Possible Failure of 3rd HPFP

Indy335iCp · 08-31-2010, 07:49 AM

Good AM everyone,

Haven't posted in a while. I drive a 2009 E92 335i. It has about 15k miles and currently sitting in it's engine bay is its THIRD HPFP, which I believe is on its last legs. Yesterday, I had the car in the shop for SES light and long cranks. Service advisor said long cranks were due to a software update which was a recall (How come I was never notified about this recall BMW?) and also commented that they had to replace a diagnostic pump which monitors fuel pressure, and that is what caused the warning light to come on. Well, this all sounded awful fishy to me since the car was behaving in the exact same way as the previous two HPFPs when they failed. It sounded a lot like just putting lipstick on a pig and sending me on my way. So called up the service manager at our dealership who heads up both the SAs and the techs and seems to be a pretty experienced guy.

He said to keep this off the record and that he wasn't supposed to coach on this, but he pulled the file on my car and said my car was throwing the same codes as the previous two times the HPFP was replaced, but that the tech decided not to replace it yesterday because they were not cleared by BMW to do so. He seemed to imply that the dealer can only swap out the HPFP once before BMW has to approve subsequent installations. He advised me that the next time the car had even one long crank to bring it back to the dealership, and then we would move forward with it being "lemon lawed" (which I was aware in Indiana is a 3 strikes and you're out sort of thing), and getting a replacement.

Has anyone had this sort of scenario where it basically sounds like BMW tried to cover up a larger mechanical problem by fiddling with some of the things that would monitor it?

How should I proceed, should I wait for a true long crank, or should I just bring the thing in and park it as soon as it coughs even a little since it sounds like the car is already throwing the codes?

The whole thing seems a little fishy to me on BMW's end, and I'd be interested if anyone else has had a similar experience beyond just the typical HPFP failures.

Indy335iCp · 08-31-2010, 08:26 AM

Anyone had a similar experience? Where BMW tried to replace other parts before finally admitting it was the HPFP again?

alex2364 · 08-31-2010, 10:51 AM

I've had similar experience where they did the software update and they're not going to replace the HPFP unless BMW approved it. I'm guessing it means you have to get limp mode or be stuck on the side of the highway for it to happen.

Indy335iCp · 08-31-2010, 12:29 PM

That seems a little ridiculous.

The way the service manager represented it to me, is that if my car had never had a HPFP failure before yesterday they would have replaced it, but because mine had failed twice, they chose not to, and want to wait for it to fail fully.

reprod · 08-31-2010, 12:51 PM

Question... do you fill up at the same gas station consistently? My HPFP failed while I was using the same gas station. I got a new HPFP and kept on using the same gas station and my car gave me the SES light and was about to stall on the highway. I switched gas stations on the same HPFP and ever since then I have not had one HPFP or SES issue whatsoever. In fact I am very happy with my car at this point.

boostm3 · 08-31-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprod

Question... do you fill up at the same gas station consistently? My HPFP failed while I was using the same gas station. I got a new HPFP and kept on using the same gas station and my car gave me the SES light and was about to stall on the highway. I switched gas stations on the same HPFP and ever since then I have not had one HPFP or SES issue whatsoever. In fact I am very happy with my car at this point.

Why dont you tell us which gas station you used prior to the failure, and which you switched to when things seemed to improve? I mean, if you have confidence in this, dont you think every forum reader here would be interested?

brocken · 08-31-2010, 01:17 PM

I've been running into the same issues with my dealer. Had the pump replaced once. Next time they did software. Then switched plugs/coil pack. Then replaced injector. Then another software update.
These are 5 separate visits (and don't include the first visit for limp mode and they sent me away) all for the same complaint. The first time they replace the pump right away... after that it's a different excuse for the same problem every time.

Indy335iCp · 08-31-2010, 01:32 PM

The second pump I got put in was a battle, I wouldn't allow it to leave the shop til they agreed to do it, and I'm just tired of fighting it. It stayed there for almost a week and a BMW regional tech had to approve it.

As far as gas goes, I use shell mostly, but I'll also go to BP and other places. I think that's probably irrelevant though.

reprod · 08-31-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostm3

Why dont you tell us which gas station you used prior to the failure, and which you switched to when things seemed to improve? I mean, if you have confidence in this, dont you think every forum reader here would be interested?

