BMW e90 328i crank no start

Jakesarac · 06-05-2021, 12:23 PM

Hey guys, new to the forums here. I recently picked up my 3rd Bmw, a 2011 328i xdrive (n51 sulev model) for an absolute steal. This car had no electrical power when I got it, nothing would happen when I inserted the key. I ended up finding a matching set DME, CAS, key slot, key, and start stop button off a wrecked 11’ 328i xdrive very similarly optioned to mine, tossed them in and everything works except the lights. I’m assuming the lights are an frm problem but not too big of a deal as of now as I just want to get the car running. When I put the car on the battery pack (battery reads 11.8v) and crank it, it won’t start unless I dump starting fluid in the intake, then it will run fine and then sounds like it’s getting fuel knock and dies. I pulled the fuel rail connector and cranked but getting little to no fuel flow, so I replaced the fuel pump and nothing changed. I tried measuring voltage with the cannon plug pictured unplugged at the brown (ground) wire, and red/white (positive) wire and am reading 0v in all conditions (ignition on/cranking, ignition off). I tried all the other wires in every order and can only get 1.5v at 2 of the wires. I also unplugged both of the connectors coming from and going to the fuel pump module and measured voltage with ignition on and also while cranking and still get 0v on every pin. Could this be a coding issue? Does anyone have any advice to point me in the right direction? I also double checked the hose that always breaks connected to the regulator and it’s fine. When I turn the ignition on, I don’t hear and noises from the fuel pump even with the wire cover off. I have also tried swapping the ekpm2 fuel pump module from my e60 with the e90’s ekpm3 module and nothing changed, but I’m not sure if they are interchangeable on these cars. I’m not the best person at electrical troubleshooting, but I’ve been working on cars my whole life and I’m also a certified aircraft mechanic so with a little advice I should be able to figure this out.
Thanks in advance guys!

TunafishE93 · 06-05-2021, 07:58 PM

Sounds like immobilizer is activated. With all you have replaced it will almost be impossible to diagnosis on here. But i would look into the immobilizer and make sure that is not the issue.

Jakesarac · 06-05-2021, 08:46 PM

I haven’t even thought about the immobilizer to be honest. I will be getting inpa set up on my computer tomorrow and try to reset it. I will keep you updated, thanks for the help!

gbalthrop · 06-06-2021, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakesarac

I haven’t even thought about the immobilizer to be honest. I will be getting inpa set up on my computer tomorrow and try to reset it. I will keep you updated, thanks for the help!

INPA will "Save your Bacon".

If you have NOT used INPA a LOT, begin with:
1) INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification, and SAVE that screen (and attach to next post here) for future reference. That lists the "Variant" or SGBD of ALL Modules in your vehicle, at least those that are working and connected to the Bus System.
2) INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules. That is a Two-Screen List of Fault Codes (or lack thereof) in EACH Module in the vehicle. Save those two screens and attach here for analysis.

Attached is a pdf: "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" which provides images of the screens described (for my 3/2007 328xi), and explains how to setup your Cable when connected to your Laptop (COM port latency 1), and HOW to do ScreenPrints using PrtSc button on keyboard, and paste to "Paint" (Windows accessory photo editor), and SaveAs jpg format image file which you can attach here.

3) If you are able to follow this, MUCH more detailed data (in German) is available when you connect to a particular Module. Since you have a "Crank, NO Start" situation, we are particularly interested in ALL Data available in DME Fault Memory. To get that, follow this Menu Path:
INPA > DME (MSV80 for your 328i) > F4 Fault Memory > F1 Read Fault Memory > F3 Fault Memory with Freeze Frame Data.

If you Save ScreenPrint of ALL Screens of that DME Data, and attach jpg files here, we can translate using Google Translate and interpret the data. Don't let the German scare you, much of it is repetitive, such as "Fehler momentan NICHT vorhanden" = Fault NOT currently present.

George

Jakesarac · 06-06-2021, 03:15 PM

thanks for the tutorial! this is my first time using inpa and e90post, so I'm sorry if I do something wrong lol. i attached multiple images of the screens I found while following your instructions, let me know what you think!
thanks

gbalthrop · 06-06-2021, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakesarac

... I attached multiple images of the screens I found while following your instructions, let me know what you think!
thanks

"CDA6" is the Fault Code to concentrate on. I will provide my impressions of what the screens you attached already suggest to me (with translations), and then suggest "Next Steps".

