Testament to how good the 335 brakes are

Ramos · 05-04-2010, 06:53 PM

This month Car and Driver prints a follow up article investigating the reasons behind the Nissan 370Z Nismo catastrophic brake failure during the Lightning Round run at VIR causing that car to crash into the barrier ...

The article is entitled:
Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap -- A follow-up look into what caused the brake failure and collision of our Nissan NISMO 370Z.

Sorry no link as the article in not available on their website

Basically there are three problems:
1. Inadequate pads that melt away after a couple of hot runs
Nissan now offers a $580 track brake pad option (how this is not the standard choice on the Nismo car is beyond me)
2. brake fluid that boiled way too fast
Solution aftermarket brake fluid with higher boiling temp
3. Overall brake cooling is lacking in the Z design

Here is the kicker, according to car and driver, after implementing solutions 1 and 2, (the optional brake pads and aftermarket brake fluid), the Nismo still did not perform as many panic stops as the 335 before fading
The author specifically calls out the 335 brakes as being superior in stock form even compared to the modified Nismo 'solution"

pcstuff · 05-04-2010, 06:57 PM

Don't forget to thank your tires too

Ramos · 05-04-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcstuff

Don't forget to thank your tires too

Nothing to do with tires whatsoever man..
this was a test designed to perform as many panic stops in sequence and find out at what point the brakes start to fade and the stopping distances start to increase along with pedal travel

It was not a competition to see which car has the best stopping distances which would be a factor of brakes and tires

Barbera335 · 05-04-2010, 08:13 PM

The exact same thing happened to my 2007 328i at Laguna Seca so it's not just a Nissan problem. Granted the 328 brakes are smaller than the 335 so they work harder but that being said. Virtually no street brake pads or brake fluid are capable of track use. The brake fluid in my 328 boiled and the pads crumbled away when I removed the from the caliper. I learned my lesson with an off track excursion that could have been an impact if it were'nt for luck being on my side.

Verbiage · 05-04-2010, 08:36 PM

335 brakes ftw.

dreamingat30fps · 05-04-2010, 08:38 PM

That's why I replaced my brake fluid with some castrol srf which may be a bit overkill but better safe than sorry. Pads have held up pretty well although I don't really track it very hard.

GregTheStig · 05-04-2010, 08:42 PM

The brakes on my 328i have saved me a bunch as well. I can't even imagine a panic stop in the 335i.

Verbiage · 05-04-2010, 08:52 PM

A panic stop in a 335i is enough to cause a panic

335e92tx · 05-04-2010, 08:52 PM

The nismo did seem to have some abnormal symptoms in their brake test 18 months prior
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ce_cars_page_4
But on stop 16, the pedal bottomed out, the distance increased 38 percent (to 448 feet), and it just got worse thereafter. This sudden increase in pedal travel suggests that the brake fluid was simply getting too hot, so we suspect that a change to higher-temp fluid would greatly improve braking performance.

Turkeybaster115 · 05-04-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Here is the kicker, according to car and driver, after implementing solutions 1 and 2, (the optional brake pads and aftermarket brake fluid), the Nismo still did not perform as many panic stops as the 335 before fading
The author specifically calls out the 335 brakes as being superior in stock form even compared to the modified Nismo 'solution"

did they notice the amount of brake dust our cars create?

FLA 335 · 05-04-2010, 09:18 PM

i had a panic stop as there were red light cameras (i was more worried about stopping and getting slammed from behind by someone)... car Stopped RIDICULOUSY fast....!!! OMG... sick plus they saved me at the end of a long straight away when i got distracted and almosted ended up in the sand trap! lol.... no comment on that...

Verbiage · 05-04-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLA 335

i had a panic stop as there were red light cameras (i was more worried about stopping and getting slammed from behind by someone)... car Stopped RIDICULOUSY fast....!!! OMG... sick plus they saved me at the end of a long straight away when i got distracted and almosted ended up in the sand trap! lol.... no comment on that...

Someone must have been preoccupied

fdriller9 · 05-04-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

did they notice the amount of brake dust our cars create?

Not just 335s...all BMWs. I don't understand why they can't invest alittle more and implement low dust pads.

Alexander · 05-04-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *********

Not just 335s...all BMWs. I don't understand why they can't invest alittle more and implement low dust pads.

They really need to. It's ridiculous!

ragingclue · 05-04-2010, 09:48 PM

Ok so does it say that the 335 wasn't in limp mode during the test? More than 2 laps seems like a lot.

Verbiage · 05-04-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aonarch

They really need to. It's ridiculous!

Says the matte black wheels guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Ok so does it say that the 335 wasn't in limp mode during the test? More than 2 laps seems like a lot.

