BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-12-2009, 10:32 PM   #1
ace996
NASA/PDA Instructor
ace996's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: E92M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

Roll-Call: NJMP 6/20-21 with Nasa/PDA??

Was asked to instruct for NASA/PDA next Saturday at NJMP, anyone going?
I'll be there in the Grey M3 coupe...Black group.

Be good,
TomK
__________________

"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!!
Appreciate 0
      06-13-2009, 01:12 AM   #2
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I'll be there. Jerez coupe with silver TE37s.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-14-2009, 10:52 AM   #3
tallycoolies
Private First Class
tallycoolies's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: 08 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (2)

Will be there for both Sat and Sun. Interlagos Blue with either black Te 37s if it rain, or silver VMR if sunny which I hope it is~ See ya all there~!
__________________

E92 M3 Coupe\Interlagos Blue\6MT\18"\Technology PK\Premium Sound\Moon Roof\H&R Sport Springs\UUC SSK\GP Thunder 8500K H8 & 12000K HID Xenon\MB Grill\VSR Ti Exhaust\AA X-pipe\AA ECU\AA pulley\VSR CF rear diffuser\VSR CF boot lid\Painted Reflector\Gruppe M CAI\VSR Frontlip\Volk TE-37 19'
Appreciate 0
      06-14-2009, 08:07 PM   #4
4u3
Private First Class
18
Rep
105
Posts

Drives: 09 E92
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pasadena MD

iTrader: (0)

I will be there with Track Daze, E92 Silverstone OMG M3 plate. See you there.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 06:02 AM   #5
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Where's Monsta???
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 08:11 AM   #6
monsta
Brigadier General
monsta's Avatar
United_States
217
Rep
3,593
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen County, NJ/Y.O, NY

iTrader: (2)

right here! no can do...will be flying out to FL this Saturday gotta drive back w/ my fiancee, dying to make it out to a track day just too busy right now
__________________

'08 E92 M3 6MT | IB | FR | RAC RG63's | VRS Ti Exhaust | Fabspeed HFC & Xpipe
'09 X5 35d SG/SB
'11 X3 28i AW/CN/FW (wife's car
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 08:35 AM   #7
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

At this rate, you'll be 70 by the time you make it to the track!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 08:52 AM   #8
Radiation Joe
Veni Vidi Vici
Radiation Joe's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
2,750
Posts

Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 e90 M3-Sold  [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold  [0.00]
2009 e90 M3 - Gone  [0.00]
2003 M3 SOLD  [0.00]
old 2002  [10.00]
Just signed up for Sunday. New track, so I signed up for HPDE-3. I'll see ya'll there.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 09:02 AM   #9
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

They seem to have bundeled HPDE 3&4 together, so it doesn't really matter which one you sign up for I guess. 20 minute sessions. Doesn't really allow for a proper warm-up.

Schedule here:
http://www.nasanortheast.com/documen...ng-june-09.pdf

I've never been on this track either.

Ace666, have you driven it? If so, what's the suggested line through the last turn before the straight? Kind of like the toe of the boot at the Glen--single late apex?

RJ, what wheels/tires will you be running?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 09:34 AM   #10
Radiation Joe
Veni Vidi Vici
Radiation Joe's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
2,750
Posts

Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 e90 M3-Sold  [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold  [0.00]
2009 e90 M3 - Gone  [0.00]
2003 M3 SOLD  [0.00]
old 2002  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
They seem to have bundeled HPDE 3&4 together, so it doesn't really matter which one you sign up for I guess. 20 minute sessions. Doesn't really allow for a proper warm-up.

Schedule here:
http://www.nasanortheast.com/documen...ng-june-09.pdf

I've never been on this track either.

Ace666, have you driven it? If so, what's the suggested line through the last turn before the straight? Kind of like the toe of the boot at the Glen--single late apex?

RJ, what wheels/tires will you be running?
That 180 degree turn looks to me to be more like turn two at Thunderhill, a long 180 degree turn where you play with the throttle to get the line right. A single late apex would probably work, but the race line would definitely be a double or just hug the id all the way around.

I'll be on street tires again, but I'll bring one of the refinished REs so you can see the anthracite color. It'll look good in the sun. I'll mount a set of PSCs on the refinished wheels after I get the rears back in about three weeks.

