[michaelalex17]

I realize there is probably no clear answer to this question, but wanted to start a discussion around the value of vehicles with desirable specifications from factory compared to the value of vehicles that have been converted to desirable specifications.

For example if a vehicle has Xenon lights and M sport bumpers and single hump from factory sells for x price how much less valuable on a percentage basis would an identical vehicle sell for if the owner added and converted to those same more desirable parts?

Again, I realize there is likely no clear answer to this, but am curious to hear peoples thoughts.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Right now in 2021: build is probably cheaper than buy, especially if you have coding know-how. If you've got the tools and time, it'll be cheaper. It technically always has been that way, but there's never been a time where the margins between build and buy are so great.

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Right now in 2021: build is probably cheaper than buy, especially if you have coding know-how.

Sorry maybe my question wasn't clear. I realize that building is cheaper than buying. I'm more wondering about the value of converted vehicles. Basically modified vehicles but modified with OEM factory options to make them more desirable than they would otherwise be. For example I have a manual E91 and it had idrive. I did a single hump conversion on the vehicle. In theory that should make it more valuable because single hump cars command a premium. But my VIN will say the car is an idrive car. So I'm trying to understand value differences for similar cars when one is converted and the other is equipped that way from the factory.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

That is a fantastic question and one that could strike a great discussion.

In my opinion, mods that could've been ordered from the factory are more valuable than aftermarket parts. Why that is I'm unsure; but if it came from the manufacturer, you're more likely to get your money's worth out of it.

For example, MHD gives you a ton of amazing options and adds a healthy HP/Torque boost. But if you have the BMW Performance Tune, which has less of a performance boost but comes with a little badge and is backed by BMW factory testing, it may be considered more desirable.

There's an appeal about authenticity, regardless of its practicality. Some of it is justified, some of it isn't. For example, a BMW factory underseat fire extinguisher probably isn't worth it to a lot of people. But, many other factory or manufacturer upgrades have a certain quality standard to them. Whether it's fitment, performance, reliability, or otherwise, there's something "BMW-esque" that's expected. With aftermarket, you're never really sure. You can toss together many aftermarket parts and create a totally different feeling vehicle, maybe something that doesn't really feel like a BMW. If it's all stuff from BMW, you're certain it'll feel like a BMW when you drive it.

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

That is a fantastic question and one that could strike a great discussion.

In my opinion, mods that could've been ordered from the factory are more valuable than aftermarket parts. Why that is I'm unsure; but if it came from the manufacturer, you're more likely to get your money's worth out of it.

For example, MHD gives you a ton of amazing options and adds a healthy HP/Torque boost. But if you have the BMW Performance Tune, which has less of a performance boost but comes with a little badge, it may be considered more desirable.

That's exactly what I'm thinking so here's a below made up example

Car 1: 50k miles clean car fax up to date maintenance etc. has wood trim, no m sport, idrive, no xenon's

Worth 5k

Car 2: same mileage and condition as car 1 but owner changed wood trim to aluminum, added OEM m sport bumpers, did a single hump conversion, and added OEM Xenon lights

Worth 10k

Car 3: same mileage and condition as car 1 but from factory came with aluminum trim. M sport, no idrive and Xenon lights

Worth 15k

These prices are completely made up but trying to illustrate the point that car 2 is worth more than it was in a non desirable spec but still less than car 3 that came with the desirable spec from the factory. I feel like this concept makes sense in theory but would love to get other peoples thoughts on how car 2 value wise stacks up against car 1 vs 3

[Hoody007]

Personally I wouldn’t consider one which wasn’t optioned a certain way (at least the sport package, adaptive xenons, heated seats and iDrive). As a used buyer, if I saw one retrofitted with those options, the value would depend on how well it was done, and if OEM parts were used (i.e. an M Sport conversion with eBay bumpers & fog lights is a no go).

But that’s me. I’m pretty anal-retentive...