Impressions:
1) The DME is NOT receiving a "Message" / "Botschaft" (NOT embassy ;-) from the Fuel Pump Module (EKP), cannot communicate with EKP Module, and gets NO Signal (Fehlerart 4) from the EKP.
2) The DME has to communicate with the EKP in order to activate the Fuel Pump, so THAT is why you don't have fuel rail pressure and have to squirt Starting Fluid to get fire on cranking.
3) THAT CDA6 Fault code IS Currently Present (Fehler Momentan Vorhanden). It would NOT (kein) Light a warning Lamp. "Fehler verursacht kein Aufleuchten der Warnlampe (MIL)".
4) That Fault Code has been saved TWICE at 139,128 km odometer reading, or 8km range of that number. I presume your current odometer reading is ~ 86,450 miles?
5) First occasion that code was saved, battery voltage was 12.39V, and 2nd occasion, battery was depleted @ 11.58V, but Terminal 87 (DME Main Relay) was active (that's Terminal 87 Voltage); on BOTH occasions, Engine RPM was Zero.
6) BMW Fault Code Lookup provides the following Definition, and Fault Info Sheet:
CDA6 | Message (status, electric fuel pump, 0x335) incorrect, receiver DME, transmitter EKP | msv80
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...QANQA0ADAANAA=

I have NO idea if that suggests the Pump itself (which you say you replaced) is NOT the Correct Part#, or there is simply NO communication received by the DME from the EKP via the PT-CAN (PowerTrain) BUS. My impression is the latter, but check Replacement Pump Part Number against RealOEM.com number for your vehicle (enter VIN in this page):
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

Next Steps:
1) Use INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification to view & SAVE a Screenprint of ALL the Modules (at least those with Power Supply, and Bus Connection) in your vehicle. See "Tutorial" pdf for HOW to do that, if the simplified "Menu Path" above is NOT sufficient.
2) Look to see if "17 EKP" appears between "12 DME" and "18 EGS" if automatic, or "20 RDC" for Tire Pressure Monitor System Module. Post a ScreenPrint of that List of Modules that are functional/ that INPA can communicate with. If "17 EKP" does NOT appear, either it is NOT powered (fuse F70), OR the PT-CAN bus wires (Blue/Red & Red) are NOT properly connected at the Module.
3) While you are at the Functional Jobs Menu, View "F4 Fault Memory, ALL Modules", and Save a ScreenPrint of BOTH screens of Fault Memory ALL Modules. Attach JPG image files of those F2 & F4 screens HERE.
4) To allow us to help YOU best, Please provide the Last-7 characters of your VIN so we can make sure we have the correct wiring diagrams for YOUR vehicle.

Next step will be to see if you can connect to EKP Module (Engine > Fuel Pump EKP (at bottom of Right ListBox when Engine is selected in LEFT Listbox). Let us know WHAT happens when you try that. It is expected that you will get an error message, and if so, attach a ScreenPrint of any such Error Message.

If somehow you ARE able to connect to the EKP Module and get the Main Menu, select F4 and Read Fault Memory. Save ScreenPrint of EKP Fault Memory Screen(s).
George

Jakesarac · 06-06-2021, 07:04 PM

Great, so I verified the fitment of the fuel pump, and it's correct, I just bench tested both the new and old pumps by putting 12V to them and they both work. The 86,450 miles on the odometer is incorrect, the car is still reading the VIN and mileage of the car I got the DME, CAS, ignition slot, and key off of, could that be an issue? Also, the battery doesn't have enough juice to power the car fully, so I've been using the jump pack for the whole diagnosis because I don't want to waste money on the battery if I can't solve the fuel issue. As pictured below I don't see "17 ekp" under the "identification" table in inpa. I also tried to connect to the EKP module under the "Engine Listbox" and could not connect as pictured below. I was reading online about crank no start conditions and it seems as if other people had no fuel pressure because the immobilizer was activated which could be my case, but I tried to do a realignment of the EWS and it won't show up in inpa. The last 7 of my VIN # is A657119 I appreciate all the help, I hope we can get this sorted!

gbalthrop · 06-06-2021, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakesarac

... I verified the fitment of the fuel pump, and it's correct, I just bench tested both the new and old pumps by putting 12V to them and they both work... I don't see "17 ekp" under the "identification" table in inpa.[NOT on BUS, Neither is "72 FRM" -- you said there were lighting issues.] I also tried to connect to the EKP module under the "Engine Listbox" and could not connect as pictured below... The last 7 of my VIN # is A657119

When a Module does NOT appear on Module List that indicates either: (1) The Module is NOT powered, OR (2) The Module Bus Connection (by which it sends "messages" to the JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module which is BUS "Hub" has an issue with its wiring or connector. Neither your "17 EKP" NOR your "72 FRM" appear in either the Module List (F2) or Fault Code List (F4) using Functional Jobs.

