[sworks335i]

Okay,

So, I have been reading over and over all these new engines and changes for the upcoming MY and I know we all obsess over more power and better fuel economy but there is just one issue with this that I see.

Every year the cars get heavier and heavier. Leading to what can be considered poor handling and the need for larger parts to help control the weight when it comes to handling. Which, bottom line effects EFFICIENCY. Right? And its not like its only BMW, its every automaker complaining about not being able to meet the demands of the government regulations.

There was an intersting article in C&D's last month issue I believe about the newest replacement for the F430. How over the years they keep adding more power but they manage to keep the weight overall the same (around 3300lbs). I don't see how hard that can be. BMW is willing to keep pushing the limits of engine design and efficiency (N55), as well as all other automobile manufactures but they are not seeing the overall picture. The true hurdle for EFFICIENCY is clearly weight.

Just been running this through my head for the past couple months. I know safety is a huge reason for all these cars becoming bloated over recent years but there has to be someone out there that sees this and wants to put cars on a diet. Save our handling and save us money at the pumps! Give me a lighter car!

My .02. Please feel free to argue the point.

Cheers

[Buegie]

nobody's demanding more luxury features on an F430, whereas with BMW's, customers are. Customers want more features, more power, less weight and lower (or the same) cost. Something's gotta give

Originally Posted by Buegie

nobody's demanding more luxury features on an F430, whereas with BMW's, customers are. Customers want more features, more power, less weight and lower (or the same) cost. Something's gotta give

Weight really isn't a big concern for the general car buyer and probably most would welcome a heavier car because they would believe it to be a safer sturdier car. In my experience, my uncle bought my cousin a 5 series because it was a heavier car and looked safer than a 3er which I'm guessing it probably might be so but you dont look at a lotus or something light and think safety...

[Buegie]

Originally Posted by my92

Weight really isn't a big concern for the general car buyer and probably most would welcome a heavier car because they would believe it to be a safer sturdier car. In my experience, my uncle bought my cousin a 5 series because it was a heavier car and looked safer than a 3er which I'm guessing it probably might be so but you dont look at a lotus or something light and think safety...

that was sort of my point, the weight of the car is probably the area of least concern with many customers so BMW decides not to put a great deal of effort into reducing it.

[sworks335i]

Originally Posted by Buegie

nobody's demanding more luxury features on an F430, whereas with BMW's, customers are. Customers want more features, more power, less weight and lower (or the same) cost. Something's gotta give

I'll agree that BMW owners demand more "options" as technologies come along. I guess it is a good thing if nothing else that the new N55 engine weighs 40lbs less than the N54.

I guess my main push in this topic was the development of lighter and stronger materials of some sort. Which then again turns to cost. I guess thats why only ///M models get CF roofs.

[sworks335i]

Originally Posted by Buegie

that was sort of my point, the weight of the car is probably the area of least concern with many customers so BMW decides not to put a great deal of effort into reducing it.

I feel like even if it was not for a performance point, it would at least be for a more efficient MPG point that would drive the weight loss of vehicles.

[Michael Schott]

BMW does a better job at holding down weight than most car companies. Consider the 5 series vs the Cadillac CTS. The 2WD CTS is about 4100 pounds and the 535 is about 3700 pounds with the Steptronic.

Ferrari holds down weight because in a $230,000.00 car they can afford the luxury of carbon fiber parts.

[sworks335i]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The 40 lb. drop on the N55 is due to one less turbo and related plumbing.

This is true but weight is weight. Any loss is a good one!

[The HACK]

F430 cost $250,000 new. Throughout the years it's not hard to put some exotic materials on Ferraris to keep their weight down. On a BMW? To keep the E9X weighing 3,300 lbs it'll probably cost about $75,000.

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by my92

Weight really isn't a big concern for the general car buyer and probably most would welcome a heavier car because they would believe it to be a safer sturdier car...

A good point - this is why SUVs sell.

btw I just saw a commercial for the new accords getting some sort of weight reduction by the use of a lighter new method of frame construction that doesn't increase car costs...what's this all about and can it be applied to BMW?

[richmalk]

I find it amazing that BMW designs a carbon fiber roof for the M3, while letting the total weight approach 2 tons. I think the carbon fiber roof is more marketing than function, even though I realize it's weight up high.

There are several issues that prevent weight reduction in BMWs. First is the perceived consumer focus on reduced NVH and "solidity," BMW core attributes, which require things like high sprung-unsprung weight ratios, wads of sound proofing, very thick glass. Corvette has done a great job at keeping weight down, but some complain that it feels flimsy and cheap as a consequence (vibrating plastic panels and light, thin seats). That wouldn't work for BMW.

Another issue, besides obvious cost of high strength materials like aluminum, high strength steel and carbon fiber, is repair costs. Aluminum framed cars like Audis and Aston Martins cost a fortune to repair (which translates to higher insurance rates).

There has been more return on R&D dollars on increasing power, safety and electronics than in reducing weight. I think those times are changing now.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by my92

btw I just saw a commercial for the new accords getting some sort of weight reduction by the use of a lighter new method of frame construction that doesn't increase car costs...what's this all about and can it be applied to BMW?

BMW is most likely already using some form of what Honda is using to lighten the weight of an Accord. Don't forget, the V-6 accord weights more than the 335i.

Most likely what they speak of are either aluminum frames attached to light-weight high tensile strength steel like how the 3 & 5 series are constructed, and have been so for the last 9 years.

[cotmfk]

OP is right, weight on cars is just going up and up. It will take a huge gas crisis to get them down. The recent gas crisis has helped a bit, but people seem to forget fast now. Gas is still $3 a gallon... ridiculous.

[bavarian19]

The F430 was still a big and heavier car for most Ferrari's.


With the Italia about to hit streets, it is a much lighter Ferrari with more power.


Unfortunately, you will probably need to go exotic to get a true lightweight high power car.