I'd appreciate a slow lead/follow first session on Sunday to learn the basic line if you don't mind.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 09:45 AM   #11
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Cool. Sure, I can share what I've learned about the line with you on Sunday in the morning. I'll try to get Ace996 to ride along with me on Sat, and pick up some tips.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 11:57 AM   #12
kieranlavin
New Member
0
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: other
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: other

iTrader: (0)

I'll be there instructing. Just riding down with my friend in his truck. I'll probably ride with him first session to see the track and maybe take his car out for one or two sessions at some point throughout the weekend. There are a few people I know who might be there and I'm going to try to borrow their cars
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 02:55 PM   #13
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Good to hear you'll show up Kieran. See you there...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 07:58 PM   #14
ace996
NASA/PDA Instructor
ace996's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: E92M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I've never been on this track either.

Ace666, have you driven it? If so, what's the suggested line through the last turn before the straight? Kind of like the toe of the boot at the Glen--single late apex?

?
No...haven't been there yet but pouring over the vids on Vimeo and Youtube. In the morning, there'll be an instructor session where we'll review "the school line"...we'll see.

Regarding the last turn...
Kyle's line, although I suspect our's may be different....

Lunatic used to run a race-prepped Evo...56s at LRP!!
__________________

"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!!
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2009, 08:33 PM   #15
ace996
NASA/PDA Instructor
ace996's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: E92M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

Write-up from a PCA instructor from Rennlist....

Last weekend we had a lot of discussion about what to call the various turns on the NJMP Lightning circuit, or even how many turns there are. The NJMP web site says it's 1.9 miles and 10 turns. My G2X data logger uses GPS and says it is 1.86 miles and 7 turns. The length of the track makes sense as my line around the track does not follow the edge of the pavement, but where do they find 10 turns? Also, with the exception of the big, banked Lightbulb turn there are no track-supplied diagrams that show the turn numbers. We counted 8 turns from memory, but my G2X looks at lateral Gs to determine map segments, and that translates into just 7 turns.

Let me hasten to add that however you count the turns, the track is wonderfully challenging, much more so than the track dagram alone would suggest. The elevation changes make this track work, and who wold expect that in sandy, level NJ? This track may be more fun than the Thunderbolt circuit, and who expected that!

So, here is a first crack at a turn-by-turn description that you can consider as you watch in-car video. (Mine coming later today, perhaps). Please add and correct as you gain experience. The data is from a lap that Payton Wilson ran in my car on Nitto NT-01s (not as sticky as Hoosiers). The lateral G numbers are the maximum for the turn and the two MPH numbers are speed at turn entry/exit. His time for the lap was 1:17.50 After he helped me, I ran a 1:19.87, and lots of 1:20s. He helped me a lot!

T1--turn in from far left and roll your right wheels over the low turtles. This is the only turn where you really should use the turtles. Turn in and apex (turtles) are visible, but track out is over the rise and is not visible until you reach the apex. The track seem to come back to you at track out, but that's an illusion. Go ahead and track out. 1.4Gs 68.65/72.64 MPH

T2--turn in is far left, but early so that you cheat across the turn to the middle of the track, making the T2/T3 curve into a double apex. 1.2Gs 75.27/72.42 MPH

T3--brake on turn in and align your car with the right side of the track. This is similar to coming out of the carousel at Summit Point where you want to be far right to set up for the the next turn. 1.2Gs 66.95/69.01 MPH

T4--the car is at low speed, so the turn in is sharp and on the gas hard to drive to T5 0.9Gs 60.51/74.11 MPH

T5--this is the hardest turn on the track--turn in is slow and quick but the apex is over the rise and not visible unless there is a cone there that you might see the top of. There is a lot of track on the other side of the rise for track out. Consider straightening your steering wheel as the car gets light over the rise and then dialing back in some turn to track out all the way. 1.1Gs 63.64/86.52 MPH

T6--the classic 90° turn. 1.2Gs 57.54/70.99 MPH

T7--Lightbulb. 15° banking. Long. Entry about mid-way left to right and then drop down to the apex about 3/4 of the way around. 1.3Gs 72.17/99.75 MPH

Note also that with the exception of the 1-2 straight, the straights are not wholly straight. The 5-6 straight with the bridge about over where it straightens out may not be a novic passing zone in DEs. The 6-7 straight bends, and there is a rise so that the kink is not visible until you are one it. The 7-1 straight isn't as straight as you'd think it should be at first. As you come onto it on the far right side there is also a seam in the pavement that NJMP is working to smooth. As it was last weekend it is either a bump if you drive T7 properly to be unloaded there or it tosses you to the left a bit if you are still loaded.
Attached Images

