[Panoz]

Is it just my idea or the DSC ,ACT ,etc causes reductions on car's performance?

Does the above systems ever activated without any indication on the panel?

[assuck]

it takes power away from the wheels when (it thinks) youre in trouble

[aerisolphaln]

I drive an '05 G35 coupe 6MT with something called Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) which is very similar, although somewhat less intrusive, to DSC. VDC functions just like DSC to limit power output to the drive wheels, apply the breaks, or perform various other interventions when it detects that you are or are about to lose control.

The problem is that these systems intervene far too often, making it difficult to get decent amounts of performance out of your car during regular driving, impossible to perform spirited driving, and just plain ridiculous at the track.

For example, it is impossible to launch the G at even 30% of maximum without the VDC detecting "wheel spin" and cutting in, bogging down the engine and breaking - all while you're trying to take off from a stop light/sign. I also find the VDC will kick in on rapid 1-2 shifts and some 2-3 shifts.

As a rule, I NEVER drive with VDC on and ALWAYS turn it off immediately after starting my engine, before fastening my seat belt, while I'm waiting for the engine to warm itself. In my experience, this function limits the car to about 40% of its sporting/performance potential. The only time I'll use VDC is during snow storms (for which I have my winter tires and wheels on) with at least 2 inches of snow on the ground - gotta love Iowa.

I have driven 2 335i coupe 6MT's in the last 6 weeks. Both jaunts were a little over 30 minutes on windy back roads and open 2 lane highways. The first thing I did in both cars before moving 1 foot was to fully deactivate DSC. I FLOGGED both 335i's and had no issues with keeping either one firmly planted on the road through tight turns or launching hard from standstill.

While I have never driven the 335i with DSC on to compare to my G, people I've talked to who have driven the 2 cars with the stability programs on say the DSC intervenes far more often than my VDC. This would drive me mad - what's the point of the car if you can't fully drive it.

Of course, there is another post going on about how someone wrecked his car on an on-ramp when his DSC malfunctioned, so you don't want to shut it off if you don't know how to handle a rear-wheel drive car with enough power to get you into trouble.

[Russellnyc]

The only time I'll use VDC is during snow storms (for which I have my winter tires and wheels on) with at least 2 inches of snow on the ground - gotta love Iowa.

This is interesting because this is the only time I absolutely don't use traction control. BMW traction control in the snow is really annoying, it retards power so much it causes your car to bog and you can't get up slippery hills. Even BMW recommends that you turn it off (or, turn on DTC, which to my foot feels like the samet hing as turning it off).

[aerisolphaln]

^^^^^

As I mentioned, VDC is quite a bit less intrusive with its bogging than DSC. The Infiniti/Nissan product does actually help out during active snow storms with snow accumulating on the roadways.

I also forgot to mention that with VDC on I can't attain 60% of max throttle in 1 during any of the RPM band, or above 3500RPM in gear 2, without VDC taking over and totally ruining the fun.

I can't IMAGINE driving either of these cars with the VDC/DSC on most of the time - why not just buy a Corolla if you're not going to be able to use the power.

[SROC3]

So does it mean that even if the light does NOT blink on-and-off, that the system still inhibits performance?

[325 Baller]

I can proudly say my DSC helped me today. Was being stupid (like usual) and decided to take a turn from one road to the main strech (like a 2 mile road) before my left turn to my neighborhood and took the turn at about ~50 (prob closer to 45) didnt realize the ground was still wet from the rain earlier and skidded until the traction control kicked in and prob saved me from going over the median lol No i do not no how to drift but i believe i was "drifting" until the DSC kicked in.

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by SROC3

So does it mean that even if the light does NOT blink on-and-off, that the system still inhibits performance?

Yes i have been told from the dealer that the systems works without indication on your panel when its interfearance is not so intense.

When you tend to drive the car more "aggressive" the indications starts to blink in order to inform you that the system keeps the car on the track and not the driver.

[GS833]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

I drive an '05 G35 coupe 6MT with something called Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) which is very similar, although somewhat less intrusive, to DSC. VDC functions just like DSC to limit power output to the drive wheels, apply the breaks, or perform various other interventions when it detects that you are or are about to lose control.

The problem is that these systems intervene far too often, making it difficult to get decent amounts of performance out of your car during regular driving, impossible to perform spirited driving, and just plain ridiculous at the track.

For example, it is impossible to launch the G at even 30% of maximum without the VDC detecting "wheel spin" and cutting in, bogging down the engine and breaking - all while you're trying to take off from a stop light/sign. I also find the VDC will kick in on rapid 1-2 shifts and some 2-3 shifts.

As a rule, I NEVER drive with VDC on and ALWAYS turn it off immediately after starting my engine, before fastening my seat belt, while I'm waiting for the engine to warm itself. In my experience, this function limits the car to about 40% of its sporting/performance potential. The only time I'll use VDC is during snow storms (for which I have my winter tires and wheels on) with at least 2 inches of snow on the ground - gotta love Iowa.

I have driven 2 335i coupe 6MT's in the last 6 weeks. Both jaunts were a little over 30 minutes on windy back roads and open 2 lane highways. The first thing I did in both cars before moving 1 foot was to fully deactivate DSC. I FLOGGED both 335i's and had no issues with keeping either one firmly planted on the road through tight turns or launching hard from standstill.

