[samwoo2go]

I started writting this as a reply to the "what my SA said this morning" thread http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337622 and i got more and more angry as I am writting, and this shit got longer and longer so I decided to just make it a new thread instead of Thread jacking his...enjoy

I honestly think its not that BMW has that much more problems than other luxury brands or even brands in general, its the type of people that buy BMW. We complain too much because you know...the prick is on the inside, as the joke goes. However I also understand that Alot of us are perfectionist and we can't tolerate any BS problems at all hence all the complaining. But the point is all cars have problems, I bought the BMW for BMW specialties, not Toyota specialties. GTFO if you want both because nothing is perfect.

But seriously guys wassup with the nonstop complaining. We complain about EVERYTHING!!! I am so tired of seeing threads like O I dunno if I want to buy a BMW because of the HPFP thing, its so rediculous on a 50K car blah blah blah. For crying out loud whats the big god damn deal about the stupid fucking HPFP. Mine went out at 10K, went into dealership in the morning got a loaner and free shitty coffee, went to work, the car is done and good to go when I got off. Like nothing happened. I mean they even extended the HPFP warranty to 100K, what more do you want? I swear if I see another fucking HPFP = bad BMW thread Imna track your IP address down and stab your right eye with a #2 pencil.

And all you guys crying about o its SOOOOO dangerous when HPFP fail when driving, accidents blah blah blah, hey look big baby, if you can't safely pull over when your car stops working suddendly you shouldn't be driving...with inflatable tires. If your car takes more than 2 seconds to crank over, something is wrong and you gotta take it to the shop. If you car takes like half an hour to start and you just keep driving that shit like nothing happened, I am sorry but you should enroll yourself into I AM A DUMBASS school of LEARN SOME COMMON SENSE. Even my mom who can't tell a dipstick apart from a steering wheel knew something is wrong with my car when it takes a while to crank over.

You want to know what is really fucking dangerous. Toyota's carpet that makes your acclereator pedal stuck, now that shit is fucking dangerous, and you know how they fix it after the recall?...Ziptie...yup fucking ziptie. Everyone thinks Toyota is like the top dog is reliability, and they actually have a dangerous problem but I see no end of world amount of threads over on their forum about o fuck toyota because of carpet. The camry also have the scratch inside window thing, and no1 seems to give a shit.

Some times I just sense this attitude comming from some people. Hey we get it, you think you paid 50K for a car and it should be perfect. You need to come check out my aunt's 80K+ Range Rover sport and the nightmare bullshit electrical problems it has. All these is not to mention that the amount of maintenance cost I saved over $50K miles is enough for me to purchase extended warrenty till 100K, well maybe I gotta pay alittle, but a major part is "paid for"...I really can't see what the big fucking buzz is.

[I335]

Don't know if I'd be as harsh as you, but I agree with you 100%. The price of a car has nothing to do with reliability. If that were the case, Ferraris, Lambos, Rolls, Bentlys, etc. would be problem free and if you think about it, they're among the most finiky cars in the world. Hi performance is hard to achieve and yes, it comes at a cost. If folks are so upset about the problems they have with their $50k BMWs then they should be driving $15K Toyotas & Hondas. One of the main reasons they're not as finiky as our BMWs is because they don't do anything nearly as well as our BMWs do!

[anthony @ eas]

Originally Posted by samwoo2go

You want to know what is really fucking dangerous. Toyota's carpet that makes your acclereator pedal stuck, now that shit is fucking dangerous, and you know how they fix it after the recall?...Ziptie...yup fucking ziptie. Everyone thinks Toyota is like the top dog is reliability, and they actually have a dangerous problem but I see no end of world amount of threads over on their forum about o fuck toyota because of carpet.

If a zip-tie could fix the HPFP issues I'm sure everyone would do it. A fix is a fix.

[ultimate]

agree'd. tagging with what you said above, bmw drivers as well as many other luxury car owners will bitch even for something small. i would say wealthy people in general tends to do this - from experience.

note that we are also on a bmw enthusiast forum so of coarse we are going to see shit like this.

[JayKay335i]

I agree. I'm tired of coming on here and every thread is "HPFP.....", "Should I buy one with a HPFP?", "Reliability issues with HPFP", and the good ol' "WTF IS A HPFP?" threads.

Its a car, they all have problems. HPFP is ours. Having an aggressively large vagina is Lexus'.