I was actually using Shell prior and I still use Shell but predominantly Sunoco but the issue was that specific gas station and it's owner. The owner determines what blend goes into the tank and what prices are affixed to its gas. They did do one test and found 18% ethanol in the tank. From that point on I never went back and have had no issues since.

Jer025 · 08-31-2010, 04:14 PM

This sounds very familiar as my GF is currently on her third pump. We got the "software update" story a few times before taking it to another dealership where they finally replaced the last pump. I have been going back and forth with BMW NA for almost a month now trying to get reimbursed for a monthly payment.

RoundelM3 · 08-31-2010, 04:53 PM

Had mine replaced 3 times,no questions asked. Last time was maybe a year ago or so. Since then, no problems.

boostm3 · 08-31-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reprod

I was actually using Shell prior and I still use Shell but predominantly Sunoco but the issue was that specific gas station and it's owner. The owner determines what blend goes into the tank and what prices are affixed to its gas. They did do one test and found 18% ethanol in the tank. From that point on I never went back and have had no issues since.

That corroborates what my dealer srvc dept told me.. Before I ordered my 135i, asked them whats with the HPFP issues, and he said they were attributing it to elevated ethanol in some non name-brand gas stations.

Its very hard to know this content if no percentage is listed.. and even if it is, theres no guarantee that that content is really whats in there. With such a variable and seemingly loosely regulated ethanol condition, maybe they should be making the pumps seals robust enough to deal with real american condtions!

Lastly, who did the test on your gas and came up with the large ethanol content; was it the Dealer? I know mine has tested the gas on some cars they had to replace pumps on, so it's certainly suspected as a potential or real cause among some dealers. I just wish I knew how to avoid ethanol scamming stations before pumping their gas is all!

LagMode335i · 08-31-2010, 06:19 PM

I still go to my old gas station in my Lexus; I take my BMW to a non-ethanol gas station (also top tier) after my dealer had to replace my pump (to which I was using Shell). Said the ethanol content was out of spec by 1%. My lexus has more miles on it now than my bmw. My lexus has been in the shop "0" times for repair or any fuel issues. The bmw has long cranks so I scheduled the car for an appt. I can only say as of date, no issues on the lexus. Now I've been driving out of my way for the stupid gas conspiracy theory....anybody got anything that is a real answer? There are no mods on my car....completely stock.

lastMleft · 08-31-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagMode335i

I still go to my old gas station in my Lexus; I take my BMW to a non-ethanol gas station (also top tier) after my dealer had to replace my pump (to which I was using Shell). Said the ethanol content was out of spec by 1%. My lexus has more miles on it now than my bmw. My lexus has been in the shop "0" times for repair or any fuel issues. The bmw has long cranks so I scheduled the car for an appt. I can only say as of date, no issues on the lexus. Now I've been driving out of my way for the stupid gas conspiracy theory....anybody got anything that is a real answer? There are no mods on my car....completely stock.

I don't have an answer to your question, but i have a 07 335I, I fuel up at a shell station and I never have long cranks or any other HPFP issuses.

MTHRAR · 08-31-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagMode335i

I still go to my old gas station in my Lexus; I take my BMW to a non-ethanol gas station (also top tier) after my dealer had to replace my pump (to which I was using Shell). Said the ethanol content was out of spec by 1%. My lexus has more miles on it now than my bmw. My lexus has been in the shop "0" times for repair or any fuel issues. The bmw has long cranks so I scheduled the car for an appt. I can only say as of date, no issues on the lexus. Now I've been driving out of my way for the stupid gas conspiracy theory....anybody got anything that is a real answer? There are no mods on my car....completely stock.

Agreed, I just bought my 335i and it's had its HPFP replaced once under warranty before I bought it. There is a shell gas station about 25 minutes away that has no ethanol premium 93. I will try and fill up there every chance I get. I have other "closer" options, but will try and get to that station every time if I can. There is a shell that's 5 minutes away with 10% ethanol and then another one with premium 91 no ethanol that is clear across town. I also try not to go under 1/4 tank of gas, geez you could write a book on these theories of preserving the HPFP...

boostm3 · 08-31-2010, 07:31 PM

How are you guys finding the ethanol content? Are you finding that most stations display it on the pumps? If pumps in a station do not show the Ethanol sticker, can we assume there is no ethanol?