Fuse F70 powers the EKP Module. Check that fuse Electrically and test for 12V+ at Pin #1, Red/Black wire, of Connector X13663 at the Module, with Ignition ON. Check for Continuity to Chassis Ground at X13663/2, Brown Wire. Inspect Pins & Sockets 8, 9 (Blue/Red wire), 15 & 16 (Red wire) related to the PT-CAN connection. Looking for any damaged pins or sockets, any that don't make firm contact, or any obvious connector or wiring issues.

You can "Hotwire" the Pump to test for proper installation & wiring at the pump connector on top of the tank (which has been reported to fail) by applying 12V+ to the Red/White wire (Pin #4 of Connector X3507 (X3507/4) and Ground to X3507/2, Brown wire. If the engine starts and runs with the pump hotwired then what we have here is a failure to communicate.

I attach 4 ISTA ScreenPrints for YOUR vehicle to the NEXT Post, so as NOT to mess up margins here. These show the EKP Module Location, Wiring SSP, Connector View for the two connectors (identifying Pins), PT-CAN Bus wiring, and F70 wiring & Location on JB Fuse Panel.

Please let us know what you find,
George

gbalthrop · 06-06-2021, 10:32 PM

ISTA ScreenPrints as listed in prior post, 2011 328xi.
George

Jakesarac · 06-08-2021, 07:10 AM

So I hopped back on the project after work today, I here are my findings:
I checked what I believe is fuse f70, (I found a diagram online because this car didn’t come with one) it is was a small prong 7.5 amp fuse, I pulled it and it was blown..... So I found a spare 7.5 amp fuse and tossed it in, as soon as I put the key in, I put my ear by the fuel pump and I heard it start to prime for about 1 second, then I tried to start and nothing happened. I pulled the fuse again, and it blew, I did this 3 times. I looked at the online fuse box diagram I found for 2007+ e90 328i and it says fuse is supposed to be 20 amp. I pulled the passenger seat heater fuse and put it in f70 and I heard what sounded almost like a puff of air from the fuel pump and car still didn’t start but almost sounded like it was cranking better. So I pulled the fuse again and it did not blow but still wouldn’t start.

Next I tried to read voltage with fuse f70 removed from the fuse box using my probes with wires wrapped around them. Here are my findings
Ignition off: read 9.15V steady
Ignition on: reads 9.6V and steadily climbs by the hundredth of a volt and slows down when it reaches near 10.5V
Ignition on and cranking: voltage drops to 8.0V steady

I tried pulling the socket connector at the fuel pump (ignition on) and tried testing continuity between the fuel pumps ground pin and the connectors brown wire pin and got nothing. Next I tried fuel pump ground pin to chassis ground and had continuity, but the socket plug ground wire didn’t have continuity to chassis ground. I also checked the red wire on the plug side for power with chassis ground applied and had 0 power (ignition on). I tried pulling the smaller connector off of the fuel pump module behind the rear seat and stuck wires connected to my multimeter into the red/white wire and ground to the brown wire and recieved 0v, I did not get the chance to check power to chassis ground tonight but will tomorrow after work.

Next: I tired jumping the fuel pump using my small jumper box with wires connected to cables and put 12v to the pump side pins where the red and white and brown wires were connected to and had no results.
I’m also going to try and put the original fuel pump back in which responded to the 12v from the jumper.

Do you know if it is actually supposed to be a 7.5 amp or 20 amp fuse in f70?

I am pretty sure my frm is bad, none of the dome lights work in the interior, but radio works and glove box light works.
Any chance the frm could be causing me issues with the fuel pump? I’m planning on replacing that but just want to get the car started for now.