__________________
Chris
__________________

"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!!
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2009, 06:35 AM   #16
monsta
Brigadier General
monsta's Avatar
United_States
217
Rep
3,593
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen County, NJ/Y.O, NY

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
At this rate, you'll be 70 by the time you make it to the track!
__________________

'08 E92 M3 6MT | IB | FR | RAC RG63's | VRS Ti Exhaust | Fabspeed HFC & Xpipe
'09 X5 35d SG/SB
'11 X3 28i AW/CN/FW (wife's car
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2009, 06:55 AM   #17
kieranlavin
New Member
0
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: other
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: other

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
In the morning, there'll be an instructor session where we'll review "the school line"...we'll see.
Should be interesting. I don't think a lot of the instructors showing up have been to Lightning before. Last year PDA did it on a weekday and that, coupled with it being in bumblef*ck, not many went. I remember the first time at Thunderbolt last year where we had many a "spirited" conversation about which way to take which turns. The next time we went in November was much better.

Lucid, I'll have to look out for you. I'll be riding down with my friend in his truck so look out for a maroon NX2000. The car is frighteningly fast especially with him driving. I don't like to push his car as hard since it's not mine
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2009, 07:10 AM   #18
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
No...haven't been there yet but pouring over the vids on Vimeo and Youtube. In the morning, there'll be an instructor session where we'll review "the school line"...we'll see.

Regarding the last turn...
Kyle's line, although I suspect our's may be different....

Lunatic used to run a race-prepped Evo...56s at LRP!!
Nice. As far as I can tell he is doing a double apex in T7--he is pretty close to hugging it. I picked that up from who rode along with me (drove a 911 4S I think) at LRP @turn 1. I then got yelled at by the guy who checked me off at the most recent BMW event there for doing that because I wasn't using the width, etc. I think it worked at LRP. It might work here as well although this one leads to a straight. Anyway, thanks for the info. Sounds like we all have a lot to learn about this track.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 10:04 AM   #19
tallycoolies
Private First Class
tallycoolies's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: 08 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PA

iTrader: (2)

Looks like it's gonna be a wet day..... hopefully just cloudy but forecast says T showers with 60% of rain.. really hope they're wrong like they always are.. lol..
__________________

E92 M3 Coupe\Interlagos Blue\6MT\18"\Technology PK\Premium Sound\Moon Roof\H&R Sport Springs\UUC SSK\GP Thunder 8500K H8 & 12000K HID Xenon\MB Grill\VSR Ti Exhaust\AA X-pipe\AA ECU\AA pulley\VSR CF rear diffuser\VSR CF boot lid\Painted Reflector\Gruppe M CAI\VSR Frontlip\Volk TE-37 19'
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 07:11 PM   #20
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Running really late. I might not be there until Sat afternoon. Trailer issues...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 09:24 PM   #21
ace996
NASA/PDA Instructor
ace996's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
284
Posts

Drives: E92M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Running really late. I might not be there until Sat afternoon. Trailer issues...
I re-sprained my MCL in my left knee at physical therapy last night...iced it all morning and two Aleves and minimal reduction in pain....no way I can drive tomorrow...
No way my wife is driving me 3hours to the track tomorrow morning.

Sorry, man, we'll meet up another day.

Be safe and have fun,
TomK
__________________

"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2009, 01:22 AM   #22
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
I re-sprained my MCL in my left knee at physical therapy last night...iced it all morning and two Aleves and minimal reduction in pain....no way I can drive tomorrow...
No way my wife is driving me 3hours to the track tomorrow morning.

Sorry, man, we'll meet up another day.

Be safe and have fun,
TomK
Too bad. Get better man...

I just got back home after an 8 hour drive (towing my car). The weekend was interesting. Lots of rain. Went back and forth between slicks and PS2s. I finally felt like I drove this track reasonably fast in the last session today (too bad you didn't hang around for that one RJ--wide open track with a few fast cars on it). I spun out in the morning like an idiot on cold slicks on slimy pavement (it was kind of drizzling). Anyway, I mounted the camera during the last session and captured some stuff. I'll post soon. Single vs. double apex the bowl debate will last a long time for this track. I've tried both. I think I have some of each on the video. We'll see...

It was great to hang out with some of the forum members--especially when they bring/give you lunch!
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST