[Pruzina]

!!!SOLVED!!!

Hi first of all I have read every possible thread and watched all YT videos nothing helped me.

335i, 2007 (10/10/2006), 125k stock

The car was in running condition the battery seemed weak recently. One day the car didn't start so I jumped start it through the post in engine bay.

Next day I didn't try to start the car I just called tow truck to tow it to the shop for scheduled turbos installation. (note that I called the tow truck not due to battery problem but bcs the turbos where already that bad that the car was not drivable)

Next day I got a phone call from the mechanic to come that they can't start the car nor put it in neutral etc. (they didn't start to work on the car yet) I got there tried everything with no success so I ended up towing the car back home to have more time for my investigation.

Here are the symptoms
Car lock and unlock with the remote, lights, radio, windows, wipers, el. seats everything works just fine
when insert key in slot everything seems fine dash shows key symbol all good.
when I press the start button doesn't matter if with foot on the brake or not only airbag light light up no click from starter no other lights on dash which normally shows up it just doesn't turn on the ignition at all. Don't have second key to try but don't think could be a key.

Everything what I have tried.
-New battery - battery ended up be bad so i bought new one (I'm suspecting that whole the thing has something together with the dead battery)
-Checked:
-voltage everywhere all positive cables from battery all cables in engine bay all OK
-engine ground OK
-voltage at starter OK
-starter OK working good
-all fuses and relays
-disconnected IBS no change (currently not getting IBS fault codes but was getting prior this don't know if it was due to weak battery or if IBS is faulty but what I have read disconnected IBS should let the car start
-reset ELV counter no change

I'm pretty sure that I have tried more things I just can't remember at the moment.
Faulty codes using INSTA:
S0063 No communication possible with Amplifier
S0085 No communication possible with DSC
S0195 No communication possible with Telephone control unit
005088 EGS sensor, gearbox selector switch
00A3B2 Message error (terminal status, 0x130) receiver instrument panel, transmitter CAS
00A554 Instrument cluster: no message (telephone)
00A731 JBE: Supply, terminal 30g_f
00ABEA Radio connection to aerial diversity: Line disconection

2 errors in CAS
9A1A ELV_Kommunikation_Inhalt_Info_Fehler
9A3A Weiderholstrategie ELV Entriegeln fehlgeschlagen

Tow it to the dealer not considering as an option as I'm not willing to sponsor their experiments.

Any help suggestions opinion appreciated

!!! SOLVED !!!
Steering column lock was the problem. Ordered ELV emulator from eBay, connected and it fired right up.

[BashShah]

Sounds like the starter.
When they go, they just go, with very little warning.
Have you tried lightly tapping the starter and then immediately try to start the car?

Look at your intake Manifold. second last opening. If you look straight down, you should be able to see the starter, I took a 6 inch and 3 inch socket extensions and placed it on the starter, then hit it very lightly with a hammer.
When you drive a nail in a wood, you start with a light tap on the nail, that much tapping.
also, make sure you jump start it, cause you make have a low battery.

just curious, how do you know the starter is good and working?

[Pruzina]

Originally Posted by BashShah

make sure you jump start it, cause you make have a low battery.

just curious, how do you know the starter is good and working?

The battery is brand new. That was the first thing I replaced.

Disconnected wire from the starter and applied 12v.

[lookalikehuuh]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

The battery is brand new. That was the first thing I replaced.

Disconnected wire from the starter and applied 12v.

yeah its probably still the starter... in these cars they have good ways to fail internally pretty catastrophically. Plus its a known issue on this entire platform.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

... 335i, 2007, 125k stock...
Here are the symptoms
Car lock and unlock with the remote, lights, radio, windows, wipers, el. seats everything works just fine
when insert key in slot everything seems fine dash shows key symbol all good.
when I press the start button doesn't matter if with foot on the brake or not only airbag light light up no click from starter no other lights on dash which normally shows up it just doesn't turn on the ignition at all. Don't have second key to try but don't think could be a key.
Faulty codes using INSTA:
...
005088 EGS sensor, gearbox selector switch
00A3B2 Message error (terminal status, 0x130) receiver instrument panel, transmitter CAS
...
2 errors in CAS
9A1A ELV_Kommunikation_Inhalt_Info_Fehler
9A3A Weiderholstrategie ELV Entriegeln fehlgeschlagen

Do you have INPA or ISTA? I use INPA, and that will show you if Transmission is correctly reporting P/N signal to enable CAS to Activate the Starter. It will ALSO show you if Brake Switch Signal is received by CAS.