Also any chance me jumping the battery terminals in the engine bay during all of this because the battery is weak could be a problem?
Wish me luck, I will report back after work.

gbalthrop · 06-08-2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakesarac

... I checked what I believe is fuse f70, (I found a diagram online because this car didn’t come with one) [1] it is was a small prong 7.5 amp fuse, I pulled it and it was blown..... So I found a spare 7.5 amp fuse and tossed it in, as soon as I put the key in, I put my ear by the fuel pump and I heard it start to prime for about 1 second, then I tried to start and nothing happened. I pulled the fuse again, and it blew, I did this 3 times. I looked at the online fuse box diagram I found for 2007+ e90 328i and it says fuse is supposed to be 20 amp. I pulled the passenger seat heater fuse and put it in f70 and I heard what sounded almost like a puff of air from the fuel pump and car still didn’t start but almost sounded like it was cranking better. So I pulled the fuse again and it did not blow but still wouldn’t start.

Next I tried to read voltage with fuse f70 removed from the fuse box using my probes with wires wrapped around them. Here are my findings
Ignition off: read 9.15V steady
Ignition on: reads 9.6V and steadily climbs by the hundredth of a volt and slows down when it reaches near 10.5V
Ignition on and cranking: voltage drops to 8.0V steady
[2]
I tried pulling the socket connector at the fuel pump (ignition on) and tried testing continuity between the fuel pumps ground pin and the connectors brown wire pin and got nothing. Next I tried fuel pump ground pin to chassis ground and had continuity, but the socket plug ground wire didn’t have continuity to chassis ground.[3] I also checked the red wire on the plug side for power with chassis ground applied and had 0 power (ignition on). I tried pulling the smaller connector off of the fuel pump module behind the rear seat and stuck wires connected to my multimeter into the red/white wire and ground to the brown wire and recieved 0v, I did not get the chance to check power to chassis ground tonight but will tomorrow after work. [4]

Next: I tired jumping the fuel pump using my small jumper box with wires connected to cables and put 12v to the pump side pins where the red and white and brown wires were connected to and had no results. I’m also going to try and put the original fuel pump back in which responded to the 12v from the jumper.
Do you know if it is actually supposed to be a 7.5 amp or 20 amp fuse in f70?
I am pretty sure my frm is bad, none of the dome lights work in the interior, but radio works and glove box light works. [6]
Any chance the frm could be causing me issues with the fuel pump? I’m planning on replacing that but just want to get the car started for now.
Also any chance me jumping the battery terminals in the engine bay during all of this because the battery is weak could be a problem? [7]

I can't easily/accurately follow WHAT wires or pins you are referencing without Connector/Pin numbers (I have never seen an N51 Pump connector or EKP connectors/wiring, so am just going by ISTA wiring diagrams provided in my earlier post.

My 3rd ISTA Screen attached to Post #9 was a wiring diagram of Fuse F70 on YOUR model, and the Fuse Location was shown on the Right Side of that ScreenPrint. You have to "Scroll Right", or use Ctrl/(-) to "zoom out", to see that part of the image file. F70 is the 4th of 5 fuses in that row of 5: F67 on Left, and F71 on Right of Row. I attach TWO screenprints from Bentley Manual to Next Post, showing fuse chart for ALL E9x models, 2008 and LATER. It shows F70 in SAME spot, and it is 20A.

I would suggest approaching this from TWO directions:
1) Try to determine WHY there is NOT 12V+ or battery voltage at X13663/1, Red/Black wire with Ignition ON. That's Pin #1 of EKP Module Connector X13663.

Is "Accessory Relay" IO1068 or "Terminal 30g" relay working?
You see the designation "30G" above fuse F70 on the EKP wiring diagram, and next to the Red/Black wire from the Fuse to Pin#1. That means that fuse is ONLY powered when "Terminal 30G" is active or the large, Black relay on the right of the JB (Junction Box) fuse panel is activated.

When you Press the START button WITHOUT pressing Brake, does the A/C Control Panel Light up? Do the windows operate, at least the REAR windows when the rear door switches are used (those do NOT require FRM function)?
If NO accessories operate, chances are good either the 30G relay is bad, or the circuit that activates it has a fault.

If you have questions about any ISTA wiring diagram or component location document furnished previously, OR need More documents, please let me know.

2) Try to "Hotwire" the pump currently in place, being aware that N51 models have a "round" pump connector which is different from N52K models. There HAVE been reports of issues with that connector, so if you CANNOT hotwire the pump by applying 12V+ and Ground respectively at X3507/4 and X3507/2, at the EKP Module Connector X3507, then you have a wiring connector issue. The Connector View for X3507 was shown on the RIGHT side of the 2nd attachment to Post #9.

