[lonaman]

I have a 2016 340i with 36,931 miles on it. I am planning to install a JB4. Prior to doing so, I am going to change the spark plugs with OEM Champion plugs and ignition coils with OEM Bosch coils. I am also upgrading the air intake with a BMS B58 Billet intake. The oil was last changed in March (only 217 miles ago, wow only 217 miles in 4 months thanks to COVID lockdown) with BMW LL-01 FE 0W-30.

Questions:
1. Are there any other general maintenance items I should do before doing the install?
2. Is BMW LL-01 FE 0W-30 ok to run with the JB4? I only plan on using Map 1 to start.

As always, thanks in advance for any advice.

[B58togo]

I’d hold off on the coils until the next plug change. I did my last plug swap around 45k and will replace coils and plugs again at 65k.

[Fuel-It!]

JB4 doesn't care what oil you run.

[lonaman]

Is there a spark plugs service reminder that needs to be reset when I change the spark plugs?

[chowser51]

I forgot to check mine. I just did my plugs at 65k. I’m switching to 25k intervals from here on out.

This is for e90. I will try to see if it is the same for f30.

https://www.youcanic.com/guide/reset...rvice-reminder

[CntryClub007]

You don't need to change the coils.

I'd just do an MHD or BM3 flash tune vs. JB4. JB4 is really only beneficial for use as a WMI controller or hardcore setup. It just adds more complexity TBH.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by CntryClub007

You don't need to change the coils.

I'd just do an MHD or BM3 flash tune vs. JB4. JB4 is really only beneficial for use as a WMI controller or hardcore setup. It just adds more complexity TBH.

Not everyone wants to void their warranty or lease of the bat by flashing and the JB4 provides solid power gains and a lot of features in an easy to install and remove package.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1739110

[Ifellapart]

Not sure why people are still running the BMS intake with all the stories of high IAT

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by Ifellapart

Not sure why people are still running the BMS intake with all the stories of high IAT

I've found IAT to be similar to stock, this is a water cooler intercooler so if you want to drive down intake temperatures you need a better heat exchanger radiator.

https://burgertuning.com/products/radiator

[itsglen]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Not everyone wants to void their warranty or lease of the bat by flashing and the JB4 provides solid power gains and a lot of features in an easy to install and remove package.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1739110

JB4 is a piggyback, Dinan also makes a piggyback (most would say comparable in terms of how they produce power etc...) and offers a matching factory warranty because they freely admit a piggyback voids the factory warranty. Their matching warranty is of course a selling point that they have leveraged for years. Because they admit to the community that a piggyback voids warranty - as does a flash.

That said - why is it that you insinuate that the JB4 piggyback does not void warranty and you stand in opposition to a company like Dinan or Racechip? Burger doesn't even make these claims but you as Burger partner do.

I'm hoping that you have some technical differentiator to share and this is not merely a matter of BMS (JB4) selling fuel-it products so you are biased. I have had this conversation with my dealer, BMW and all say yes - voids warranty.

While I've read responses like "not physically detectable" and "BMW does not know" and "show me a post..." or "I'm in the dark I don't know how BMW would detect a piggyback" I still come back to the fact that a known and trusted competitor in this space Dinan or race chip germany for that matter all feel compelled to offer a warranty because they admit that warranty is voided with their piggyback product. And by "admit" let's be clear - no one I know of is standing at the top of a mountain shouting "voids warranty" but by offering a factory matching warranty or something similar they are admitting their is a need and the piggyback (their own product does void the warranty)

I remain neutral on the issue - and am looking forward to what you have to share.

ps- I think BMS and their JB4 product is boss and I would choose their piggyback above any other, it's just this warranty issue that keeps coming up does not ring true to me especially with the competition and BMW saying otherwise, but my mind can be changed

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by itsglen

JB4 is a piggyback, Dinan also makes a piggyback (most would say comparable in terms of how they produce power etc...) and offers a matching factory warranty because they freely admit a piggyback voids the factory warranty. Their matching warranty is of course a selling point that they have leveraged for years. Because they admit to the community that a piggyback voids warranty - as does a flash.

No company is going to endorse warranty fraud. Pay for any damage you cause to your vehicle running in excess of the factory specifications. But the facts remain that flash tuning is easily detected (see link above) and good piggyback tuning like the JB4 does not leave a footprint behind.

Dinan voids your warranty because they provide your VIN to BMW after purchase triggering the warranty void, not because the system itself was detected, unless their system is just poorly designed. I've not looked at it much myself. For a piggyback to operate properly the vehicle can never be aware it's making more than the factory power, torque, or fuel levels, otherwise it will trigger faults and remain in limp mode.

Also the JB4 is not technically comparable to Dinan or Racechip, it makes power levels that can rival custom flash maps. Here is a dyno from our B58 Z4 running JB4, exhaust, and 40% E85 fuel. Almost 500hp to the wheels.

[itsglen]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

No company is going to endorse warranty fraud. Pay for any damage you cause to your vehicle running in excess of the factory specifications. But the facts remain that flash tuning is easily detected (see link above) and good piggyback tuning like the JB4 does not leave a footprint behind.

Dinan voids your warranty because they provide your VIN to BMW after purchase triggering the warranty void, not because the system itself was detected, unless their system is just poorly designed. I've not looked at it much myself. For a piggyback to operate properly the vehicle can never be aware it's making more than the factory power, torque, or fuel levels, otherwise it will trigger faults and remain in limp mode.

Also the JB4 is not technically comparable to Dinan or Racechip, it makes power levels that can rival custom flash maps. Here is a dyno from our B58 Z4 running JB4, exhaust, and 40% E85 fuel. Almost 500hp to the wheels.

I don't know in one hand I have BMW, my dealer, and some techs I've talked to that claim that they can indeed deduce that a piggyback (any brand) had been installed and then I have you saying no. So I'm not sure what to believe.

Question: Do you sell Burger, BMW, JB4 products - or is it only Burger that sells Fuel-it products.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by itsglen

I don't know in one hand I have BMW, my dealer, and some techs I've talked to that claim that they can indeed deduce that a piggyback (any brand) had been installed and then I have you saying no. So I'm not sure what to believe.

Question: Do you sell Burger, BMW, JB4 products - or is it only Burger that sells Fuel-it products.

If you search around the forums you'll find many instances of flash tunes flagged at the dealership and virtually no instances of JB4 flagged at the dealership. Most people who do get flagged with a JB4 either leave it on when going in, leave some other bolt on like downpipes or intake they fail to remove. Other people have been caught form social media posts linked back to their car, if you get in to a legal battle they can also subpoena your credit card statements to look for evidence of tuning, etc.

While the JB4 is isn't picked up in detection routines it's also a very reliable tuner. You can't do as much damage as you can with flash maps as you're working off the factory tables with it and it includes extra safety systems to keep things under control.

If you're the sort of customer who is going to be happy with $1500 for 40hp gained or whatever Dinan has to offer then I'd suggest you go that route. While they do void your BMW warranty at least you get a gap warranty you can rely on without having to be dishonest about it.

We offer what is on our website. Most of our customers are running flash maps from bootmod or MHD, many in conjunction with the JB4.

[itsglen]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

If you search around the forums you'll find many instances of flash tunes flagged at the dealership and virtually no instances of JB4 flagged at the dealership. Most people who do get flagged with a JB4 either leave it on when going in, leave some other bolt on like downpipes or intake they fail to remove. Other people have been caught form social media posts linked back to their car, if you get in to a legal battle they can also subpoena your credit card statements to look for evidence of tuning, etc.

While the JB4 is isn't picked up in detection routines it's also a very reliable tuner. You can't do as much damage as you can with flash maps as you're working off the factory tables with it and it includes extra safety systems to keep things under control.

If you're the sort of customer who is going to be happy with $1500 for 40hp gained or whatever Dinan has to offer then I'd suggest you go that route. While they do void your BMW warranty at least you get a gap warranty you can rely on without having to be dishonest about it.

We offer what is on our website. Most of our customers are running flash maps from bootmod or MHD, many in conjunction with the JB4.

While I appreciate your response - you keep skirting the issue and deflecting I ask about one thing and you post dyno results - I ask about another and you put up pricing. I make no mention of flash tunes in a recent post but you go down that path.

Every (maybe a few exceptions but not many) piggyback and flash tuner will readily admit that whether directly or indirectly their flashes or piggybacks void warranty. Thats why Dinan etc promote warranties - and no I did not have to send Dinan my VIN when I bought their product 4 BMWs ago ( not a dinan junkie - been there done that with almost all of the tuners - and with dinan has been a while so no bias - only bias is getting objective info out to the forum ). You seem to be on an island when it comes to this. Burger isn't even fighting the warranty issue as hard as you are.

I think most people on the forum get your point of view - the fact that you are biased and are a partner of Burger is cool - and i have to assume most take your rhetoric with a grain of salt but to those that are uninitiated I think it is not good practice to feed to new forum members your subjective opinion as objective fact (according to BMW techs) about a JB4 being free of concern when it comes to warranty work.

It's almost like you are doing burger a disservice, they are a great company with outstanding products, but as you continue to promote this anti-flash, pro piggyback won't void your warranty mantra (when everyone else including other piggyback makers and BMW themselves) are saying otherwise - you're shooting your credibility to crap. Why should anyone believe you when the entire industry and BMW itself is saying otherwise.

Fuel-it - great products! Burger - great products - I mean really great products! But perhaps we should move beyond this whole "keep warranty in place." I mean you posted a dyno of a car - it's simply not true that you could remove the downpipe and piggyback and put pump fuel in that car and challenge BMW to not know something was up - and expect them to not know. You are way too good at your game to know that is not true. Regular members know this is not true - and preying on new members will leave a sour taste in many peoples mouths - I have no horse in this race other than truth for the forum probably time to put your bias to bed. IMHO it's going to cost you more money than it's going to make you.

ps: anyone that is interested: Piggyback I would highly recommend JB4 - also in the arena AA and Race Chips (I think mike at x-ph is now selling an additional one - sorry forgot the name) Flash: Mission Performance, MHD, PTF, Carbauhn those are the majors but I'm sure their are others

[Fuel-It!]

