[fernande-bmw]

I have been reading all the posts about the iPod integration, but I haven't found a specific answer to my questions.

I am getting a 2010 335i sedan with the 6FL option (iPod/USB integration) without iDrive. So, I will just control the iPod with the radio buttons.

First, I am trying to find the list of compatible devices with this option, where compatible means the ability to sync _and_ charge the device. I am specifically interested in compatibility with the following iPod models:

• iPod video 5.5 gen
• iPod touch 3rd gen

Second, is there a place where I can get the manual for the 6FL option? I want to know about the level of control provided, e.g., playlists, search, shuffle, skip, play, etc.

Finally, I read recently that the audio from the provided Y cable is horrible even though it is coming from the iPod's line out. Can anyone confirm that? If that's the case, what's the value of this option and what alternative is there to get the best quality audio from the iPod?

Thanks!

[fernande-bmw]

bump

[Technic]

You could always go back to your dealer and ask your salesperson for a 6FL cable and just test your iPods in a car in the lot. Actually, your salesperson should have answered all those questions right there when you ordered the car, as this is simple stuff: get a 6FL cable from the parts department and just get a car with 6FL and let you work it out. You do not even need the keyfob to listen to the music in a non-iDrive car.

This is much better than what you are asking.

[kgb1637]

My Mom's iPod with video, no idea what gen it is, works with her non-idrive right through the radio screen. Its a little bit more tedious than mine on the idrive but effective nonetheless. I have never had a problem with the 6FL cable in my car. It works great.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

You could always go back to your dealer and ask your salesperson for a 6FL cable and just test your iPods in a car in the lot. Actually, your salesperson should have answered all those questions right there when you ordered the car, as this is simple stuff: get a 6FL cable from the parts department and just get a car with 6FL and let you work it out. You do not even need the keyfob to listen to the music in a non-iDrive car.

This is much better than what you are asking.

Well, that would be nice if I had the iPod with me for testing, but I don't.

I want to buy a new iPod to use with the car, but I want to make sure that either one of the models I mentioned are compatible with the 6FL option.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by kgb1637

My Mom's iPod with video, no idea what gen it is, works with her non-idrive right through the radio screen. Its a little bit more tedious than mine on the idrive but effective nonetheless. I have never had a problem with the 6FL cable in my car. It works great.

Good to know. Thanks for the response.

[topcat87]

works. u will need bmw's y cable though

[topcat87]

the audio quality was horrible because the track that was playing was a protected drm file and thus is played through aux.
otherwise all the mp3 are streamed through the usb and the sound is excellent

[Technic]

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

Well, that would be nice if I had the iPod with me for testing, but I don't.

I want to buy a new iPod to use with the car, but I want to make sure that either one of the models I mentioned are compatible with the 6FL option.

I was referring more towards the sound quality concerns that you have than compatibility with older models, as you can easily find that information at www.iPodyourBMW.com...

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

I was referring more towards the sound quality concerns that you have than compatibility with older models, as you can easily find that information at www.iPodyourBMW.com...

I have seen that link before, but the years listed stops at 2007. Is it correct to assume that the factory installed 6FL option has not changed since 2007?

Also, the list mentions the following devices as compatible:

• Apple® Devices
• iPods Generation 4 or higher
• iPod nano
• iPod mini

However, I see many posts in the forums from people complaining about issues with syncing or charging many devices. So, I just wanted to know from personal experience if the iPod video 5.5 gen or iPod touch 3rd gen worked well with the latest incarnation of the 6FL option.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by topcat87

the audio quality was horrible because the track that was playing was a protected drm file and thus is played through aux.
otherwise all the mp3 are streamed through the usb and the sound is excellent

This is interesting.

I thought that if you used an iPod with the Y cable, then everything was decoded by the iPod and sent to the AUX port, and the USB was used only for sync and charge operations.

However, if you had a USB stick (or used the iPod as a USB drive), then the BMW audio system would be in charge of decoding the files.

Are you saying that only AAC (protected or unprotected) files are decoded by the iPod and sent to the AUX port? Whereas all other formats (or just MP3?) are sent unmodified from the iPod via the USB port to be decoded by the BMW audio system?

If any case, I haven't been able to confirm if the BMW audio system does a better job at decoding the files than the iPod, or if it depends on the iPod model.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

I have seen that link before, but the years listed stops at 2007. Is it correct to assume that the factory installed 6FL option has not changed since 2007?


Also, the list mentions the following devices as compatible:

• Apple® Devices
• iPods Generation 4 or higher
• iPod nano
• iPod mini

However, I see many posts in the forums from people complaining about issues with syncing or charging many devices. So, I just wanted to know from personal experience if the iPod video 5.5 gen or iPod touch 3rd gen worked well with the latest incarnation of the 6FL option.

No changes... any iPod device -including the iPhone- from 2004-on should work with the 6FL.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

No changes... any iPod device -including the iPhone- from 2004-on should work with the 6FL.

Good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

Then the only remaining question is about the audio quality, as posted above.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

Good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

Then the only remaining question is about the audio quality, as posted above.

iPod audio quality with the 6FL depends msotly on the iPod version (there was a change in the D/A converter) and on the compression quality and even burning software used for the songs (128kps vs 320kps for example).