The ISTA wiring diagrams are "interactive", and VERY detailed, so I would suggest taking a few minutes to review the attachments to post #9 above.
George

gbalthrop · 06-08-2021, 01:33 PM

Attached are two pages of Bentley Fuse Chart, 2008+
George

Jakesarac · 06-09-2021, 01:14 PM

Sorry, I am still fairly new to electrical diagrams, but will do my best to name the electrical components from the pictures you attached.
Ok, so i was not able to get every troubleshooting procedure you have given me complete last night, but I finished most and made a couple interesting discoveries.

First off I was able to get the rear Windows to roll up/down with the rear door panel switch, and the air conditioning display lights up and blows air. So this should eliminate the possibility of that accessory relay being faulty.

Next:
I tried to Hotwire the pump again using my other jump pack (did not realize my smaller one was “smart” so wouldn’t allow me to Hotwire), and the pump runs and works fine, (didn’t try to start the car while hot wiring yet though). So I know the pump will operate with 12V+ applied.

Next:
I’m starting to work my way from the pump itself to the end of the wiring to verify everything.

First I tried connecting my voltmeter to the red/white and the brown wires sockets on the “round plug” which come from connector x3507 that connects to the output of the pump module. With test leads in the sockets of the “round connector” which attaches to the fuel pump cap itself (sorry I do not know the name designation for this connector). With ignition on it receives 0V, and while cranking it receives 10.2V and slowly drops to 9.2V at the red/white and brown wires on the round plug.

So I moved up to connector x3507 (fuel pump control module output connector), with wires from voltmeter connected to red/white and brown wires at x3507, I read 0V ignition on, and 10.2v steady while cranking (this is with both connectors still plugged into the pump module).

I then moved to the bigger connector which feeds power to the module (at least I think it does), to the right of connector x3507 (there is so name for this connector in the images you attached but is the one with much more wires going to the module). I connected the voltmeter to the red and black bigger wires on that connector (power and ground), and read almost 12V flat!

So what I gathered from those procedures is that the input of the module is receiving 12v but is only putting out 10.2V at the output, could this be an indicator of a module failure or is this normal? Is 10.2v enough to power the pump?

I’m not 100% sure but I would think 10.2V would be enough to at least run the pump somewhat, so I ended up pulling the cap off the fuel pump (which seals the tank shut). I then connected the cap of the pump to the “round connector”, then pulled the plug off the bottom of the fuel pump cap, and connected my meter to the pins which the red/white and brown wires from the “round plug” connect to from connector x3507. I did this so I could also verify if the 10.2v is going through the connector at the fuel pump cap. (sorry I do not have the Bentley manual or any means of figuring out the names of those connectors so I hope you can follow). My readings were 0v during all conditions including cranking!!
I did this at 10:00pm while it was raining so I’m going to perform this procedure again after work today to verify, and also try it again with the fuel pump cap off of the other pump connected.

I also found fuse f70 and verified it’s location, and tossed a 20a fuse in and it’s not blowing anymore. I also read 9.15V at the receptacles for this fuse with it pulled out and ignition on.

Let me know if you have any other procedure to recommend to me, or if you know what the problem might be.
Thank you once again for all of your help with this mess!!

Jakesarac · 06-09-2021, 09:42 PM

So I just got home from work and got started on the car....

First thing I did:
I started with the most concerning issue to me. As I said before at the bottom of the fuel pump cap, reading voltage from the red/white wire pin and the brown wire pin (with the round connector connected to the top of the pump cap and connector at the bottom of the pump disconnected), I read 0v.
So I decided to swap the cap from the original pump out with the one reading 0v.
I put everything back together realizing I forgot to read voltage at the bottom of the cap again, so I said screw it and turned ignition on. I didn’t listen close enough but did not hear the pump prime. So then I decided to take everything apart...........
Pulled the smaller fuel line connector at top of the pump.......
Boom! Fuel flies everywhere and all over me, which ironically made me super happy.
So then I tried to start the car about 2-3 times and nothing
Happened. Pulled the fuel rail connector and lots of fuel came out.

