Latest Car & Driver

jcrwu · 10-12-2009, 02:17 AM

I did a quick search and didn't see anyone post this yet but I just got my Nov Car & Driver and they did an S4 vs. 335i comparison test. I guess the S4 is closer to the 335i and the RS4 is close to the M3. The new S4 beat the 335i (they have a long explanation why they didn't use the 335xi) and I was surprised to learn that Audi actually dropped the '10 S4 base price $4360 compared to the '08 base price. They ranked the S4 "better" in handling, brake feel, transmission, exterior and interior styling (subjective, of course) and a few other categories. It's an interesting article and it makes me excited to see what the new 3-series will bring to recapture the sports sedan thrown. I hope this added pressure from Audi gets BMW refocused on driving dynamics like LSD, non-RFTs, etc.

blue2fire · 10-12-2009, 02:34 AM

Where have you been?

MuchMoore · 10-12-2009, 02:54 AM

Same thing happened with the TTS-135i comparison in Road&Track. I find it interesting they are comparing "S" models to standard line cars from BMW.

whn · 10-12-2009, 04:07 AM

I would also choose TTS over the 135i

ArmyBimmerDude · 10-12-2009, 07:13 AM

So you're saying that the newest Audi beat a BMW that was released three years ago? I can't believe it...

ArmyBimmerDude · 10-12-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrwu

I did a quick search and didn't see anyone post this yet but I just got my Nov Car & Driver and they did an S4 vs. 335i comparison test. I guess the S4 is closer to the 335i and the RS4 is close to the M3. The new S4 beat the 335i (they have a long explanation why they didn't use the 335xi) and I was surprised to learn that Audi actually dropped the '10 S4 base price $4360 compared to the '08 base price. They ranked the S4 "better" in handling, brake feel, transmission, exterior and interior styling (subjective, of course) and a few other categories. It's an interesting article and it makes me excited to see what the new 3-series will bring to recapture the sports sedan thrown. I hope this added pressure from Audi gets BMW refocused on driving dynamics like LSD, non-RFTs, etc.

Curious...when was the last time a non-M BMW has a LSD from the factory?

jmsent · 10-12-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrwu

I did a quick search and didn't see anyone post this yet but I just got my Nov Car & Driver and they did an S4 vs. 335i comparison test. I guess the S4 is closer to the 335i and the RS4 is close to the M3. The new S4 beat the 335i (they have a long explanation why they didn't use the 335xi) and I was surprised to learn that Audi actually dropped the '10 S4 base price $4360 compared to the '08 base price. They ranked the S4 "better" in handling, brake feel, transmission, exterior and interior styling (subjective, of course) and a few other categories. It's an interesting article and it makes me excited to see what the new 3-series will bring to recapture the sports sedan thrown. I hope this added pressure from Audi gets BMW refocused on driving dynamics like LSD, non-RFTs, etc.

Don't get too excited. It's a car magazine and they're always looking for ways to stir the pot. I remember that one of the main rags gave the Lexus IS300 the nod over the 330i back in 01. The S4 is now pushing 2 tons, is still strongly weight biased to the front, and the interior has been de-contented to meet the lower price point. It has no maintenance plan included, and some desirable options are really expensive. I have no doubt it's a nice car, but the "win" is hardly a slam dunk. After previous experiences with Audi reliability and service costs, I'd still never own one.

jmsent · 10-12-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Curious...when was the last time a non-M BMW has a LSD from the factory?

For the 3 series, it may have been the E30. My 87 325is had LSD.

gonzo · 10-12-2009, 07:27 AM

Maybe cure some repetitiveness

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306651

BMWinNorthdakota · 10-12-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

So you're saying that the newest Audi beat a BMW that was released three years ago? I can't believe it...

+1!!

Saintor · 10-12-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whn

I would also choose TTS over the 135i

I'd possibly do..... The TTS is 15000$C more than a 135!!!!

In reference to the 335i, they mention " Drives like a sports car in large box".

The comment about the S4 "interior plainness" surprised me.

LeifW · 10-12-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Curious...when was the last time a non-M BMW has a LSD from the factory?

My 1995 318ti Club Sport had a limited slip. It was an option.

Leif W.

stressdoc · 10-12-2009, 09:00 AM

We have discussed most of this on a previous thread. Bottom line, IMO, is BMW needs to put some beef into BMW Performance and also start offering supersport/tii versions of the 1 and 3 series to carry over until 2012 when the the new lightweight efficient dynamics models begin to be released.

Turbomatic · 10-12-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmsent

For the 3 series, it may have been the E30. My 87 325is had LSD.

E36 as well if you order it. Also came with the winter package on some models.

Craig@SupremePower · 10-12-2009, 11:01 AM

bah..

g2artist · 10-12-2009, 01:09 PM

I myself just checked out a loaded S5 coupe

. Sweet car, definitely would have gotten that before my 335i if I would have looked around more.

dmz · 10-12-2009, 01:21 PM

'95 was the last year you could order a LSD on a non M car. It was part of the winter package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Curious...when was the last time a non-M BMW has a LSD from the factory?

visor · 10-12-2009, 02:50 PM

The S4 is like 4000lbs! No amount of electronic or mechanical AWD gizmos are going to compensate for the excess weight in handling and feel.