Ive read where every station in Ct has switched to a partial ethanol content.. Anybody know if there are any Ct stations not using the stuff?

Misterted · 08-31-2010, 09:00 PM

I just traded in a 135i that had one hpfp replaced, one of the turbos and a few other things as well. I spoke to BMW about a buyback but in the end they gave me one month payment back. After 3 of them I would try that if I were you. From what I understand the dealer is instrumental in getting this done. They need to back you up.

LagMode335i · 08-31-2010, 09:03 PM

Non-ethanol laced is out there; I just wanted to find one that was Top Tier too. It took a while but I finally got a hit on the internet. What amazes me is my dealer knew nothing about it. I was trying to make an honest attempt to do the right thing, but the right thing is bogus. BMWs ethanol check is a bunch of BS anyway. Those guys talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Last time they check my car for ethanol I laughed, then they put some cheap-a$$ regular unleaded in my ride. It was irritating. I still make the trip across town for the gas; it's not so bad because I mainly use that car for the weekends. KEEP SEARCHING, Anyway, the gas station I go to proudly has "no ethanol" on their pumps and they do get some business....

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostm3

How are you guys finding the ethanol content? Are you finding that most stations display it on the pumps? If pumps in a station do not show the Ethanol sticker, can we assume there is no ethanol?

Ive read where every station in Ct has switched to a partial ethanol content.. Anybody know if there are any Ct stations not using the stuff?

08-31-2010, 07:49 AM	#1
Indy335iCp Private First Class 3 Rep 113 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe BSM/CR Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	Possible Failure of 3rd HPFP Good AM everyone, Haven't posted in a while. I drive a 2009 E92 335i. It has about 15k miles and currently sitting in it's engine bay is its THIRD HPFP, which I believe is on its last legs. Yesterday, I had the car in the shop for SES light and long cranks. Service advisor said long cranks were due to a software update which was a recall (How come I was never notified about this recall BMW?) and also commented that they had to replace a diagnostic pump which monitors fuel pressure, and that is what caused the warning light to come on. Well, this all sounded awful fishy to me since the car was behaving in the exact same way as the previous two HPFPs when they failed. It sounded a lot like just putting lipstick on a pig and sending me on my way. So called up the service manager at our dealership who heads up both the SAs and the techs and seems to be a pretty experienced guy. He said to keep this off the record and that he wasn't supposed to coach on this, but he pulled the file on my car and said my car was throwing the same codes as the previous two times the HPFP was replaced, but that the tech decided not to replace it yesterday because they were not cleared by BMW to do so. He seemed to imply that the dealer can only swap out the HPFP once before BMW has to approve subsequent installations. He advised me that the next time the car had even one long crank to bring it back to the dealership, and then we would move forward with it being "lemon lawed" (which I was aware in Indiana is a 3 strikes and you're out sort of thing), and getting a replacement. Has anyone had this sort of scenario where it basically sounds like BMW tried to cover up a larger mechanical problem by fiddling with some of the things that would monitor it? How should I proceed, should I wait for a true long crank, or should I just bring the thing in and park it as soon as it coughs even a little since it sounds like the car is already throwing the codes? The whole thing seems a little fishy to me on BMW's end, and I'd be interested if anyone else has had a similar experience beyond just the typical HPFP failures.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