It will show you "Terminal" Activation:
1) Terminal 15 should be active when Ignition is ON;
2) Terminal 50 should be active during starter cranking;
3) INPA also has ELV diagnostics, but my late 2007 328xi does NOT have ELV, so I can't offer any advice on how to use that.

It sounds like either the Transmission/Gear Selector is NOT sending P/N signal, OR the ELV is preventing CAS from sending the 12V+ Activation signal to the Starter. INPA should quickly show you what Inputs are being received by CAS and confirm that Terminal 50 is NOT being activated (Start signal to Starter Solenoid from CAS).

QUESTIONS:

1) Does Instrument Panel light up in normal fashion when you put remote in Insert Compartment & Press START, WITHOUT pressing Brake Pedal (Ignition ON)? Your description above suggests that it does NOT?

2) Can you move shift lever from Park to Neutral with foot on Brake & Ignition ON?

3) Does Gear Selected Display on EITHER the Instrument Cluster, OR the Gear Display Light to left of Selector Lever?

Please let us know what you find,
George

[Pruzina]

1) no it does no that's why I'm thinking that it should not be starter. When starter is busted it usually at least light up the cluster and then fail to start.

2) no I Can't as the ignition is not activated and shift lever is blocked bcs of that

3) nothing on the instrument cluster, it is showing P at the shift lever

watch the video.

[Pruzina]

Originally Posted by lookalikehuuh

yeah its probably still the starter... in these cars they have good ways to fail internally pretty catastrophically. Plus its a known issue on this entire platform.

Okay but it turned over the engine when I applied 12v to the starter. and also I think the instrument cluster would at least light up. At least that is what I saw in every single video on Youtube showing failed starter

[BashShah]

ok, Now I agree with Bgalthrop, do you have INPA?
if not try to get it.

[Pruzina]

just bought it couple days back to solve this problem. I'm still learning how to use it but I'll definitely try your suggestion tomorrow.

But again if there would be issue with brake switch or shift lever switch or anything like that yes CAS would not let you start the car but you would be still able to light up dash board "accessories mode"

[gbalthrop]

Attached are Seven Screens from INPA which can be used to diagnose "NO Crank issues.
ALL 7 screens are after connecting to CAS & selecting F5, Status in CAS Main Menu.
KL = Terminal:
1) F5 > F1 > F2 Status Terminal Control, showing Brake, Gear Position (P/N) & ELV Unlocked (Brake pressed)
2) F5 > F2 > F1 Terminals, NO key yet inserted, just open door & connect INPA; KL30G Active
3) F5 > F2 > F1 Terminals, Key inserted; KLR - Radio now active
4) F5 > F2 > F1 Terminals, Key, Ignition (START/NO Brake); KL15 now active
5) F5 > F2 > F1 Terminals, Key, Ignition, Brake pressed & START; KL50 briefly active during Starter Crank
6) F5 > F5 > F1 ELV Identification (NO ELV on US Vehicles built after 3/1/2007, so "00"
7) F5 > F5 > F2 ELV Values; NO ELV on mine so "Result NOT Available" = "Ergebnis nicht verfügbar"

George

[Pruzina]

Thx man. You made a big effort I appreciate it. I'm going to try and I'll report back with results.

[Pruzina]

Here is what I've got. I'm not expert but something is telling me that the damn ELV is the culprit but maybe I'm wrong.

and I should add that the car is 2007 but production date 10.10.2006 so possiblly has steering lock. But the steering is not locked neither with or without key presented.

[Pruzina]

And some extra screenshots I took.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

Here is what I've got. I'm not expert but something is telling me that the damn ELV is the culprit but maybe I'm wrong. [The ELV itself, or perhaps the wiring between the ELV (M137a) & Connector X13376 at the CAS, as shown in this TIS wiring diagram, assuming you do NOT have active steering:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-lock/uJJFO9T]
and I should add that the car is 2007 but production date 10.10.2006 so possibly has steering lock. But the steering is not locked neither with or without key presented.