Nikolas · 10-12-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by visor

The S4 is like 4000lbs! No amount of electronic or mechanical AWD gizmos are going to compensate for the excess weight in handling and feel.

The manual 6 speed is only 27 lbs over the 335xi. The 7 speed dual clutch unit is heavy placing it close to 4000 lbs.

Either way obviously the electronic and mechanical AWD gizmos are doing something to compensate or we wouldn't be discussing this thread - would we?

stressdoc · 10-12-2009, 05:02 PM

4,000 lbs. is two freaking tons any way you weigh it. S5/S4 ain't no Cayman, that's for sure.

SLCGoonski · 10-12-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrwu

...recapture the sports sedan thrown.

I thought this was funny...

Ti335 · 10-12-2009, 05:12 PM

A supercharged V6? Is Audi sharing technology with Pontiac these days? Personally, I'd take a TT I6 over a supercharged V6 any day. As for Audi getting marginally higher numbers in a magazine comparison, that means absolutely nothing. People buy these cars because of they look and how they feel during a test drive - not because one has a .01g advantage on the skidpad over the other.

10-12-2009, 02:17 AM	#1
jcrwu Private 1 Rep 88 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (5)	Latest Car & Driver - S4 beat 335i I did a quick search and didn't see anyone post this yet but I just got my Nov Car & Driver and they did an S4 vs. 335i comparison test. I guess the S4 is closer to the 335i and the RS4 is close to the M3. The new S4 beat the 335i (they have a long explanation why they didn't use the 335xi) and I was surprised to learn that Audi actually dropped the '10 S4 base price $4360 compared to the '08 base price. They ranked the S4 "better" in handling, brake feel, transmission, exterior and interior styling (subjective, of course) and a few other categories. It's an interesting article and it makes me excited to see what the new 3-series will bring to recapture the sports sedan thrown. I hope this added pressure from Audi gets BMW refocused on driving dynamics like LSD, non-RFTs, etc.
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10-12-2009, 02:54 AM	#3
MuchMoore Colonel 82 Rep 2,325 Posts Drives: 08 E90 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: CenFla iTrader: (28)	Same thing happened with the TTS-135i comparison in Road&Track. I find it interesting they are comparing "S" models to standard line cars from BMW. __________________ \| Andrew \| M Technik \| BMW Performance \| BBS \| Forge \| V1 \| LUX \| Bilstein \| Precision-Sport \|
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10-12-2009, 04:07 AM	#4
whn Captain 88 Rep 783 Posts Drives: Range Rover Sport Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Finland iTrader: (3)	I would also choose TTS over the 135i __________________ MY12 Range Rover Sport Autobiography Mods: Coming E92 335i SOLD! Mods: Stage 3+, FULLY LOADED
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10-12-2009, 07:13 AM	#5
ArmyBimmerDude Major General 152 Rep 5,501 Posts Drives: Lola Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (3) Garage List 02/2007 E92 335i [0.00]	So you're saying that the newest Audi beat a BMW that was released three years ago? I can't believe it... __________________ 2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
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10-12-2009, 07:27 AM	#9
gonzo Lieutenant General 10204 Rep 14,398 Posts Drives: as many as possible Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: TeXXXas iTrader: (0)	Maybe cure some repetitiveness http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306651 __________________ Crazy Diamond
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10-12-2009, 09:00 AM	#13
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	We have discussed most of this on a previous thread. Bottom line, IMO, is BMW needs to put some beef into BMW Performance and also start offering supersport/tii versions of the 1 and 3 series to carry over until 2012 when the the new lightweight efficient dynamics models begin to be released. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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10-12-2009, 11:01 AM	#15
Craig@SupremePower G.O.A.T.! 1001 Rep 74,998 Posts Drives: '18 GMC Yukon XL Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (14)	bah..
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10-12-2009, 01:09 PM	#16
g2artist Second Lieutenant 27 Rep 247 Posts Drives: E93 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ventura, Ca iTrader: (0)	I myself just checked out a loaded S5 coupe. Sweet car, definitely would have gotten that before my 335i if I would have looked around more.
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10-12-2009, 02:50 PM	#18
visor BMW, can I have some LSD please? 88 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	The S4 is like 4000lbs! No amount of electronic or mechanical AWD gizmos are going to compensate for the excess weight in handling and feel. __________________ 2006 330i \| TiAg \| Black \| Al \| 6MT \| Sports Package \| Logic 7 retired 2008 335i \| AW \| Black \| Al \| 6MT \| Sports Package \| Logic 7 retired 2013 328xi \| Red \| Gray \| Al \| 8AT \| Sports Line \| Premium \| Executive \| Heat Pkg retired 2017 340i xDrive \| Estoril \| Black \| Al \| 8AT \| M Package
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10-12-2009, 05:02 PM	#20
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	4,000 lbs. is two freaking tons any way you weigh it. S5/S4 ain't no Cayman, that's for sure. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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10-12-2009, 05:12 PM	#22
Ti335 Lieutenant 35 Rep 427 Posts Drives: E90 335i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	A supercharged V6? Is Audi sharing technology with Pontiac these days? Personally, I'd take a TT I6 over a supercharged V6 any day. As for Audi getting marginally higher numbers in a magazine comparison, that means absolutely nothing. People buy these cars because of they look and how they feel during a test drive - not because one has a .01g advantage on the skidpad over the other.
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