JoeyBananaz18 · 05-04-2010, 10:35 PM

wow. this isnt something id expect from nissan. lately their stock is dropping in my book. with all the tranny problems in the GT-R and now this?

satakal · 05-04-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbera335

The exact same thing happened to my 2007 328i at Laguna Seca so it's not just a Nissan problem. Granted the 328 brakes are smaller than the 335 so they work harder but that being said. Virtually no street brake pads or brake fluid are capable of track use. The brake fluid in my 328 boiled and the pads crumbled away when I removed the from the caliper. I learned my lesson with an off track excursion that could have been an impact if it were'nt for luck being on my side.

A few things:

Exact? Hyperbole of course? I don't think you totaled your car.
No street pads or brake fluid can handle track use? All the stock e90s I see at the track must have received the "special" pads and fluid when they left Germany.
Unless you had a failure, which you didn't, it's your fault you had an off, not the car's.
Don't mistake pads that don't hold together at removal as failure.
I hope you got rid of that 328 and got a 335. Otherwise, your screen name is... comical.

Verbiage · 05-04-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satakal

A few things:

Exact? Hyperbole of course? I don't think you totaled your car.
No street pads or brake fluid can handle track use? All the stock e90s I see at the track must have received the "special" pads and fluid when they left Germany.
Unless you had a failure, which you didn't, it's your fault you had an off, not the car's.
Don't mistake pads that don't hold together at removal as failure.
I hope you got rid of that 328 and got a 335. Otherwise, your screen name is... comical.

Barbera335 · 05-05-2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satakal

A few things:

Exact? Hyperbole of course? I don't think you totaled your car.
No street pads or brake fluid can handle track use? All the stock e90s I see at the track must have received the "special" pads and fluid when they left Germany.
Unless you had a failure, which you didn't, it's your fault you had an off, not the car's.
Don't mistake pads that don't hold together at removal as failure.
I hope you got rid of that 328 and got a 335. Otherwise, your screen name is... comical.

Oh where to begin, I had a 328, traded to a 335, and now I have a 330i. I really don't see the relevance of that to this topic but whatever. Just because a car is on the track does'nt mean it belongs there. For an occasional track day stock pads and fluid are fine but when your confidence goes up and you start pushing the car to 9 or 10/10ths the pads and fluid are the weak link and they will give out. And Laguna Seca is very hard on braking systems. It is the only track I've been too where I had the issue of complete brake fade. Which I would'nt consider a failure, just me expecting more of my car than it could deliver. And last I checked, when a pad is at 7mm and crumbles away from the backing when removed from the caliper it is a failure of the pad. But like I said, it was my fault for expecting more of the brakes than they could deliver.

bsamoul · 05-05-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

BMW's brakes are just awesome in general.

BMW brakes FTMFW

Ramos · 05-05-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbera335

Oh where to begin, I had a 328, traded to a 335, and now I have a 330i. I really don't see the relevance of that to this topic but whatever. Just because a car is on the track does'nt mean it belongs there. For an occasional track day stock pads and fluid are fine but when your confidence goes up and you start pushing the car to 9 or 10/10ths the pads and fluid are the weak link and they will give out. And Laguna Seca is very hard on braking systems. It is the only track I've been too where I had the issue of complete brake fade. Which I would'nt consider a failure, just me expecting more of my car than it could deliver. And last I checked, when a pad is at 7mm and crumbles away from the backing when removed from the caliper it is a failure of the pad. But like I said, it was my fault for expecting more of the brakes than they could deliver.

That's exactly what Satakal was trying to tell you, but you think you know best ... The E90 brakes, in particular the 335 brakes CAN and DO deliver at the track... The problems you were having are all driver related... go learn to not overdrive your car and let's get this thread back on topic please