So I then decided to check for spark and held a screwdriver on the output of the coil pack and nothing....
I then realized I still had my original ecu still in the car because I was trying everything before posting here...
Cranked the car and it started without even 2 cranks.
Conclusion:
1. I believe the connector that the round plug goes to on the cap of the fuel pump was one of the problems (at least my final problem with the no fuel condition)
It looks like it was arcing on the pins on the bottom of the cap and I guess was not making a solid enough connection.
2. Why didn’t the original pump work while it was in there? The fuel pump fuse, fuse f70 was blown because for whatever reason the last mechanic to work on it put a 7.5amp fuse in instead of a 20amp

My last questions for this thread to save me time from troubleshooting

:
1. I started the car multiple times and a let it run for about 10-15 mins and it is misfiring (runs pretty good but randomly tries to die a little bit, but is definitely jerking), rpms fluctuate from 800-400rpm. Do you have any pointers to what this could be?
2. There’s a fair bit of white smoke coming from the exhaust, even at operating temperature. I assume a lot of it is from the starter fluid, but I assume it might have something to do with the valve cover or pcv, any ideas?
3. If I buy a used frm can I code it to the car with INPA, NCSexpert, or protool?
4. I think I already know the answer to this one but the obd2 still read the wrong vin and odometer reading, is there any way I can fix this? I heard not even the dealer can.
Thank you for all for the help troubleshooting! I’m going to look into buying some Bentley manuals.