Everybody needs to grow some nads and stop complaining or GTFO.

[Me_Hi]

yeah man !

I'll drink to this post !

[F32Fleet]

I understand where you're coming from and I do think BMW owners are one of the most likely to complain about "X", but the reality is that $50k is still a big chunk of $$ for a car, and when that car begins to have problems like that of a $15k car you have reason to be pissed off. It's frustrating when your led to believe believe that the price premium you pay is for marginally better performance and luxury.

I'll give you some examples:

E46 pre-mature failure of window regulators; flimsy sunshade clips which would break and require removal of head liner to repair; Faulty engine coils.
E90 - N/A (255/230 hp) engines experiencing valve tap; HPFP failures.


Sure the HPFP is warrantied for 10yrs or whatever, but it's a gross inconvience to have to get one replaced multiple times, and a shame to have to worry about whether or not you can drive the car out of state for fear of being stranded. The fact that BMW has never fixed that part is amazing in itself.

I'll also add that I believe more than ever that the majority of BMW owners really stretched financialy to get into their cars and that just adds more stress to the ownership exerpience.


My biggest gripe with BMW is how they warranty their transmissions.

[lesha]

also, people who visit and post on these forums are a minority among bmw owners, i think that there are way more bmw owners out there without any problems, or if they do have problems they don't go on the forum to bitch about

i believe that stereotypes do hold true, japanese cars are more reliable than german cars and that's just the way it is, but we still buy bmw, because we want a bmw and that's just the way it is

[mike-y]

word brutha.

Most people don't know much about cars, so they hear a squeek, they think something is wrong with their car. Most of the crap people complain about is normal wear and tear. BMWs are not known for their reliability, it isn't a secret. yeah, the hpfp is an issue, but at least the warranty was extended. People need to go back and time and see what it was like to own a luxury car in the 80s, and then come back to now and see how much better things are.

The floor mat issue with toyota is a good example of the general ignorance of today's drivers. Just about every non-bmw car I've had or driven has had the pedals hinged from the firewall, and there has been a chance the floor mat can get bunched up, making the pedal stick. I think this has actually happened to me once or twice, and I grabbed the foor mat and pulled it out. Then I probably threw it away if it did it again and got a new mat. this issue has existed for years and years and years, yet now it's a big thing because someone put the wrong mats in a rental car and the driver didn't know how to pull it out. Who hasn't driven a car where the floor mat rides up after a while?

Originally Posted by Socom

I'll also add that I believe more than ever that the majority of BMW owners really stretched financialy to get into their cars and that just adds more stress to the ownership exerpience.

I have no sympathy for people who make poor financial decisions because they want to be seen in a mad tite car yo.

[RV8tor]

Originally Posted by lesha

also, people who visit and post on these forums are a minority among bmw owners, i think that there are way more bmw owners out there without any problems, or if they do have problems they don't go on the forum to bitch about

i believe that stereotypes do hold true, japanese cars are more reliable than german cars and that's just the way it is, but we still buy bmw, because we want a bmw and that's just the way it is

A very rich person once told me "The richer you are the cheaper and more anal you become".

We are the minority who absolutely LOVE our cars. Some love our cars more than our spouses. We (forum members) want to know EVERYTHING - good, bad, or indifferent, about our cars. I know a number of BMW owners who don't even know about or care that these forums exist.

Japanese cars are more reliable than AMERICAN cars. People who buy European cars know what they are getting into.

If BMW sold a Pickup, I would have 3 BMW's in my driveway.

[John 070]

I'll be the first to say I don't agree. I don't think one has to rationalize that "it's okay" that anybody's car is unreliable. Not at $12k, not at $100k.

With that being said, a BMW is a very enjoyable car to drive. More so than Lexus, Infiniti, Hyundai, Honda, Buick, all of which are more reliable than BMW.

If a car is not the center of our lives, i.e. financially, emotionally, etc., we can tolerate the fact that a 335 can't start multiple times or leaves us stranded, because the dealer will give us a loaner or we can use our other car. But if that 335 is all we got so to speak, I can envision how maddening it could be driving a Kia loaner.

So my advice to BMW owners is realize it's gonna be below avg. for reliability, and the price is a bit steep. Fight those factors by paying off your car, and having a 2nd car to use when you have to get where you're going without fail. What you get in return is enjoyment when the thing is running.