According to Bentley, E9x sold in US, with build dates through December 2006, with automatic transmission, had ELV (Electric Steering Lock). You say the Steering NEVER Locks? I presume you never get the Steering Wheel with Padlock Warning Icon on the Instrument Cluster, as shown in the attached ScreenPrint from Bentley, page 003-16, page 25 of pdf. I don't have ELV, so have never paid any attention to it, or tried to understand how it works, but the attached page from Bentley gives some clues.

What appears pertinent to me is this part of the Bentley description:

Check that the key holder locks the key in position, and that the steering lock unlocks (an audible "clunk" can be heard when the key
is inserted).
NOTE-
• Terminal KL 15 is not released unless the steering is unlocked,
and CAS has received the "unlocked" telegram.
• ELV makes three attempts to unlock. A whirring sound can be
heard at each attempt.

So it appears that KL15 (Ignition) does NOT activate when you press START unless the ELV UNLOCKED when you put Remote Key in Insert Compartment (and heard a "clunk").

NONE of your "Status CAS Diagnose Terminals/Ignition" screens show any activation of KL15/Ignition, and your Instrument Cluster does NOT light. NONE of those screens show ANY voltage for "Voltage KL30_ELV", AND your FIRST screen (digital circles showing Terminal Status) does NOT have the ELV Release circle filled.

I'm confused by ONE CAS Fehlerspeicher (Fault Memory) screen showing "No Error Found", and then 12 seconds later, you have TWO Fault Codes. Had you cleared those two codes and they came back after 3 attempts to unlock?

The two Fault Codes are BOTH currently present at 3:37:52 PM today, and NEITHER would cause a warning light. 9A1A, "ELV Kommunikation Inhalt Info Fehler" = ELV communication content info error, No Signal Or Value (kein Signal oder Wert). That means the CAS Module is NOT receiving the necessary signal from the ELV, so is NOT activating Terminal 15 (Ignition).

That is essentially an "Immobilizer Function". Your other CAS Fault Code, 9A3A, "Weiderholstrategie ELV Entriegeln fehlgeschlagen" = Repeat strategy ELV unlocking failed. So I would check the connectors & wiring between ELV & CAS, and search for threads dealing with ELV malfunction.

Your last screen, Status ELV Values (Werte) shows an error message, "Job Not Found". Try selecting "Yes" to Continue Script Processing, and see if any helpful data/values appear.

ANYONE with a model built in 2006 which has ELV who can help here? If you furnish the last 7 characters of your VIN, we can try to find a part# for the ELV.

George

[Pruzina]

oh Man you told me that many informations that I don't even know where to start

First of all wiring diagrams are in my eyes just mess of lines and numbers have no idea how to read in them.


I'm not sure right now if it never lock but I think it doesn't. But definitely with the key in I can turn the steering wheel however I want so the lock is not in place. And I do some noise from steering column when I insert the key and while after I remove the key. But the lock doesn't engage. Weird. But I'm getting yellow icon as shown bellow but I was not really putting attention too it as I was getting it before and I thought that it means that the steering wheel is unlocked. I was trying to find meaning of this icon and weird enough there is nothing about that in Bentley manual or online. NEVER got red icon never padlock. But symptoms are exactly the same as people with red padlock icon. That is why I was trying to reset ELV counter.
It really looks there is going to be SOME issue connected to ELV.

I'm confused by ONE CAS Fehlerspeicher (Fault Memory) screen showing "No Error Found", and then 12 seconds later, you have TWO Fault Codes. Had you cleared those two codes and they came back after 3 attempts to unlock?

No look carefully one pic is ERROR MEMORY and second INFORMATION MEMORY
honestly I don't know the difference. But if I try to clear the memory the codes are still there

That means the CAS Module is NOT receiving the necessary signal from the ELV, so is NOT activating Terminal 15 (Ignition)

Sounds to me like CAS things that the Steering lock is still locked or getting wrong or no signal from ELV right?