06-05-2021, 12:23 PM	#1
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	BMW e90 328i crank no start Hey guys, new to the forums here. I recently picked up my 3rd Bmw, a 2011 328i xdrive (n51 sulev model) for an absolute steal. This car had no electrical power when I got it, nothing would happen when I inserted the key. I ended up finding a matching set DME, CAS, key slot, key, and start stop button off a wrecked 11’ 328i xdrive very similarly optioned to mine, tossed them in and everything works except the lights. I’m assuming the lights are an frm problem but not too big of a deal as of now as I just want to get the car running. When I put the car on the battery pack (battery reads 11.8v) and crank it, it won’t start unless I dump starting fluid in the intake, then it will run fine and then sounds like it’s getting fuel knock and dies. I pulled the fuel rail connector and cranked but getting little to no fuel flow, so I replaced the fuel pump and nothing changed. I tried measuring voltage with the cannon plug pictured unplugged at the brown (ground) wire, and red/white (positive) wire and am reading 0v in all conditions (ignition on/cranking, ignition off). I tried all the other wires in every order and can only get 1.5v at 2 of the wires. I also unplugged both of the connectors coming from and going to the fuel pump module and measured voltage with ignition on and also while cranking and still get 0v on every pin. Could this be a coding issue? Does anyone have any advice to point me in the right direction? I also double checked the hose that always breaks connected to the regulator and it’s fine. When I turn the ignition on, I don’t hear and noises from the fuel pump even with the wire cover off. I have also tried swapping the ekpm2 fuel pump module from my e60 with the e90’s ekpm3 module and nothing changed, but I’m not sure if they are interchangeable on these cars. I’m not the best person at electrical troubleshooting, but I’ve been working on cars my whole life and I’m also a certified aircraft mechanic so with a little advice I should be able to figure this out. Thanks in advance guys!
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06-05-2021, 07:58 PM	#2
TunafishE93 Major 418 Rep 1,152 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: NV iTrader: (0)	Sounds like immobilizer is activated. With all you have replaced it will almost be impossible to diagnosis on here. But i would look into the immobilizer and make sure that is not the issue.
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06-05-2021, 08:46 PM	#3
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	I haven’t even thought about the immobilizer to be honest. I will be getting inpa set up on my computer tomorrow and try to reset it. I will keep you updated, thanks for the help!
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06-06-2021, 03:15 PM	#5
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	thanks for the tutorial! this is my first time using inpa and e90post, so I'm sorry if I do something wrong lol. i attached multiple images of the screens I found while following your instructions, let me know what you think! thanks Attached Images
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06-06-2021, 07:04 PM	#7
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	Great, so I verified the fitment of the fuel pump, and it's correct, I just bench tested both the new and old pumps by putting 12V to them and they both work. The 86,450 miles on the odometer is incorrect, the car is still reading the VIN and mileage of the car I got the DME, CAS, ignition slot, and key off of, could that be an issue? Also, the battery doesn't have enough juice to power the car fully, so I've been using the jump pack for the whole diagnosis because I don't want to waste money on the battery if I can't solve the fuel issue. As pictured below I don't see "17 ekp" under the "identification" table in inpa. I also tried to connect to the EKP module under the "Engine Listbox" and could not connect as pictured below. I was reading online about crank no start conditions and it seems as if other people had no fuel pressure because the immobilizer was activated which could be my case, but I tried to do a realignment of the EWS and it won't show up in inpa. The last 7 of my VIN # is A657119 I appreciate all the help, I hope we can get this sorted! Attached Images
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06-06-2021, 10:32 PM	#9
gbalthrop Brigadier General 2740 Rep 4,065 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi E91 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Fairfax Co, VA iTrader: (0)	ISTA ScreenPrints as listed in prior post, 2011 328xi. George Attached Images
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06-08-2021, 07:10 AM	#10
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	So I hopped back on the project after work today, I here are my findings: I checked what I believe is fuse f70, (I found a diagram online because this car didn’t come with one) it is was a small prong 7.5 amp fuse, I pulled it and it was blown..... So I found a spare 7.5 amp fuse and tossed it in, as soon as I put the key in, I put my ear by the fuel pump and I heard it start to prime for about 1 second, then I tried to start and nothing happened. I pulled the fuse again, and it blew, I did this 3 times. I looked at the online fuse box diagram I found for 2007+ e90 328i and it says fuse is supposed to be 20 amp. I pulled the passenger seat heater fuse and put it in f70 and I heard what sounded almost like a puff of air from the fuel pump and car still didn’t start but almost sounded like it was cranking better. So I pulled the fuse again and it did not blow but still wouldn’t start. Next I tried to read voltage with fuse f70 removed from the fuse box using my probes with wires wrapped around them. Here are my findings Ignition off: read 9.15V steady Ignition on: reads 9.6V and steadily climbs by the hundredth of a volt and slows down when it reaches near 10.5V Ignition on and cranking: voltage drops to 8.0V steady I tried pulling the socket connector at the fuel pump (ignition on) and tried testing continuity between the fuel pumps ground pin and the connectors brown wire pin and got nothing. Next I tried fuel pump ground pin to chassis ground and had continuity, but the socket plug ground wire didn’t have continuity to chassis ground. I also checked the red wire on the plug side for power with chassis ground applied and had 0 power (ignition on). I tried pulling the smaller connector off of the fuel pump module behind the rear seat and stuck wires connected to my multimeter into the red/white wire and ground to the brown wire and recieved 0v, I did not get the chance to check power to chassis ground tonight but will tomorrow after work. Next: I tired jumping the fuel pump using my small jumper box with wires connected to cables and put 12v to the pump side pins where the red and white and brown wires were connected to and had no results. I’m also going to try and put the original fuel pump back in which responded to the 12v from the jumper. Do you know if it is actually supposed to be a 7.5 amp or 20 amp fuse in f70? I am pretty sure my frm is bad, none of the dome lights work in the interior, but radio works and glove box light works. Any chance the frm could be causing me issues with the fuel pump? I’m planning on replacing that but just want to get the car started for now. Also any chance me jumping the battery terminals in the engine bay during all of this because the battery is weak could be a problem? Wish me luck, I will report back after work.