I'm just stating the facts here on how detection works. BMW has been saying they can detect systems like the JB4 since 2008. I've clearly stated we don't endorse warranty fraud and think anyone operating their vehicle in excess of the factory specifications should pay for any damage they cause doing so.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with OPs question on JB4 preparation but I'd challenge you to post a link to other piggyback companies that claim their products are detectable and I'd be happy to technically analyze their product as to why they are being detected. Depending on the vehicle/ECU version some piggybacks don't have everything they'd need to be diagnostically invisible. For example most don't even have CANbus and thus can't monitor the DME's internal metrics or even clear shadow fault codes.

In terms of Dinan offering their gap warranty and reporting your VIN to BMW that's how it was a couple years ago. Maybe something changed since. You provide the VIN with flash maps or if using Dinatronics it reads the VIN out via CANbus automatically. Check with Dinan for specifics on how their system works and how that may apply to your situation.

[itsglen]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

I'm just stating the facts here on how detection works. BMW has been saying they can detect systems like the JB4 since 2008. I've clearly stated we don't endorse warranty fraud and think anyone operating their vehicle in excess of the factory specifications should pay for any damage they cause doing so.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with OPs question on JB4 preparation but I'd challenge you to post a link to other piggyback companies that claim their products are detectable and I'd be happy to technically analyze their product as to why they are being detected. Depending on the vehicle/ECU version some piggybacks don't have everything they'd need to be diagnostically invisible. For example most don't even have CANbus and thus can't monitor the DME's internal metrics or even clear shadow fault codes.

In terms of Dinan offering their gap warranty and reporting your VIN to BMW that's how it was a couple years ago. Maybe something changed since. You provide the VIN with flash maps or if using Dinatronics it reads the VIN out via CANbus automatically. Check with Dinan for specifics on how their system works and how that may apply to your situation.

Thank you for that, perhaps I should have been more direct so we don't continue to redirect or misdirect from my topic at hand. Let me be as direct as possible

1-if i showed up at a dealer with a JB4 installed can you guarantee - no warranty voided if I have an issue with some component failure
2-will you guarantee that your "dyno provided almost 500 hp car" if dropped off at the dealer or with BMW (or your shop - because you guys are super good - really) stripped of the DP, and JB4 and loaded with pump gas - could not be detected to have made anything more than baseline HP and TRQ?
3-is your shop able to reverse engineer if a piggyback has been applied to a vehicle or are you as blind as you claim BMW global to be?

A simple yes/no without redirect would be great

Listen you guys make great products (your BMW speed records are really impressive) but I'm not sure why as of the last couple months as a seller you keep pounding on this "warranty" issue while everyone else in the industry opposes that point. I mean find another sales angle - heritage - years in the business - easy install - etc...but trying to convince members warranty is a non issue is not cool IMHO. Unless you want to say "members ignore most all other tuners, other piggyback makers in the market & BMW" and listen to me...they all lie. Because that's kinda where we are at

[lonaman]

None of this has anything to do with my original post. Can I close this thread and let you two argue on another post?

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by itsglen

Thank you for that, perhaps I should have been more direct so we don't continue to redirect or misdirect from my topic at hand. Let me be as direct as possible

The questions have been asked and answered already. I'll leave you with this statement again.

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

No company is going to endorse warranty fraud. Pay for any damage you cause to your vehicle running in excess of the factory specifications. But the facts remain that flash tuning is easily detected (see link above) and good piggyback tuning like the JB4 does not leave a footprint behind.

[lonaman]

Originally Posted by chowser51

I forgot to check mine. I just did my plugs at 65k. I’m switching to 25k intervals from here on out.

This is for e90. I will try to see if it is the same for f30.

https://www.youcanic.com/guide/reset...rvice-reminder

When I cycle through the reset options using the ODO from the procedure you posted, spark plugs do not appear. Is there a different procedure?

[chowser51]

just checked mine, i don't see one for spark plugs either. i'll just remember to do them at 85k and coils and plugs at 100k

[Wires]

Originally Posted by itsglen

I don't know in one hand I have BMW, my dealer, and some techs I've talked to that claim that they can indeed deduce that a piggyback (any brand) had been installed and then I have you saying no. So I'm not sure what to believe.

Question: Do you sell Burger, BMW, JB4 products - or is it only Burger that sells Fuel-it products.

They can tell if a JB4 is installed if they look for it. The JB4 simply scales back the MAP / TMAP outputs so that the DME cranks boost pressure higher. It "thinks" its hitting one torque target, but it's actually reaching a much higher one. The DME doesn't see a boost pressure higher than stock (like a flash tune would produce), so that isn't flagged, BUT.... the fuel trims go through the roof in order to produce the power. And typically you bounce off the fuel cap, something that never happens stock.

So I GUARANTEE the dealership can tell you that put on a piggyback if they want to look for it. If you think they didn't put in extra error trap code to catch this after 13 years of piggybacks, that is just naive. Just saying...

[Fuel-It!]

Just saw this posted on the forums, BMW is auto flagging flash maps now when they plug in. I've never heard of this happening with a JB4. Just food for thought.