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by Hoody007

Personally I wouldn't consider one which wasn't optioned a certain way (at least the sport package, adaptive xenons, heated seats and iDrive). As a used buyer, if I saw one retrofitted with those options, the value would depend on how well it was done, and if OEM parts were used (i.e. an M Sport conversion with eBay bumpers & fog lights is a no go).

But that's me. I'm pretty anal-retentive...

Thanks for the feedback. Am talking about all OEM parts being used for the conversion to clarify in this scenario

[bmw335ie90]

Originally Posted by michaelalex17

Thanks for the feedback. Am talking about all OEM parts being used for the conversion to clarify in this scenario

6 speed conversions would probably be a good example here where a factory e91 manual transmission would be worth a solid amount more than a converted one. That swap can be done incorrectly and lead to issues down the road.

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by bmw335ie90

6 speed conversions would probably be a good example here where a factory e91 manual transmission would be worth a solid amount more than a converted one. That swap can be done incorrectly and lead to issues down the road.

Great point, so degree of difficulty of the part that has been swapped is a factor in value. Changing interior trim from wood to aluminum for example is more straightforward than an auto to manual swap.

Now the question is that car that was an auto that was swapped to manual, is it worth more than when it was an auto and if so by how much, and how much less valuable is the swapped car compared to a factory optioned manual.

[Djphonics]

Even though this against what I'm planning to do, a factory car is worth more in my opinion.

Whenever something is modified, including retrofits, it devalues a car, in my opinion. So for your example above car 2 would be worth the least.

The concern always comes down to who did the work, how good are they at such work, and would they stand behind it.

For the e91 example with the transmission, you have to be concerned about pedals lining up properly, modules being programmed properly, and possibly some other issues. If you're looking for just a regular daily driver, you wouldn't want to have those worries.

If it's a 'special' car, you may be willing to deal with those concerns, but you'd want a discount from a factory manual car. If you are willing to deal with those concerns, you may be inclined to purchase an automatic and do the swap yourself. I don't think the swap would turn in to any type of gains.

There are, of course, always exceptions. N54 n55 s55 s65 swaps will probably net you a few bucks if done we'll.

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by Djphonics

Even though this against what I'm planning to do, a factory car is worth more in my opinion.

Whenever something is modified, including retrofits, it devalues a car, in my opinion. So for your example above car 2 would be worth the least.

The concern always comes down to who did the work, how good are they at such work, and would they stand behind it.

For the e91 example with the transmission, you have to be concerned about pedals lining up properly, modules being programmed properly, and possibly some other issues. If you're looking for just a regular daily driver, you wouldn't want to have those worries.

If it's a 'special' car, you may be willing to deal with those concerns, but you'd want a discount from a factory manual car. If you are willing to deal with those concerns, you may be inclined to purchase an automatic and do the swap yourself. I don't think the swap would turn in to any type of gains.

There are, of course, always exceptions. N54 n55 s55 s65 swaps will probably net you a few bucks if done we'll.

Great points. What if the modifications for vehicle 2 are simpler than an auto to manual conversion? Like going from base to sport package you basically just need the seats, steering wheel, and springs. If that was done with all oem parts would you say that de-valued the car or increased it's value?

[zomski101]

The way I see it, in general, a stock car is the most desirable/highest valued in the used market because for the simple fact it hasn't been touched/messed with. Any modification done to a car will generally decrease it's value, by how much depends on the mod and who installed it.

It kind of comes down to what one person wants to pay, in your example I would see car 3 being the most valuable followed by car 1 then 2 simply cause I could care less about those modifications and would like to start off with a none molested car.
Yet, if car 2 had Dinan performance mods installed by Dinan and a Bavsound sound system installed by a BMW dealership then i'd put it above car 1 and 3 in terms of value. That's just me tho.

[michaelalex17]

All really interesting points of view, keep 'em coming!

[Djphonics]

Originally Posted by michaelalex17

Great points. What if the modifications for vehicle 2 are simpler than an auto to manual conversion? Like going from base to sport package you basically just need the seats, steering wheel, and springs. If that was done with all oem parts would you say that de-valued the car or increased it's value?

