[Brett]

Just wondering what you guys think? I want to get a dark interior again, but don't want to get burned.

Without experiencing it myself I am not sure how to tell... so anyone care to share "gut" feelings or details on this "wonder" material.

-Brett

[txusa03]

dont tell me this is another one of your mean joke again . Never heard of such thing. care to explain what it is and who carries this products?

[teknochild]

yea is this something bmw claims about the leather or something i have no idea what your talking about

[Brett]

Originally Posted by txusa03

dont tell me this is another one of your mean joke again . Never heard of such thing. care to explain what it is and who carries this products?

Sorry about that, I didn't realize so many people would motion for me to be banned . They closed that thread btw, but seeing as I am going to be flooding this forum with glossy pictures and maybe videos everyone will see it was all in good fun.

To answer your question, I am trying to figure out myself if it is a joke. It is standard on the 335i cabrio. I just wonder if it works good enough to get black seats.

Originally Posted by PressRelease

Sun Reflective leather for cooler seating
Particularly appealing on the new 3 Series Convertible is the special leather that was developed for the seating upholstery. Modified color pigments serve to reflect the infra-red radiation by the sun, very effectively preventing excessive temperatures on the seat surfaces otherwise encountered in weather that would be perfect for open-air motoring.

To achieve this, BMW is the first carmaker in the world to use Sun Reflective technology in its leather. Applying this process, pigments are embedded in the material during production to reflect infra-red radiation in sunlight in wavelengths of more than 720 Nanometres, significantly reducing the usual heating effect on the surfaces. All other qualities of the leather material remain unchanged.

Sun Reflective technology is used both on the seat upholstery and on the armrests to prevent body contact with excessively hot surfaces. This new leather treatment is able to reduce surface temperatures on dark interior colours by up to 68 °F, and also offers advantages on light-colored upholstery, where the heating effect of sunshine is less severe.

[user1]

I dont know much about it yet. My first impressions are if its reflective then its not going to benefit anything other than the cabrio. The leather in a closed vehicle not absorbing the heat only means the heat is let into the cabin. I would imagine it would increase the temp of the cabin in a closed vehicle. I'm waiting to find out more about this but that is my concern with this "technology" in anything but the cabrio. I hope I am wrong, in which case I will buy this leather on my next car.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by Brett

Sorry about that, I didn't realize so many people would motion for me to be banned . They closed that thread btw, but seeing as I am going to be flooding this forum with glossy pictures and maybe videos everyone will see it was all in good fun.

To answer your question, I am trying to figure out myself if it is a joke. It is standard on the 335i cabrio. I just wonder if it works good enough to get black seats.

A little good clean fun does not hurt. Back to topic, that is too new to tell. maybe you can be one of the first to test. Now, let just say in a closed car, if you have black exterior and you park in the sun, man does leather gets hot. Now, with this new leather treatment, are they saying the leather surface does not get as hot? One way to test is when the e93 comes out, I would ask the dealer to part it in daylight with the top down for 30 minutes and then see how hot it get. They did not say how much this option cost. Any idea on $?

[stressdoc]

I think it is standard with leather on the E93, not sure about 'ette. Embedded pigments -- not sure what the longevity will be. I would opt for llight colors regardless.

[poiney]

As the last poster suggested, it's probably faster to do the experiment than postulate.

If it is for real and works as it claims, I don't believe it will be particularly effective since most of the sun's energy is in the green ~ 500-600nm.

Anyway, we already have a technological solution, it's called reflecting the visible-wavelength band, i.e., dye it light color.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by txusa03

They did not say how much this option cost. Any idea on $?

Its not "really" an option. Its the only leather available for the cabrio, and similar to the 330 cabrio, the 335i cabrio includes leather standard.

I agree its easy to test but I would likely have my car ordered before this would be an option. My only "hope" is that this is one of the focuses of the car at Detroit and perhaps they have some test / example set up there. Sure, it will be rigged but atleast I will get some idea, maybe...

User1 brings up a good point though. If it reflects heat, then the heat still has to go somewhere. In a closed cabin that could be, well

-Brett

[txusa03]

in that case, I would also wonder how durable this leather is in term of wear and uses. Yup, I think User1 have a good point as well.

[SANK_CH]

Hi everyone.

BMW introduced this tech in Spring '06 on the steering wheel of the Z4 roadsters.

I m running a company that trades leather worldwide. And the technology that you talked above reminds me of one I saw in march '06. One of our supplier use such Add on his products. It's called TFL Cool System and it's developped by a German Company. I presume BMW has made the deal with them. You should find more info on their website: www.tfl.com

I've seen a demo with one sample having the TFL and one without the TFL. A heat Lamp was just 30 cm over the 2 samples, and the result is just speechless.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by SANK_CH

I've seen a demo with one sample having the TFL and one without the TFL. A heat Lamp was just 30 cm over the 2 samples, and the result is just speechless.

I am hoping they have a similar demo at Detroit to showcase the technology.

Thanks for the comments though! Now, I am only concerned about User1's comment

-Brett

[Mark335i]

Originally Posted by Brett

Just wondering what you guys think? I want to get a dark interior again, but don't want to get burned.

Without experiencing it myself I am not sure how to tell... so anyone care to share "gut" feelings or details on this "wonder" material.

-Brett

Yes it is real technology and it works. It is based on "mixed metal oxide" pigment technology that selectively reflects near-infrared radiation much more than conventional coloration, while still looking the same color in visible light. The result is that even dark colors stay cooler than would normally be the case. These pigments are also extremely durable and lightfast in color.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by user1

The leather in a closed vehicle not absorbing the heat only means the heat is let into the cabin. I would imagine it would increase the temp of the cabin in a closed vehicle.