Like I said before, the best judge is you. Personally, my iPod sounds great thru the 6FL option using 320kps VBR MP3.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

iPod audio quality with the 6FL depends msotly on the iPod version (there was a change in the D/A converter) and on the compression quality and even burning software used for the songs (128kps vs 320kps for example).

Like I said before, the best judge is you. Personally, my iPod sounds great thru the 6FL option using 320kps VBR MP3.

I am aware of the D/A converter issue among all the different iPod models. That's why I am narrowing my choice between the two models I listed.

I am also aware of the fact that garbage recording = garbage playout regardless of how you connect it.

I am more curious/concerned about the dual behavior between AAC and MP3 files where some may be decoded by the iPod and others by the BMW audio system.

If the files decoded by the BMW audio system sound "better" than the ones decoded by the iPod, then that means that the BMW audio system is adding some digital filters and enhancements after decoding the MP3 files that are not applied to the analog signal coming through the AUX port with the decoded MP3 from the iPod.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

I am aware of the D/A converter issue among all the different iPod models. That's why I am narrowing my choice between the two models I listed.

I am also aware of the fact that garbage recording = garbage playout regardless of how you connect it.

I am more curious/concerned about the dual behavior between AAC and MP3 files where some may be decoded by the iPod and others by the BMW audio system.

If the files decoded by the BMW audio system sound "better" than the ones decoded by the iPod, then that means that the BMW audio system is adding some digital filters and enhancements after decoding the MP3 files that are not applied to the analog signal coming through the AUX port with the decoded MP3 from the iPod.

When you use the 6FL cable to play your iPod you in fact are using the AUX input of the car with the low level analog output of the iPod. That goes thru an A/D and then perhaps a D/A in the OEM HU depending of what OEM system your car is equipped: a D/A conversion into high level outputs in the case of the MY2010 3-Series Stereo system (standard system), or continue being digital all the way to the OEM amp inputs in the case of the Logic7 or Individual Audio (optional). Then that OEM amp will apply the DSP processing based on which system it is and the D/A conversion will be made into high level, processed outputs.

No HiFi system will be available for the MY2010 3-Series.

If you use the iPod USB cable then the output is digital straight to the OEM HU and then it follows the D/A conversion as stated above. No DRM songs will play thru this cable.

With all that said, the sound quality that you are concerned about also depends on what kind of OEM system your car has. Like I said before and for the last time, the only way for you to find out is to test it yourself in the particular system that you will have.

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

With all that said, the sound quality that you are concerned about also depends on what kind of OEM system your car has. Like I said before and for the last time, the only way for you to find out is to test it yourself in the particular system that you will have.

I forgot to mention before that the car will come equipped with option 677 Logic7 sound system with Surround Sound and Digital Sound.

I am not interested in subjective audiophile assessments of the quality of the sound.

Like I said before, I don't have an iPod to test this. I am trying to decide which one to buy.

I just want to understand the facts about the processing of the analog/digital signal from the iPod based on the type of connection made with the audio system.

Originally Posted by Technic

When you use the 6FL cable to play your iPod you in fact are using the AUX input of the car with the low level analog output of the iPod. That goes thru an A/D and then perhaps a D/A in the OEM HU depending of what OEM system your car is equipped: a D/A conversion into high level outputs in the case of the MY2010 3-Series Stereo system (standard system), or continue being digital all the way to the OEM amp inputs in the case of the Logic7 or Individual Audio (optional). Then that OEM amp will apply the DSP processing based on which system it is and the D/A conversion will be made into high level, processed outputs.

So, if I understood the explanation properly, if the Y cable is used, then all songs from the iPod go to the AUX port through the line out pin as a low-level analog signal. Nothing will go through the USB port.

Originally Posted by Technic

If you use the iPod USB cable then the output is digital straight to the OEM HU and then it follows the D/A conversion as stated above. No DRM songs will play thru this cable.

I know that DRM songs will not play through anything but iTunes and the iPod.

Will the non-protected AAC, WAV, FLAC, Apple LossLess, etc. files play as well? Or just MP3 files?

More importantly, where the hell is all this information documented? Did you just find this out from personal experience?

It would be nice if there was a manual or FAQ for the 6FL option. I don't want to be a pest, but I have searched all over the place and did not find anything. So, I have to rely on this forum for the details.

Thanks!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

More importantly, where the hell is all this information documented? Did you just find this out from personal experience?

All the information that you need is here after you pay: www.BMWTIS.com

[fernande-bmw]

Originally Posted by Technic

All the information that you need is here after you pay: www.BMWTIS.com

Thanks for the link.

For people interested in this subject, after some digging, I was able to find the Service Information Bulletin for the USB Audio Interface here.

[fernande-bmw]

Additional USB product information including tested MP3 players, USB devices and mobile phones for new vehicles (as of date of manufacture March 2009 and later) can be found in the attached document.

[fernande-bmw]

I still haven't been able to find details about the internal workings of the analog/digital processing of the Logic 7 system with the USB or AUX ports.

If someone has any service information bulletins or additional documents, please feel free to share them here.

Thanks!