Personally, wouldn't bother me if I knew the person and understood what exactly was done. On a general note, would prefer something untouched though.

[TyroneShoelaces]

I don't think these cars have the provenance to worry about it. Maybe an M car with options like a carbon roof? But I don't think the long term price hike of manual E91s is going to stick around. To an enthusiast yes having a car that was factory optioned is going to have more appeal, but double the value for aesthetics like trim and fire extinguishers? Nah. A major item like a trans sure will add considerable value.

You'd have to get the right people in the room to really justify a big increase in cost. Who knows maybe down the road people won't want cars with comfort access, HID lights or adaptive cruise as to difficult to get parts for? So a base model might have more value.

Look at E30's for instance, an is model will command more money I assume? If I was shopping for one not knowing much about them but as an enthusiast, I would look for the best body, best maintained car I could find.

[hassmaschine]

Higher optioned E30s are still worth more than base models. Modified cars, especially ones with M50 swaps done 15 years ago are generally worth less than stock ones, but that's not always the case. Hardly any of them will be completely untouched by now. Overall condition is more important, mileage in most cases doesn't even matter. A manual swapped E30 (assuming done correctly) is probably worth more than a stock auto. It used to be dirt cheap (and easy) to swap them, but now good manual parts are getting harder to find, so it's easier to just buy one with a 5-speed already.

As far as E90s, BMW made so many of them, I mean, I don't know why anyone would care about the value. they're $5-10k cars at best. Do whatever you want to it, it's not going to move the needle very much. Naturally, higher end models will hold their value better than base models. In 20 years most of them still won't be worth anything, except the M3 and maybe the 335is or 330i. E90s are not investments.

[CTinline-six]

Stock factory optioned cars will always be higher in value, because most people want a clean unmolested car to build on. Your typical E90 (non-M3) buyer isn't the same as someone looking for show-quality specs though, so it might be different for say a 328i sedan vs. a low mileage mint condition M3, or a low-production classic vehicle.


In my mind there is a difference between "upgrades/improvements" and major modifications or changes. An upgrade would be something like sport seats or steering wheel. Installed correctly these won't add to the $ value of the car, but might increase the experience of owning it, or appeal to a wider range of buyers vs. a car without them. Major modifications such as 6 speed swap, sound system and suspension changes, and tuning are always questionable because they depend heavily on the quality of the work that was done, and usually detract from the value because they aren't factory upgrades to a factory-built vehicle. Instead they are usually done based on the owner's taste.

[Vivek.]

Depends on how easy it is to properly do the work. Swapped seats? Adds value. Swapped dash...I'd be wary. Very hard to put that back together 100% perfect with 0 loose pieces/rattles/noises etc.

The seller would have an uphill battle showing that the work was done properly whereas with seats as long as they're visually in good condition and matching the rest of the interior most would accept that at face value.

[neilvan]

The way I look at it M cars always hold value as its an enthusiast car. Who pays the higher prices for used older cars ; enthusiasts.

What else do they want? Manuals and wagons. these 2 will always hold value over their counterparts especially because both are dying breeds that are still sought after.

Of course Enthusiast spec options will add to the desire (sport or Msport, rwd and minimal electronics).

Your standard run of the mill sedan or coupe isnt going to increase in value much or go to barrett jackson. Most (98-99%) of the people looking for those want brand new with all of the tech features. Why would they pay a ton for an older one when they could get a new one? Auto, x-drive 328 sedan is just your commuter and the general public wants the shiny new new



Now for mods: OEM+ upgrades and M3 parts generally are going to add very minor value/not detract. wrap, Ebay parts or a straight pipe/burble etc basically makes your car worth $0. Proper mods: LSD, brand name parts and a bunch more HP than stock may or may not. Depends on the buyer and quality of work/car maintenance but it drastically narrows the type of buyer