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      10-19-2008, 12:32 AM   #1
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Track heads, z4 M brake rotors.

Who has had their Ms out on track for some hard driving. Preferably people with experience who use the brakes to a good bit of their full potential.

The coupes first time out on track my rotors were horribly warped within a few hot laps. I had hoped it happened when I went into the pits during a hot lap to check the tires but ended up sticking in there for a few minutes. Or the pads I used.

Anyone else have issues, or no issues?

I don't care so much if they crack, I expected that to happen from time to time, but warped rotors really ruin your weekend.
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      10-19-2008, 01:09 PM   #2
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Thumbs up No warping, no cracks

I've got at least fifty heat cycles on my OE rotors and have experienced no warping or cracking. I've used both Performance Friction PF-01 and Raybestos ST-43 brake pads with good results.
Sometimes shuddering resulting from pad material buildup on the rotors is mistaken to be an indication of rotor warping. This can happen when street quality pads are overheated during heavy braking track use and the pad material is unevenly deposited onto the rotor surface.
Suggest you first clean up the rotors using Gumout carb cleaner and rough them up using a sanding block and #100 emery paper. If that doesn't work check them with a run-out gage. If they are in fact warped your 4 year/50,000 mile BMW Maintenance Program should cover replacement. Be sure you have the OE pads installed when you visit the dealer and I would refrain from mentioning the circumstances under which the warping might have occurred
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Last edited by jmillet; 10-19-2008 at 10:00 PM..
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      10-19-2008, 04:13 PM   #3
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First weekend on track in my 3.0 rdst, the oem ft pads self-destructed and left a major deposit of pad material on the disc. The discs themselves were ok.

I currently use Brembo slotted sport rotors in ft with race pads and motul 600 fluid. No warping problems. Normal life of the ft rotors is 6-10 weekends before they crack.
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      10-19-2008, 08:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillet View Post
I've got at least fifty heat cycles on my OE rotors and have experienced no warping or cracking. I've used both Performance Friction PF-01 and Raybestos ST-43 brake pads with good results.
Sometimes shuddering resulting from pad material buildup on the rotors is mistaken to be an indication of rotor warping. This can happen when street quality pads are overheated during heavy braking track use and the pad material is unevenly deposited onto the rotor surface.
Suggest you first clean up the rotors using Gumout carb cleaner and rough them up using a sanding block and #100 emery paper. If that doesn't work check them with a run-out gage. If they are in fact warped your 4 year/50,000 mile BMW Maintenance Program should cover replacement. Be sure you have the OE pads installed when you visit the dealer and I would refrain from mentioning the circumstanced under which the warping might have occurred

Yea I was planning on Carbotech or performance friction for my next track day. I thought it might have been deposits but it started very quickly and it continued even with the stock pads and has continued for a week or two. They should have worn in by now especially with the different material.

the vibration is very much in parallel with the rotor temps though, IDK. We'll see what happens I guess.
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      10-20-2008, 12:00 AM   #5
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I had brake vibration when I first picked the Z4M. This was a new car right off the showroom. I took it back the deal said the car had sat so long that there was rust and crap the they had to clean all the rotors.

I have many track days on the car with carbon tech back. Hard enough brakes to make the rotors glow bright red in some braking zones. The warping and the brakes now have almost 10K miles.
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      10-20-2008, 12:19 AM   #6
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Just throwing an idea out there... Could it be possibly that the stock setup isn't so great at handling heat shock? So for those of who have tracked without problems on the stock setup (with or without more agressive pads), perhaps we've been better about getting things up to "proper" operating temperatures before hitting them hard?
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      10-20-2008, 12:27 AM   #7
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I have another thought--maybe the stock brakes just suck. There are too many complaints and from personal experience, I can say they just don't cut the mustard after a few hard applications.
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      10-20-2008, 03:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
Just throwing an idea out there... Could it be possibly that the stock setup isn't so great at handling heat shock? So for those of who have tracked without problems on the stock setup (with or without more agressive pads), perhaps we've been better about getting things up to "proper" operating temperatures before hitting them hard?

Well, the way a track session usually works is a warm up lap before going full green.

Rotors don't warp from hard abuse. They usually warp from improper cool down after session.
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      10-20-2008, 05:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussRamz View Post
I have another thought--maybe the stock brakes just suck. There are too many complaints and from personal experience, I can say they just don't cut the mustard after a few hard applications.
Well, they don't suck at being brakes for what they are designed, and that's for road use. No doubt Mov'it, AP Racing, Alcon, Brembo (real Brembos, not the 135i crap), etc. will outperform them under extreme conditions. Then again, some race brakes can be outperformed by OEM brakes in street conditions if they can't reach their ideal temperature range.
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      10-21-2008, 12:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
Well, they don't suck at being brakes for what they are designed, and that's for road use.
Agreed!
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      10-22-2008, 06:29 PM   #11
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I think with a better set of rotors and pads they will be great ...unless its a track only car I dont see the need for a big brake kit ...here are the rotors I'll be getting to replace the OEM's soon

http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared/...t=products.asp
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      10-22-2008, 09:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillet View Post
I've got at least fifty heat cycles on my OE rotors and have experienced no warping or cracking. I've used both Performance Friction PF-01 and Raybestos ST-43 brake pads with good results.
Are you able to drive the PF-01's to the track or are they a pad that is only safe to swap in at the track?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
I had brake vibration when I first picked the Z4M. This was a new car right off the showroom. I took it back the deal said the car had sat so long that there was rust and crap the they had to clean all the rotors.