[Oulixes]

Complaining about HPFP and such on the forum has had no impact on the BMW sales in 2009.

[JakeN5]

I bet you won't keep your car beyond that extended warranty on the hpfp. Therein lies your problem, dude. You say you love your car now, but you will ditch it when the time comes. And WTF is up with that pissant mood? If you don't like a particular subject matter on a post, don't read it. Ever heard of free speech? The OP of the thread you quoted merely wanted to share his surprise at his SA's comment. He didn't start it to rant about BMW's reliability, IIRC.

Originally Posted by samwoo2go

I started writting this as a reply to the "what my SA said this morning" thread http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337622 and i got more and more angry as I am writting, and this shit got longer and longer so I decided to just make it a new thread instead of Thread jacking his...enjoy

I honestly think its not that BMW has that much more problems than other luxury brands or even brands in general, its the type of people that buy BMW. We complain too much because you know...the prick is on the inside, as the joke goes. However I also understand that Alot of us are perfectionist and we can't tolerate any BS problems at all hence all the complaining. But the point is all cars have problems, I bought the BMW for BMW specialties, not Toyota specialties. GTFO if you want both because nothing is perfect.

But seriously guys wassup with the nonstop complaining. We complain about EVERYTHING!!! I am so tired of seeing threads like O I dunno if I want to buy a BMW because of the HPFP thing, its so rediculous on a 50K car blah blah blah. For crying out loud whats the big god damn deal about the stupid fucking HPFP. Mine went out at 10K, went into dealership in the morning got a loaner and free shitty coffee, went to work, the car is done and good to go when I got off. Like nothing happened. I mean they even extended the HPFP warranty to 100K, what more do you want? I swear if I see another fucking HPFP = bad BMW thread Imna track your IP address down and stab your right eye with a #2 pencil.

And all you guys crying about o its SOOOOO dangerous when HPFP fail when driving, accidents blah blah blah, hey look big baby, if you can't safely pull over when your car stops working suddendly you shouldn't be driving...with inflatable tires. If your car takes more than 2 seconds to crank over, something is wrong and you gotta take it to the shop. If you car takes like half an hour to start and you just keep driving that shit like nothing happened, I am sorry but you should enroll yourself into I AM A DUMBASS school of LEARN SOME COMMON SENSE. Even my mom who can't tell a dipstick apart from a steering wheel knew something is wrong with my car when it takes a while to crank over.

You want to know what is really fucking dangerous. Toyota's carpet that makes your acclereator pedal stuck, now that shit is fucking dangerous, and you know how they fix it after the recall?...Ziptie...yup fucking ziptie. Everyone thinks Toyota is like the top dog is reliability, and they actually have a dangerous problem but I see no end of world amount of threads over on their forum about o fuck toyota because of carpet. The camry also have the scratch inside window thing, and no1 seems to give a shit.

Some times I just sense this attitude comming from some people. Hey we get it, you think you paid 50K for a car and it should be perfect. You need to come check out my aunt's 80K+ Range Rover sport and the nightmare bullshit electrical problems it has. All these is not to mention that the amount of maintenance cost I saved over $50K miles is enough for me to purchase extended warrenty till 100K, well maybe I gotta pay alittle, but a major part is "paid for"...I really can't see what the big fucking buzz is.

[doggiedog]

I had my HPFP fail at 2500 miles and that wasn't the only problem.

My freaking radio wouldn't turn on! Even $10K Kias have radios that turn when you turn the car on. WTF is up with that? Now my radio is acting up again. This time it turns on but no sound comes out of it.

Come on....

[Chino Tom]

Our experience with this our 2nd BMW (335i) is that it is less reliable
than other cars we have owned. That doesn't mean we won't buy another.
IMHO the driving experience and performance of our 335i is second to
none (of any car I would buy). I am frustrated that a car company renowned
for their engineering can't come up with a solution to the HPFP. We are on
our fourth. BMW should be embarrassed. We love our car anyway. The lease
is up in a few months and we won't give up the driving experience, but will settle
for a little less performance (328).

[cgpublic]

The subject of reliability is highly subjective as each owner has a different standard. I do agree there is a general lack of perspective, or better yet, maturity, for many of the issues that all car owners, not only BMW owners, have to deal with from time to time. After all, a BMW is a highly complex machine manufactured by humans, and this is the internet.