05-04-2010, 06:53 PM	#1
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	Testament to how good the 335 brakes are This month Car and Driver prints a follow up article investigating the reasons behind the Nissan 370Z Nismo catastrophic brake failure during the Lightning Round run at VIR causing that car to crash into the barrier ... The article is entitled: Z Meets Wall: We Investigate Why the NISMO Z's Brakes Failed at Lightning Lap -- A follow-up look into what caused the brake failure and collision of our Nissan NISMO 370Z. Sorry no link as the article in not available on their website Basically there are three problems: 1. Inadequate pads that melt away after a couple of hot runs Nissan now offers a $580 track brake pad option (how this is not the standard choice on the Nismo car is beyond me) 2. brake fluid that boiled way too fast Solution aftermarket brake fluid with higher boiling temp 3. Overall brake cooling is lacking in the Z design Here is the kicker, according to car and driver, after implementing solutions 1 and 2, (the optional brake pads and aftermarket brake fluid), the Nismo still did not perform as many panic stops as the 335 before fading The author specifically calls out the 335 brakes as being superior in stock form even compared to the modified Nismo 'solution"
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05-04-2010, 06:57 PM	#2
pcstuff Feverish Fanatic 1 Rep 77 Posts Drives: M235i Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 335i [0.00] 2006 330i [0.00]	Don't forget to thank your tires too
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05-04-2010, 08:13 PM	#4
Barbera335 Captain 169 Rep 660 Posts Drives: F25 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: socal iTrader: (0)	The exact same thing happened to my 2007 328i at Laguna Seca so it's not just a Nissan problem. Granted the 328 brakes are smaller than the 335 so they work harder but that being said. Virtually no street brake pads or brake fluid are capable of track use. The brake fluid in my 328 boiled and the pads crumbled away when I removed the from the caliper. I learned my lesson with an off track excursion that could have been an impact if it were'nt for luck being on my side.
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05-04-2010, 08:36 PM	#5
Verbiage Dismembered Member 3583 Rep 9,213 Posts Drives: F80 ZCP 6MT, R55 Clubman S 6MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: DMV iTrader: (6)	335 brakes ftw. __________________ My delivery experience and beach photoshoot here.
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05-04-2010, 08:38 PM	#6
dreamingat30fps Lieutenant Colonel 5330 Rep 1,912 Posts Drives: Miata, Cayenne, Model 3, F350 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida & NC iTrader: (1)	That's why I replaced my brake fluid with some castrol srf which may be a bit overkill but better safe than sorry. Pads have held up pretty well although I don't really track it very hard.
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05-04-2010, 08:42 PM	#7
GregTheStig derp 48 Rep 1,203 Posts Drives: a Tuk Tuk Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (1)	The brakes on my 328i have saved me a bunch as well. I can't even imagine a panic stop in the 335i. __________________
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05-04-2010, 08:52 PM	#8
Verbiage Dismembered Member 3583 Rep 9,213 Posts Drives: F80 ZCP 6MT, R55 Clubman S 6MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: DMV iTrader: (6)	A panic stop in a 335i is enough to cause a panic __________________ My delivery experience and beach photoshoot here.
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05-04-2010, 08:52 PM	#9
335e92tx ahat 1036 Rep 2,592 Posts Drives: Was '07-335e92 - Now '13-335IS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (6)	The nismo did seem to have some abnormal symptoms in their brake test 18 months prior http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ce_cars_page_4 But on stop 16, the pedal bottomed out, the distance increased 38 percent (to 448 feet), and it just got worse thereafter. This sudden increase in pedal travel suggests that the brake fluid was simply getting too hot, so we suspect that a change to higher-temp fluid would greatly improve braking performance. __________________ '13 335IS N54 (1 of 373 LeMans Blue out of 3597 total production e92)- Grey interior (1 of 24 in LMB with any trans- 1 of 14 with DCT)-MODS -MFactory LSD/MHD-BQ custom Tune/ATM-IC/AFE Momentum GT Intake/Konis/Mfront&HeimJoint Rear rods&arms/Brembos. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lo6aHZRo7XqtPkhL8
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05-04-2010, 09:18 PM	#11
FLA 335 Captain 24 Rep 746 Posts Drives: 2009 335i (SOLD) !!!!! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Miami Fl iTrader: (7)	i had a panic stop as there were red light cameras (i was more worried about stopping and getting slammed from behind by someone)... car Stopped RIDICULOUSY fast....!!! OMG... sick plus they saved me at the end of a long straight away when i got distracted and almosted ended up in the sand trap! lol.... no comment on that... __________________ 2009 BMW 335i Sedan / Auto / Paddles / Sport / BMW Assist / Heated seats / JB Matte Black Grill / Tischer First Aid Kit w\Triangle / Tischer Hood Pad / "Custom" rear fog switch <---- SOLD!!!!
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05-04-2010, 09:48 PM	#15
ragingclue One cam is enough 130 Rep 6,801 Posts Drives: VF Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: mulletville iTrader: (1)	Ok so does it say that the 335 wasn't in limp mode during the test? More than 2 laps seems like a lot.
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05-04-2010, 10:35 PM	#17
JoeyBananaz18 Brigadier General 398 Rep 4,084 Posts Drives: metrocard Join Date: May 2009 Location: Whitestone, NY iTrader: (3)	wow. this isnt something id expect from nissan. lately their stock is dropping in my book. with all the tranny problems in the GT-R and now this? __________________ 7/18/09- I pick up my baby- 2009 E92 335i Xdrive, Space Gray over Coral Red. Premium Pkg, Cold Weather Pkg, M-Sport Pkg, 193Ms, Gloss Black grills, Custom Gloss Black Mirrors, Performance shift and E-brake boot, M3 spoiler, Euro fog switch, gloss black interior tim, Coco-Mats (red/black), H&R coilovers, 19'' Alufelgen SF-71s......
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