I have many track days on the car with carbon tech back. Hard enough brakes to make the rotors glow bright red in some braking zones. The warping and the brakes now have almost 10K miles.
With the Carbotech pads did you use new rotors like the Carbotech web site says you have to? I really want these pads but I don't like that on the website it says:
"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced."
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      10-23-2008, 08:18 AM   #13
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If money isn't an issue get some stoptech carbon rotors.
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      10-23-2008, 08:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammmittt View Post
If money isn't an issue get some stoptech carbon rotors.
Apparently you're not familiar with Mov'it. None better...and they're expensive as hell...especially the ceramic rotor systems.

http://www.movit.de/
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      10-24-2008, 12:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
Are you able to drive the PF-01's to the track or are they a pad that is only safe to swap in at the track?



With the Carbotech pads did you use new rotors like the Carbotech web site says you have to? I really want these pads but I don't like that on the website it says:
"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced."
No, I just removed the stock pads after 1500miles, cleaned the rotors and put on the Carbotech XP 8 pads. After bedding them in I did 5 track days and 5K street miles on them. The pads and rotors worked well. Braking was fantastic. With R-compound tires I could run all day without any brake fade and go much deeper into braking zones. I have had no issues swapping between carbotech and the stock pads using the same stock rotors.

I'm now back on the stock pads cause the car is due for service. I also need to wear the stock pads down so it doesn't look weird when the rotors need to replaced at 15K miles when the pads look new. Free maintenance rocks.
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      10-24-2008, 12:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
Are you able to drive the PF-01's to the track or are they a pad that is only safe to swap in at the track?
SNIP
If I'm driving to local tracks within a 100 mile radius I install the PF-01 and R888 at home and drive them to the track. The primary issue with the PF-01 for street use is they produce alot of dust and they don't bite well when cold. Just allow a few extra car lengths for your braking zone and you won't rearend anyone.
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      10-24-2008, 04:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
No, I just removed the stock pads after 1500miles, cleaned the rotors and put on the Carbotech XP 8 pads. After bedding them in I did 5 track days and 5K street miles on them. The pads and rotors worked well. Braking was fantastic. With R-compound tires I could run all day without any brake fade and go much deeper into braking zones. I have had no issues swapping between carbotech and the stock pads using the same stock rotors.

I'm now back on the stock pads cause the car is due for service. I also need to wear the stock pads down so it doesn't look weird when the rotors need to replaced at 15K miles when the pads look new. Free maintenance rocks.
What do you mean you "cleaned" the rotors. Like you scrubbed them with something abrasive?

Do you normally drive on a track that's easy on brakes or do you go with the 8s because you use them on the street?
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      10-26-2008, 06:15 PM   #18
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My experience from this weekend. Ran a two-day HPDE with the local P-car club...

Track:


Setup:
* Agressive Alignment (max negative camber in the front with pins pulled, zero toe)
* Enkei NT03-M Lightweight Wheels (18x8.5 front / 18x10 rear)
* Nitto NT-01 R-Comp Tires (235/40-18 front / 275/35-18 rear)
* Ferrodo DS2500 brake pads front / Axxis ULT rear (I keep this combo in for street and track use)
* Super Blue brake fluid
* Everything else stock

Outcome:
Advanced two run groups to solo and was working the car hard. Only things passing me were the GT2s and 3s. Ten to fifteen laps at a time with lots of brake usage including hard stops from 100-130 to 30-50 every lap. Experienced no fade. Brakes worked beautifully. At the end of the day, the wheels were almost black with dust and the rotors were a nice bluish grey color (and also worn...there's definitely more dovetail along the edge of the rotor than there was before). So I really don't think it's quite fair or valid to say that "the brakes suck and are only good for highway driving".
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Last edited by jragan; 10-26-2008 at 06:19 PM.. Reason: added tire sizes and pad note
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      11-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #19
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Well i switched pads to carbotech, the fronts were replaced, and now I'm back at sebring (at the harder on brakes short course) So I guess I'm about to find out if it's the rotors or me that fucked up last time.
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      11-07-2008, 06:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Well i switched pads to carbotech, the fronts were replaced, and now I'm back at sebring (at the harder on brakes short course) So I guess I'm about to find out if it's the rotors or me that fucked up last time.
But you changed the pads and not the rotors...
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      11-08-2008, 05:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justincase View Post
I think with a better set of rotors and pads they will be great ...unless its a track only car I dont see the need for a big brake kit ...here are the rotors I'll be getting to replace the OEM's soon

http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared/...t=products.asp
Justincase,

Do you know that the ones for the 01- e46 M3 are suitable for our cars?
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      11-08-2008, 11:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gxanthop View Post
Justincase,

Do you know that the ones for the 01- e46 M3 are suitable for our cars?
actually after further research the rotors I posted are not available for the Z4M due to the size difference. The PFC rotors are for the oem M3 not the M3 CSL/ZCP which is the same setup for the Z4M
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