Wait! I just thought about this for another second, don't light colors "reflect" these rays as well? The cabin for light interiors typically not warming, is it?

-Brett

[SANK_CH]

Originally Posted by Brett

I am hoping they have a similar demo at Detroit to showcase the technology.

-Brett

The demo I saw, wasn't at a car show, but at the Lineapelle in Bologna (Italy). It's the biggest leather fair in the world for professional.

[user1]

I didnt mean to worry people with my comments. Let me stress that I have no knowledge of this technology. I was just expressing my thoughts while thinking about how BMW worded their explaination of the technology. With terms like reflection of heat it just got my mind thinking about how heat could build up in a closed car. I'm sure BMW will have more information as the e93 is unveiled at the motor shows.

Originally Posted by Brett

Wait! I just thought about this for another second, don't light colors "reflect" these rays as well? The cabin for light interiors typically not warming, is it?

Light colors absorb less heat but let off heat slower. Dark colors absorb more heat but release heat faster. The most important item for interior heat of a closed car is the car color. Most sunlight hits the body of the car heating the metal around the cabin. The light entering the cabin occurs mostly though the front and rear windows. They are the largest windows and at an increased angle towards the sky. Most autos have dark dash and rear shelves to reduce glare. The dark dash is drawing more heat into a closed car regardless of the interior color.

The best way to reduce heat in a closed car is to buy a lighter colored car and install ceramic window tints. Ceramic tints can reflect up to 99% of IR heat and UV. That would only leave the front window as a major source of sunlight/heat.

Discovery channel has a program called Mythbusters. They tackled the light vs dark interior debate and found that light colored interiors aren’t considerably cooler than dark ones for many of the reasons I stated above.

If this new leather remains cool no matter the interior temp of a closed car, then it wont matter if the cabin gets hotter due to reflected heat. Opening windows to let the reflected heat out would cool a car fast. As long as the seats were cool you can reduce air temp easily with ventilation and AC.

[fun2drive]

Remember E-glass. This must be similar as 790 nanometers is getting very close to infrared. E-glass in your home windows do the same but not sure if they block the lower wavelengths or the long wavelengths in the 8-12 micron range. Regardless E-glass works very well and if this is applied to the leather I am sure it works.
I do wonder how durable it will be as well.
I think the Mythbusters show was measuring inside the car and had one white and black car. Most of the energy was radiated thus the energy was going from radiated energy to conducted energy. I was surprised too that the difference was not so great.
I know from the seat of the pants (I should say shorts since I wear shorts in Florida 9 months a year) that dark interiors burn heck out of you while light ones are not bad at all.
I guess that is why I ordered Creme Beige even though I like the darker colors better...

[poiney]

I did a search on Mythbusters, but couldn't find info on that episode. When MB said the temperature wasn't substantially different, was that with respect to seat temp or air temp inside car. How many degrees different? On a hot sunny day, I think I can tell a difference, and easily on my butt.

I don't know what light inteior they compared, but beige for example might be half as reflective as white. Dunno, but medium colors can be surprisingly absorbing compared to white.

Blocking out IR is a good marketing strategy, but unfortunately, doesn't cool your seats much. I would tint my windows to reject heat if I didn't have to darken them (i.e., block the visible range).

[Pyrat 2]

My take is the following:

• Tint the windows - your preference on VLT
• Put up the window shades
• Pop the sunroof
• Don't worry about it

[poiney]

BTW, if BMW is listening they will bolster sales of their built-in window shades if they make them reflective rather than black (maybe even hotter as compared to light interior). That way they will keep the car cooler, instead of merely keep sun off passenger's face. I would have bought them otherwise. Wasted technology.

[the_oracle1980]

I have seen a sample of how this stuff works like others on here. BMW wouldnt market something that doesnt work. I doubt its BS. After all, the nerds at BMW spent 25 million dollars making sure that all new BMW's had a odourless interior smell on all their models, by looking into the solvents/chemicals and materials used in all of its interiors.

[user1]

Originally Posted by poiney

I did a search on Mythbusters, but couldn't find info on that episode. When MB said the temperature wasn't substantially different, was that with respect to seat temp or air temp inside car. How many degrees different? On a hot sunny day, I think I can tell a difference, and easily on my butt.

I don't know what light inteior they compared, but beige for example might be half as reflective as white. Dunno, but medium colors can be surprisingly absorbing compared to white.

Blocking out IR is a good marketing strategy, but unfortunately, doesn't cool your seats much. I would tint my windows to reject heat if I didn't have to darken them (i.e., block the visible range).

I would need to find that episode and watch it again to give you specifics such as exact temps. The end results were the outside color of the car mattered much more than interior color. After a certain amount of time all interiors reached extremely high temps & dark interiors didnt increase faster than light ones. Your butt feeling the difference is much like the butt dyno we read about on this forum. People can feel the car is faster... just like you can feel the car is warmer. But scientific (or close ones done by MB) havent been able to prove its that much warmer with dark interiors.

One explaination of the butt dyno/thermometer could be that dark colors release heat faster so you are feeling more heat over shorter time being released, thus feeling warmer. But the same ammount of heat in a lighter interior is being released slower so you "feel" like its cooler - releasing the heat slower over longer time. Just a guess.

As for your tint concerns, take a look at Huper Optik ceramic tints. They come in all shades, even clear (actually its something like 95%). I think the clear still blocks 98% UV and a high % heat (above 80%). The type of tint matter more than the shade. Those old limo tints that some people still use only block visible light, not heat. If you go to a place that installs ceramic tint they should have a nice demostration set up and you will be amazed.