Matt, the finance manager, that I could get both the 0.9% financing and the 6 year warranty. Thinking that he pulled some strings, I was pretty thrilled. Though I was offered a waiver for my first three payments, or 0.9% financing, never at any point was the maintenance plan offered as an incentive. Matt played on my confusion of the maintenance plan and the warranty.



On the final bill of sale, the cost was ~$1100 more than we agreed.

When we got home a week later, I reviewed the paperwork some more, and realized the $2000 error that was made; the maintenance plan could have thrown in for free. I talked to my parents, and they weren't happy. I called Matt the next day, but he was extremely reluctant to talk to me about it, since it was my parents who had made the sale. Apparently my word is good enough to add

With a condescending demeanor, Matt tells my father that he tried to get him to finance on the date of sale, but "we wouldn't listen". My dad rebuttals that we would have if we would have known the maintenance package would have been included at no charge. Matt tells us that they could offer the financing offer and the payment waiver, but were unable to offer the maintenance plan upgrade when we purchased our car (only a week prior), and that BMWNA had just approved it for their store, and when on to talk about applying codes in their corporate computer.


my dad calls again, and finally gets the GM, who spoke with Matt, and said he is getting this fixed. Next thing we know, new papers are in the mail. This just adds insult to injury after looking them over.

Lesson learned: Get everything in writing.

[dtc100]

Do what your dad say suck it up and enjoy your car, consider it a lesson learned. If you can find an attorney who will easily take up your case without warning to you, he would be another "shady" person you will have to learn a lesson from again.

[DL]

I purchased in FL and drove my 328i back to NYS. These states have a reciprocal tax agreement so it was not a problem for me. However, you may be able to get some or all of your extra tax money back. This is from NYS. See how it works in your state.

Copy below NYS dept motor vehicles:

Note: Before completing this form, refer to the charts below to determine
if New York State provides a reciprocal credit for sales tax paid to the state
where you made your purchase. For motor vehicles, New York State
provides a reciprocal credit for tax paid to a very limited number of
states. If no reciprocal credit is available, use Form DTF-802, Statement of
Transaction - Sale or Gift of Motor Vehicle, Trailer, All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV),
Vessel (Boat), or Snowmobile, instead of this form. If you paid tax to a state
for which no New York State reciprocal credit is allowed you should apply
to that state for a refund. If the state denies the refund you may be eligible
for a credit for some or all of the New York tax you must pay now. To apply,
file Form AU-11, Application for Credit or Refund of Sales or Use Tax, and
attach proof of tax payment to and proof of the refund denial by the other
state.

[1997gtx]

Your problem with the tax is that West Virginia does not reciprocate taxes with ANY State. And Florida law requires dealerships to collect sales tax up front. The Florida dealership (and you) should have known that West Virginia does not accept taxes paid in another state as payment for taxes in West Virginia. You won't receive a credit from West Virginia.

Unfortunately, your only course of action here is to try and go after the Florida dealership (through the BBB perhaps?) for shady business practices.

It's easy information to find. According to the Florida Dept. of Revenue:

"Currently, the states of Arkansas, Mississippi, and West Virginia impose a sales tax on motor vehicles, but they DO NOT allow a credit for taxes paid to Florida. Residents of these states should be made aware that they are required to pay sales tax to Florida at the rate imposed by their home state when they purchase a vehicle in Florida and will also be required to pay tax to their home state when the vehicle is licensed in their home state."

You might have a pretty good case considering you bought this care from a BMW dealership who should be WELL aware of laws in other states. You could probably get a court to petition a copy of their sales to out-of-state buyers in hopes to find another from Arkansas, Miss and West Virginia. You would then have to track down the owners of the cars and ask if they were informed (incorrectly) that the tax would transfer. If you can prove dishonest practices or negligence from the dealership, I imagine you could come out on top. It's not the easiest path to take, but it's certainly an option.

Personally, I would talk with a local lawyer who better understands your state laws. Have them send a 1st class letter to corporate BMW headquarters letting them know of the problem and that you plan to contact the State's Attorney.

[timmahh]

Just as an FYI to the OP; the three BMW CPO Incentives cannot be combined in any way shape or form; I went through this with a dealer a few weeks ago, you get .9 APR, or included maintenance, or 3 months no payments.. but not a combo. Also the CPO warranty covers powertrain, but it is not as robust as an additional extended BMW warranty.

When talking with a local dealer about a vehicle re: .9 APR they said "oh but we have 2.9% on CPO as well!" So I thought oh good, 2.9% APR and the maintenance program... Nope! The 2.9% is still considered a special offer, even though it's not one of the 3 offers where you have to choose one. Fine. I'll finance outside the dealer...... Oh, well you only get the maintenance offer if you finance through BMWFS, at a std. rate of 6-7%. The car was overpriced so I starting to back off, thankfully they sold it that night to some [unsuspecting] person.


Read everything, then read it again, then print it out on paper and read it again. (it's amazing what you find when it's in your hand vs. on your screen!)