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      08-24-2010, 08:02 PM   #1
kennyfrc
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Carbotech Pads

Anyone try these on the Z4MC?

If so, what compound for track use?
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      08-24-2010, 08:05 PM   #2
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I used them on my last car with great success.
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      08-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #3
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^^^Mazda RX8
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      08-28-2010, 03:51 PM   #4
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XP10 front and rear. Be ready for a lot of noise. They do work very well.
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      08-28-2010, 04:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc View Post
Anyone try these on the Z4MC?

If so, what compound for track use?
I recently put the StopTech Street Performance pads on mine and they're wonderful. Others are using Cool Carbon with good success. These 2 pads work very well with the stock rotors and result in similar to OE Rotor wear.
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      08-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddyshk View Post
I recently put the StopTech Street Performance pads on mine and they're wonderful. Others are using Cool Carbon with good success. These 2 pads work very well with the stock rotors and result in similar to OE Rotor wear.
The key word there is "Street". They are no where near as aggressive, fade resistant, as high a coefficient of friction as the Carbotech Xp10 track pads.

Nothing wrong with either pad they are just made for different purposes.
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      08-30-2010, 01:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
The key word there is "Street". They are no where near as aggressive, fade resistant, as high a coefficient of friction as the Carbotech Xp10 track pads.

Nothing wrong with either pad they are just made for different purposes.
Agreed - I think it's 1,200 vs 1,600 degree fade resistance. If track only is the OP's desired use, I know plenty of people using the Carbotechs - they swap them in and out at the track.
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      09-15-2010, 01:04 PM   #8
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I run XP10s and XP8s on the track for my RX8 and I think the same combo should work great on the M3.

They're both balanced very similar at 50/50 and the XP10 fronts won't chunk like the XP8 compounds when your really get deep into the braking zone.
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      10-13-2010, 09:34 AM   #9
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I overheated XP10s on this car. If I were to go for another set, I would go with the XP12. They will result in more rotor wear, but they'll be less likely melt like XP10s and score your rotor/smoke, etc. The real issue is rotor cooling (lack of) as always with BMW. 3.5 hot laps in a time trial (no warm up or cool down), back in the paddock front rotor surface temp is slightly over 500C (they started at nearly ambient temperature). Push hard in a 20 minute session, come back and the pads are smoking and everybody thinks my car is on fire; temps near 600C. And that's on the stock Contis (the fronts were almost destroyed toward the end of the day so I packed up). I think I was the only person on street tires in my class, but I don't know what would have happened with sticky tires. The only good news was I had flushed with Motul600 the day before, so I didn't have any fluid issues. I weighed the car at the Nascar scale with 5/8 tank with small stuff out the trunk; it came in at 3260. I was expecting more like 3100. Just to add my rant: the stock suspension is very nervous on a tight track and floats around too much (that caught me off guard and I spun it once pushing too hard). Not particularly confidence inspiring--especially over the crest of the hill at NHMS where you need a small steering input. Regardless, at 1:21.3 my bone stock Z4M was still 0.5 second faster than my E30 M3 on Hoosiers. The tires lost so much grip from morning to afternoon that I backed down a bit during the time trial. It would be a very fast ride with good coilovers, square or close to square tire setup, and brake cooling IMO. Still heavier than I'd like though, so manage your brakes...
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      10-14-2010, 02:00 PM   #10
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I'm was running an XP10 Front / XP8 Rear at Carbotech's recommendation. I had zero problems on the Shanendoah (sp?) circuit at Summit Point nor did the instructors who drove my car. These were 30 minute sessions. For the street, I use the Bobcats.
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      10-14-2010, 05:35 PM   #11
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Then you/they weren't really pushing the car. The point is if you want to push the car (and the brakes), XP10 doesn't really cut it--actually the stock system doesn't really cut it. I had a similar experience at Lime Rock with XP10s. Also, I'd ignore Carbotech's recommendation as it most likely results in the bias being shifted even more forward as I assume XP10 has higher CoF than XP8 overall (that has been discussed in another thread here). They gave me the same advice years ago, and the rear pads lasted forever because they weren't doing any work. If anything, I'd experiment with shifting the bias to the rear from the factory setup for slightly better performance. Factory setups are very conservative because they don't want any lawsuits, etc. There must be more rear grip than the car is utilizing. Aftermarket brake system designers know this and take advantage of it.
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      10-14-2010, 10:46 PM   #12
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You're correct. I wasn't driving the car to the limits of it's abilities. I was driving to the limits where I was comfortable given my driving abilities. This was an HPDE event and my main goal was to able to drive it home in one piece so I left a comfortable safety margin. For my driving style/agressiveness, they worked fine. You obviously have more experience and are able to push harder than I am.

Being new to this car and BMW's in general, I deferred by brake pad selection to an "expert". If I had the money for tires and brake pads, I could perform some tests, but alas, I don't.
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      10-15-2010, 05:59 AM   #13
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Well, IMO with recent M cars, we need to be aware that the brake systems are not fade proof. Meaning, the net energy balance into the system becomes and remains positive if one starts doing too many hot laps in a row. The tricky thing is that we all get faster as we learn more, and one day, might end up crossing that line where things start overheating where/when they didn't use to. FWIW, I found myself in that position a couple of years ago and experienced brake failure at a place I didn't used to--despite using the same equipment--and it was not fun. I just wanted to bring up the observation that the brakes on this car are not fade proof, and one is more likely to experience it with less aggressive pads, but if one doesn't manage the brakes and keeps on going, no pad will prevent failure in the absence of proper brake cooling.
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      10-22-2010, 08:21 PM   #14
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The XP12s are not much more fade resistant the than the Xp10s. If you fade Xp10s will most likely fade xp12 also. The other issue is the xp12 are more aggressive. They are harder to modulate and tend to activate ABS much more often.

If you are smoking Xp10s then the car needs braking cooling ducts, not xp12. The max temp rating for the x10 vs xp12 is 1700F vs 1950F.

As long as the fade is progressive and you know it's there then it's not hard to adjust your driving to suit. For an HPDE Xp10s should be adequate.
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      10-23-2010, 09:37 AM   #15
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There was no fade, but there could have been if hadn't called it a day early. The pads were smoking and the temps were high as I mentioned. Pads can give up suddenly--self destruct really--when they overheat like that (ask me how I know). XP12 would have a higher a safety margin. Yes, I said the real issue is not pad selection but the lack of cooling with the stock system, but I don't intend to install backing plates and ducts on this car. I didn't have any issues with modulation when using XP12s on a E92 M3.
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      11-27-2010, 09:19 AM   #16
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I ran XP-10's all around for one season and while they definitely work and stop the car really well, I found them hard to modulate. I switched to Hawk HT-10s and have stayed with them for the last 2 seasons - great modulation and release characteristics and the stopping power is excellent too.

I plan to stay with Hawks - DTC60 is the next upgrade from the HT-10s if you wanted more.
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