The bottom line on the HPFP issue is simply this: After two years of awareness, why are 2009 models still plagued with this issue?

And to echo a previous point, other than a promise to replace it up to 100K, no one really knows for certain how the story will play out. If an owner needs to replace the pump every 15K miles once the engine nears 100K, it's going to make the present discourse seem like a garden party.

[lesha]

would be interesting to know the % of bmws with this HPFP issue

[I335]

Originally Posted by doggiedog

My freaking radio wouldn't turn on! Even $10K Kias have radios that turn when you turn the car on. WTF is up with that?

Come on....

Originally Posted by Socom

I understand where you're coming from and I do think BMW owners are one of the most likely to complain about "X", but the reality is that $50k is still a big chunk of $$ for a car, and when that car begins to have problems like that of a $15k car you have reason to be pissed off. It's frustrating when your led to believe believe that the price premium you pay is for marginally better performance and luxury.

You guys just don't get it. It's the $10K & $15K cars that are the reliable ones because they're simple and boring. They become less reliable the more sophisticated they are. And sure, perhaps the performance (although I'd say the performance of our 335s is significantly better than $10K or $15K cars - a Kia or a Hundai drives no where near as well as a 335) and luxury is only marginally better at the $50K mark, well that's because you're only paying marginally more - you're not shelling out $250K here like you would be for a Lambo so why should you expect it to perform like one? You guys make it sound like engineering a BMW is simple and trivial and the engineers aren't very good at what they do. Perhaps you guys should take a shot at designing a comfort access system or an active cruise control system or a 300hp motor that gets 30mpg on the highway and see how well you do...

[BayMoWe335]

I agree with you to a point, but the HPFP problem is a JOKE. Mine went out at 1500 miles...come on.

They have had since 2007 to fix it and refuse to do so.

All the other shit people complain about it minor in comparison.

[undecided]

I personally would not have a problem with the HPFP if it was something that occurred seldom enough, let's say 5% of the time which is a normal failure rate and if BMW had FIXED it after 4 f@cking years. I am sorry but there's only so much slack you can give. What if you, at your job had a problem with a customer of yours and you did not fix it for 4 years? Tell me if they would not be pissed at you.

[Castel]

This thread makes me think of the old and great Lamborghini Countach. How much was that, $250k? You couldn't see through the rearview mirror due to the inexistent rear window, it was freaking loud, hot inside, unreliable and people parallel parked with the door open cuz they couldn't see shit. No complaints though... @ $250k you already knew what you are getting into BUT accepted it since the car was awesome in other ways. People wouldn't say it sucks! how come a $5k Ford is able to park with the doors closed?

High performing/sophisticated cars are prone to have issues. It's part of the package and it's ok up to some point. ON the other hand what I find infuriating is that the company finds out about an issue, accepts it and does nothing for years. It's like it doesn't want to learn from it's mistakes or something. How many issues were part of the E46? Some of them are still a problem in the E9x, that's ridiculous to me.

Also, if you have had to change your HPFP with 1k miles in, then again @ 3k, and again and again I can understand why you feel the need to rant, just like the OP is doing with this thread. Squeaky brakes that SAs say it's normal, fine. I understand, design failure and whatever. BMW should invest a few $$$k and change the shape/material of the brake pad sensor and sell the new one instead of denying it. There, everyone happy. It's a forum on the net, people feel the issue sucks and share it and it actually does.

[doggiedog]

Originally Posted by I335

You guys just don't get it. It's the $10K & $15K cars that are the reliable ones because they're simple and boring. They become less reliable the more sophisticated they are. And sure, perhaps the performance (although I'd say the performance of our 335s is significantly better than $10K or $15K cars - a Kia or a Hundai drives no where near as well as a 335) and luxury is only marginally better at the $50K mark, well that's because you're only paying marginally more - you're not shelling out $250K here like you would be for a Lambo so why should you expect it to perform like one? You guys make it sound like engineering a BMW is simple and trivial and the engineers aren't very good at what they do. Perhaps you guys should take a shot at designing a comfort access system or an active cruise control system or a 300hp motor that gets 30mpg on the highway and see how well you do...

I don't get what you are trying to say. What is so exciting and fun about a radio? How much is it to ask that a radio work? How difficult is it to create a radio that works properly? Is the Logic 7 that sophisticated a radio and an engineering marvel that it's acceptable to have it not work all of the time?