While I have never driven the 335i with DSC on to compare to my G, people I've talked to who have driven the 2 cars with the stability programs on say the DSC intervenes far more often than my VDC. This would drive me mad - what's the point of the car if you can't fully drive it.

Of course, there is another post going on about how someone wrecked his car on an on-ramp when his DSC malfunctioned, so you don't want to shut it off if you don't know how to handle a rear-wheel drive car with enough power to get you into trouble.

The big difference between your car and ours without traction control is, I believe you have an LSD in yours

[aerisolphaln]

^^^^

Well, there is that...

[voltron1011]

The system is always 'working'... This is the reason why there's always brake-dust accumulating on the wheels when driving on freeways and bi-ways...

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

^^^^^

As I mentioned, VDC is quite a bit less intrusive with its bogging than DSC. The Infiniti/Nissan product does actually help out during active snow storms with snow accumulating on the roadways.

I also forgot to mention that with VDC on I can't attain 60% of max throttle in 1 during any of the RPM band, or above 3500RPM in gear 2, without VDC taking over and totally ruining the fun.

I can't IMAGINE driving either of these cars with the VDC/DSC on most of the time - why not just buy a Corolla if you're not going to be able to use the power.

I have a 335i coupe auto with paddles. I've had it one week. I haven't turned off DSC or DTC. EVERYTHING I've read is that you should leave this system on in all instances EXCEPT when it's real snowy and you need the wheels to slip a little to get moving. The performance is not affected by 60%-40%- or even 10% by having the DSC on. If anything I can accelerate more quickly (from what I've read) with it on, as there's almost no wheel spin. From what I've read (as I have not tried it yet... break-in period and all) turning off DSC results in lots of tire spin. I suppose if you're Michael Schumacher (I'm certainly not), the system would be more dangerous than if you had complete control over the car.

BTW... I see you're in Iowa city... GO HAWKS!

[aerisolphaln]

Go Hawks - Ferentz is overpaid.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

Go Hawks - Ferentz is overpaid.

I'll begin this with...

So there....

I agree... Ferentz was really overpaid THIS year. If he doesn't get things turned around then he'll be overpaid... period. I can't believe we had a losing record in football. Don't ge me started on Alford. He's just

[aerisolphaln]

Also, you really should try turning of DSC and drive the car abit to get the feel for how to handle it without the software program to back you up. It takes just a little getting used to, but you can have much more fun when you're in total control.

As I'm thinking about it, both 335i coupes I drove were 6MT's, which require some wheel spin to be able to launch at maximum and take WOT acceleration in low gears. Perhaps this is not the case with STEPTRONIC and DSC will only intervene with cornering maneuvers.

As one user put it, in powerful rear wheel drive cars, the throttle becomes an extension of the steering wheel.

[Russellnyc]

If anything I can accelerate more quickly (from what I've read) with it on, as there's almost no wheel spin

Actually, this isn't true. Wheelspin, if not excessive, helps you accelerate faster than the alternative, which is the reduction in engine power effected by traction control. If I need to go fast, I need to at least engage DSC. In cool, dry, conditions (38F), I can't access full power in 1st or sometimes 2nd gear without wheelspin, because traction control is backing off the throttle.

[heezyo2o]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

I drive an '05 G35 coupe 6MT with something called Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) which is very similar, although somewhat less intrusive, to DSC.

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

As I mentioned, VDC is quite a bit less intrusive with its bogging than DSC. The Infiniti/Nissan product does actually help out during active snow storms with snow accumulating on the roadways.

I'd have to disagree with that. VDC is much more intrusive and overzealous with its brake use and power cutoff. DSC is a much more advanced system and is more linear and gradual when it operates. VDC on the other hand is more like an on/off switch.

In a straight line, say when you redline 1st and shift quickly into 2nd, both systems will be abrupt as they try to limit wheel spin. In the canyons however, when you are trying to push the car around corners, DSC comes on much more gradual, while VDC still operates in an abrupt manner.

I find that DSC and the traction control system in mercedes, ESP, operate in a similar manner. Nevermind that ESP will turn back on once a threshold has been reached. The stability system in porsches is supposed to be even better.

[aerisolphaln]

^^^^^^

Interesting. I keep telling myself I should further test the differences between the 2 control systems...but I just can't get myself to drive either car with the stability programs on!!

I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

[Walked U]

Sorry if im getting of topic but...

What do you guys launch with? When I launch my car I usually only turn off DTC. I had bad experiance with turning off DSC once.

Turned both off and droped the clutch at 2k rpm's. My car fish tailed all through 2nd gear. After that I only been taking off DTC.

But I heard people getting alot better times when both are turned off.

[aerisolphaln]

Originally Posted by Walked U

What do you guys launch with? When I launch my car I usually only turn off DTC. I had bad experiance with turning off DSC once.

Turned both off and droped the clutch at 2k rpm's. My car fish tailed all through 2nd gear. After that I only been taking off DTC.

Now, I know I don't own a 335 yet, but I've read through the owner's manual on the DSC/DTC section 3 times and driven the car twice afterwards to confirm these things for myself:

DSC is ON by default. DTC is OFF by default. You can turn ON DTC by pressing the DTC button. You can disable the DSC by pressing the DTC and holding it for five seconds. BMW recommends DTC only for "low traction situations" and recommends basically to never turn off DSC.

[aerisolphaln]

Of course, I never plan to drive with DSC, but to each their own.

[Snakeii]

imo dont use dtc or tsc on the car i dont better launches (part from in the wet)