So I would check the connectors & wiring between ELV & CAS, and search for threads dealing with ELV malfunction.

I'll try to look for the wires and read through some threads about ELV. I already did but I'll go deeper.

Your last screen, Status ELV Values (Werte) shows an error message, "Job Not Found". Try selecting "Yes" to Continue Script Processing, and see if any helpful data/values appear.

I was trying that. If I press YES the message reappear NO doesn't make any difference. I don't know if it is problem with my insta which acts weird or if ista is unable to connect

ANYONE with a model built in 2006 which has ELV who can help here? If you furnish the last 7 characters of your VIN, we can try to find a part# for the ELV.

PLS any help appreciate. Two brand new turbos waiting in my living room ready for action.
VIN PA87677

[Pruzina]

!!! SOLVED !!!
Steering column lock was the problem. Ordered ELV emulator from eBay, connected and it fired right up.

Thanks to all of you who tried to help and specially big thanks to gbalthrop , thanks to you I was investigating right thing.

[alexchvzr]

Originally Posted by Pruzina

!!!SOLVED!!!

Hi first of all I have read every possible thread and watched all YT videos nothing helped me.

335i, 2007 (10/10/2006), 125k stock

The car was in running condition the battery seemed weak recently. One day the car didn't start so I jumped start it through the post in engine bay.

Next day I didn't try to start the car I just called tow truck to tow it to the shop for scheduled turbos installation. (note that I called the tow truck not due to battery problem but bcs the turbos where already that bad that the car was not drivable)

Next day I got a phone call from the mechanic to come that they can't start the car nor put it in neutral etc. (they didn't start to work on the car yet) I got there tried everything with no success so I ended up towing the car back home to have more time for my investigation.

Here are the symptoms
Car lock and unlock with the remote, lights, radio, windows, wipers, el. seats everything works just fine
when insert key in slot everything seems fine dash shows key symbol all good.
when I press the start button doesn't matter if with foot on the brake or not only airbag light light up no click from starter no other lights on dash which normally shows up it just doesn't turn on the ignition at all. Don't have second key to try but don't think could be a key.

Everything what I have tried.
-New battery - battery ended up be bad so i bought new one (I'm suspecting that whole the thing has something together with the dead battery)
-Checked:
-voltage everywhere all positive cables from battery all cables in engine bay all OK
-engine ground OK
-voltage at starter OK
-starter OK working good
-all fuses and relays
-disconnected IBS no change (currently not getting IBS fault codes but was getting prior this don't know if it was due to weak battery or if IBS is faulty but what I have read disconnected IBS should let the car start
-reset ELV counter no change

I'm pretty sure that I have tried more things I just can't remember at the moment.
Faulty codes using INSTA:
S0063 No communication possible with Amplifier
S0085 No communication possible with DSC
S0195 No communication possible with Telephone control unit
005088 EGS sensor, gearbox selector switch
00A3B2 Message error (terminal status, 0x130) receiver instrument panel, transmitter CAS
00A554 Instrument cluster: no message (telephone)
00A731 JBE: Supply, terminal 30g_f
00ABEA Radio connection to aerial diversity: Line disconection

2 errors in CAS
9A1A ELV_Kommunikation_Inhalt_Info_Fehler
9A3A Weiderholstrategie ELV Entriegeln fehlgeschlagen

Tow it to the dealer not considering as an option as I'm not willing to sponsor their experiments.

Any help suggestions opinion appreciated

!!! SOLVED !!!
Steering column lock was the problem. Ordered ELV emulator from eBay, connected and it fired right up.

Can you share what ELV emulator did you buy?

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by alexchvzr

Can you share what ELV emulator did you buy?

I had a similar issue with the ELV and used this one:

https://www.lacartech.com/products/e...277206f4&_ss=r

I have zero affiliation with this company but chose them because they offered local pickup. They are a legit shop and very knowledgeable, answered a few questions I had. I had this emulator on my 325i for a long time without issue. I figured I'd try the emulator route and if that stopped working I'd remove the original steering lock and clean it up so it works but that hasn't happened yet. 5 years on the emulator and it's still working well.

Just make sure if you install this you can get the original steering lock to unlock, then disconnect (unplug) it while it's unlocked.