08-31-2010, 08:26 AM	#2
Indy335iCp Private First Class 3 Rep 113 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe BSM/CR Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	Anyone had a similar experience? Where BMW tried to replace other parts before finally admitting it was the HPFP again?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 10:51 AM	#3
alex2364 Colonel 2883 Rep 2,762 Posts Drives: 2020 M4 ZCP / 2023 X3 M40i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2020 BMW M4 [10.00] 2023 BMW X3 M40i [10.00]	I've had similar experience where they did the software update and they're not going to replace the HPFP unless BMW approved it. I'm guessing it means you have to get limp mode or be stuck on the side of the highway for it to happen.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 12:29 PM	#4
Indy335iCp Private First Class 3 Rep 113 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe BSM/CR Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	That seems a little ridiculous. The way the service manager represented it to me, is that if my car had never had a HPFP failure before yesterday they would have replaced it, but because mine had failed twice, they chose not to, and want to wait for it to fail fully.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 12:51 PM	#5
reprod Lieutenant Colonel 148 Rep 1,728 Posts Drives: '16 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (6)	Question... do you fill up at the same gas station consistently? My HPFP failed while I was using the same gas station. I got a new HPFP and kept on using the same gas station and my car gave me the SES light and was about to stall on the highway. I switched gas stations on the same HPFP and ever since then I have not had one HPFP or SES issue whatsoever. In fact I am very happy with my car at this point. __________________ '11 Space Grey E92 335xi M-Sport (KWv1 Coils \| Saddle Brown \| Bamboo) (Returned) '14 Mineral Grey F32 335i M-Sport (Dinan DHP \| LED Lights \| Coral Red \| Hexagonal Aluminum) (Returned) '16 Mineral Grey F80 M3 ZCP
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 01:17 PM	#7
brocken Captain 34 Rep 616 Posts Drives: X3MC Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (5)	I've been running into the same issues with my dealer. Had the pump replaced once. Next time they did software. Then switched plugs/coil pack. Then replaced injector. Then another software update. These are 5 separate visits (and don't include the first visit for limp mode and they sent me away) all for the same complaint. The first time they replace the pump right away... after that it's a different excuse for the same problem every time.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 01:32 PM	#8
Indy335iCp Private First Class 3 Rep 113 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe BSM/CR Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	The second pump I got put in was a battle, I wouldn't allow it to leave the shop til they agreed to do it, and I'm just tired of fighting it. It stayed there for almost a week and a BMW regional tech had to approve it. As far as gas goes, I use shell mostly, but I'll also go to BP and other places. I think that's probably irrelevant though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 04:14 PM	#10
Jer025 Private First Class 45 Rep 114 Posts Drives: 2020 M340i Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	This sounds very familiar as my GF is currently on her third pump. We got the "software update" story a few times before taking it to another dealership where they finally replaced the last pump. I have been going back and forth with BMW NA for almost a month now trying to get reimbursed for a monthly payment.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 04:53 PM	#11
RoundelM3 Major General 1837 Rep 6,990 Posts Drives: 15 F80 M3, 22 G01 X3 30i Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Clayton, NC iTrader: (2) Garage List 2022 BMW X3 [9.83] 2015 BMW M3 [6.50]	Had mine replaced 3 times,no questions asked. Last time was maybe a year ago or so. Since then, no problems. __________________ 2015 F80 ///M3 Sedan 7DCT Tanzanite, 2022 X3 sDrive30i 8AT Brooklyn Grey
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 06:19 PM	#13
LagMode335i Private First Class 1 Rep 181 Posts Drives: 2008 335i DS2 but M OTW Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: TN iTrader: (0)	I still go to my old gas station in my Lexus; I take my BMW to a non-ethanol gas station (also top tier) after my dealer had to replace my pump (to which I was using Shell). Said the ethanol content was out of spec by 1%. My lexus has more miles on it now than my bmw. My lexus has been in the shop "0" times for repair or any fuel issues. The bmw has long cranks so I scheduled the car for an appt. I can only say as of date, no issues on the lexus. Now I've been driving out of my way for the stupid gas conspiracy theory....anybody got anything that is a real answer? There are no mods on my car....completely stock.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 07:31 PM	#16
boostm3 Lieutenant Colonel 683 Rep 1,608 Posts Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Parkland, Fl iTrader: (0)	How are you guys finding the ethanol content? Are you finding that most stations display it on the pumps? If pumps in a station do not show the Ethanol sticker, can we assume there is no ethanol? Ive read where every station in Ct has switched to a partial ethanol content.. Anybody know if there are any Ct stations not using the stuff? __________________ Boostm3 '18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17 Last edited by boostm3; 08-31-2010 at 08:32 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2010, 09:00 PM	#17
Misterted Maniac with a BMW 13 Rep 185 Posts Drives: 2020 330 X-Drive Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Jersey Shore iTrader: (0)	I just traded in a 135i that had one hpfp replaced, one of the turbos and a few other things as well. I spoke to BMW about a buyback but in the end they gave me one month payment back. After 3 of them I would try that if I were you. From what I understand the dealer is instrumental in getting this done. They need to back you up. __________________ 2021 330i X-Drive MSport 2019 X3 3.0 Phytonic Blue Metallic/Black 2020 228xi GC Black
	Appreciate 0 Quote