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06-08-2021, 01:33 PM	#12
gbalthrop Brigadier General 2740 Rep 4,065 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi E91 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Fairfax Co, VA iTrader: (0)	Bentley Fuse Chart, 2008 & LATER E9x Models Attached are two pages of Bentley Fuse Chart, 2008+ George Attached Images
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06-09-2021, 01:14 PM	#13
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	Sorry, I am still fairly new to electrical diagrams, but will do my best to name the electrical components from the pictures you attached. Ok, so i was not able to get every troubleshooting procedure you have given me complete last night, but I finished most and made a couple interesting discoveries. First off I was able to get the rear Windows to roll up/down with the rear door panel switch, and the air conditioning display lights up and blows air. So this should eliminate the possibility of that accessory relay being faulty. Next: I tried to Hotwire the pump again using my other jump pack (did not realize my smaller one was “smart” so wouldn’t allow me to Hotwire), and the pump runs and works fine, (didn’t try to start the car while hot wiring yet though). So I know the pump will operate with 12V+ applied. Next: I’m starting to work my way from the pump itself to the end of the wiring to verify everything. First I tried connecting my voltmeter to the red/white and the brown wires sockets on the “round plug” which come from connector x3507 that connects to the output of the pump module. With test leads in the sockets of the “round connector” which attaches to the fuel pump cap itself (sorry I do not know the name designation for this connector). With ignition on it receives 0V, and while cranking it receives 10.2V and slowly drops to 9.2V at the red/white and brown wires on the round plug. So I moved up to connector x3507 (fuel pump control module output connector), with wires from voltmeter connected to red/white and brown wires at x3507, I read 0V ignition on, and 10.2v steady while cranking (this is with both connectors still plugged into the pump module). I then moved to the bigger connector which feeds power to the module (at least I think it does), to the right of connector x3507 (there is so name for this connector in the images you attached but is the one with much more wires going to the module). I connected the voltmeter to the red and black bigger wires on that connector (power and ground), and read almost 12V flat! So what I gathered from those procedures is that the input of the module is receiving 12v but is only putting out 10.2V at the output, could this be an indicator of a module failure or is this normal? Is 10.2v enough to power the pump? I’m not 100% sure but I would think 10.2V would be enough to at least run the pump somewhat, so I ended up pulling the cap off the fuel pump (which seals the tank shut). I then connected the cap of the pump to the “round connector”, then pulled the plug off the bottom of the fuel pump cap, and connected my meter to the pins which the red/white and brown wires from the “round plug” connect to from connector x3507. I did this so I could also verify if the 10.2v is going through the connector at the fuel pump cap. (sorry I do not have the Bentley manual or any means of figuring out the names of those connectors so I hope you can follow). My readings were 0v during all conditions including cranking!! I did this at 10:00pm while it was raining so I’m going to perform this procedure again after work today to verify, and also try it again with the fuel pump cap off of the other pump connected. I also found fuse f70 and verified it’s location, and tossed a 20a fuse in and it’s not blowing anymore. I also read 9.15V at the receptacles for this fuse with it pulled out and ignition on. Let me know if you have any other procedure to recommend to me, or if you know what the problem might be. Thank you once again for all of your help with this mess!!
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06-09-2021, 09:42 PM	#14
Jakesarac New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 08 535xi, 11 328i xdrive Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Bear, DE iTrader: (0)	So I just got home from work and got started on the car.... First thing I did: I started with the most concerning issue to me. As I said before at the bottom of the fuel pump cap, reading voltage from the red/white wire pin and the brown wire pin (with the round connector connected to the top of the pump cap and connector at the bottom of the pump disconnected), I read 0v. So I decided to swap the cap from the original pump out with the one reading 0v. I put everything back together realizing I forgot to read voltage at the bottom of the cap again, so I said screw it and turned ignition on. I didn’t listen close enough but did not hear the pump prime. So then I decided to take everything apart........... Pulled the smaller fuel line connector at top of the pump....... Boom! Fuel flies everywhere and all over me, which ironically made me super happy. So then I tried to start the car about 2-3 times and nothing Happened. Pulled the fuel rail connector and lots of fuel came out. So I then decided to check for spark and held a screwdriver on the output of the coil pack and nothing.... I then realized I still had my original ecu still in the car because I was trying everything before posting here... Cranked the car and it started without even 2 cranks. Conclusion: 1. I believe the connector that the round plug goes to on the cap of the fuel pump was one of the problems (at least my final problem with the no fuel condition) It looks like it was arcing on the pins on the bottom of the cap and I guess was not making a solid enough connection. 2. Why didn’t the original pump work while it was in there? The fuel pump fuse, fuse f70 was blown because for whatever reason the last mechanic to work on it put a 7.5amp fuse in instead of a 20amp My last questions for this thread to save me time from troubleshooting : 1. I started the car multiple times and a let it run for about 10-15 mins and it is misfiring (runs pretty good but randomly tries to die a little bit, but is definitely jerking), rpms fluctuate from 800-400rpm. Do you have any pointers to what this could be? 2. There’s a fair bit of white smoke coming from the exhaust, even at operating temperature. I assume a lot of it is from the starter fluid, but I assume it might have something to do with the valve cover or pcv, any ideas? 3. If I buy a used frm can I code it to the car with INPA, NCSexpert, or protool? 4. I think I already know the answer to this one but the obd2 still read the wrong vin and odometer reading, is there any way I can fix this? I heard not even the dealer can. Thank you for all for the help troubleshooting! I’m going to look into buying some Bentley manuals.
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