[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Hey so this morning I got my first BMW electrical gremlin. Cheers to that I guess.

I was changing my wipers and noticed my bi xenons headlights were on and flickering even though in off position. Got in the car and also then noticed my indicator wouldn't work only for the passenger side and my passenger window was throwing a anti trap error in iDrive. It would only operate by like half an inch every time I pressed the button. Here are the codes I pulled from the car. I went for a drive and issues still present. When I came back, cleared codes now indicator was working but still getting the code in FRM.

I tried the window initialization procedure didn't really do anything. I went through the INPA test plans and both conclude FRM to be replaced but before I pay for a new FRM at like 500$ I wanted to ask if anyone had any other pointers. I also suspect maybe my battery because about 1-2 months ago I accidentally told in INPA I replaced the battery. So the car thinks the battery is new. Could this really be the issue? I know "bad" batteries cause issues but my battery has been going strong, but maybe since the car thinks it's new it could be fucky?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

... my indicator wouldn't work only for the passenger side and my passenger window was throwing a anti trap error in iDrive. It would only operate by like half an inch every time I pressed the button. Here are the codes I pulled from the car. [931E & 9CCC]... I went through the INPA [I presume you mean ISTA] test plans and both conclude FRM to be replaced [Can't imagine that "conclusion" with those two codes & symptoms as you describe]
...I also suspect maybe my battery because about 1-2 months ago I accidentally told in INPA [or ISTA?] I replaced the battery. So the car thinks the battery is new. [The car doesn't think (YOU have to do that ;-), and "Batteritausch Registrieren" or Battery Registration ONLY enters the Odometer reading at the moment you press the Function Key] Could this really be the issue? [NO]...

What is YOUR FRM "SGBD" or Variant Code? Is it FRM_70, or FRM_87?
Assuming it is FRM_70, then the Code Definitions you show are consistent with BMW Fault Code Lookup (AND the two performance faults: R Turn Signal & Passenger Door Window):
931E | FRM: Analogue switch, steering column, direction indicator, right, faulty | frm_70
9CCC | FRM: Relay, power window, passenger's door, faulty | frm_70

If everything was OK until it wasn't -- BOTH R Turn indicator & Passenger Window Faults occurred at SAME mileage (check Freeze Frame Data), then it is UNLIKELY that faults occurred in TWO different components at the same time. The component those two systems have in common is Connector X14261 at the FRM. Here are TIS circuit diagrams for Power Window Outputs and Turn Signals, as well as Installation Location & Connector View for X14261:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tlputs/bgZmz0r
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...cator/CkU9Oy6T
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/L0YcQ4X5
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/CT8cjuV2

I have NOT used ISTA, but INPA will test BOTH INPUTS & OUTPUTS, switch input signals to FRM, and FRM Output wiring to window motor or turn signal bulbs.

What happens when you move turn signal stalk to R-turn position? Do ANY lights light, front, rear or side? What happens when you push Hazard Switch to flash all indicators?

Does the Passenger door window operate the SAME whether using driver door Switch Cluster, or Passenger Door Switch? If same operation regardless of switch input, then the output connector/ wiring is suspect. I would start by inspecting Connector X14261 at the FRM, particularly the pins/ sockets related to the RF Window & Turn Indicator Light, cleaning the pins/ sockets and reassembling.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

What is YOUR FRM "SGBD" or Variant Code? Is it FRM_70, or FRM_87?
Assuming it is FRM_70, then the Code Definitions you show are consistent with BMW Fault Code Lookup (AND the two performance faults: R Turn Signal & Passenger Door Window):
931E | FRM: Analogue switch, steering column, direction indicator, right, faulty | frm_70
9CCC | FRM: Relay, power window, passenger's door, faulty | frm_70

If everything was OK until it wasn't -- BOTH R Turn indicator & Passenger Window Faults occurred at SAME mileage (check Freeze Frame Data), then it is UNLIKELY that faults occurred in TWO different components at the same time. The component those two systems have in common is Connector X14261 at the FRM. Here are TIS circuit diagrams for Power Window Outputs and Turn Signals, as well as Installation Location & Connector View for X14261:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tlputs/bgZmz0r
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...cator/CkU9Oy6T
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/L0YcQ4X5
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/CT8cjuV2

I have NOT used ISTA, but INPA will test BOTH INPUTS & OUTPUTS, switch input signals to FRM, and FRM Output wiring to window motor or turn signal bulbs.

What happens when you move turn signal stalk to R-turn position? Do ANY lights light, front, rear or side? What happens when you push Hazard Switch to flash all indicators?

Does the Passenger door window operate the SAME whether using driver door Switch Cluster, or Passenger Door Switch? If same operation regardless of switch input, then the output connector/ wiring is suspect. I would start by inspecting Connector X14261 at the FRM, particularly the pins/ sockets related to the RF Window & Turn Indicator Light, cleaning the pins/ sockets and reassembling.

Please let us know what you find,
George

Yeah I think it's frm_70.

When I moved turn signal stock to right turn simply nothing was happening, not lights nothing. Hazards were still working as normal. But like I said now the code is still there but my signals are working perfectly fine now compared to before. Good call on checking pin condition maybe something rusty or dirty I will check that when checking

Yeah passenger door window operate the same on both switches.

I just learned there is a warranty on FRM lasting 10 years which would expire april coming up. My plan was to diagnose as per ISTA's test plan since I think that is what dealer will do, the results of that diagnosis was to replace the FRM if voltage was reaching it properly. I'm a super noob and just starting to learn wiring diagrams because of this issue but as I understand to test my FRM's voltage supply I need to find the appropriate pin of connector X14261 and multi meter that? That way, if I can diagnose issue for dealer, I don't risk paying money for nothing since if the problem is warranty should be free right.

So alright, I will check pins to see if they look fine and I will also be probing the 12v one, if you can point me on the right pin I'd appreciate, the diagrams have been giving me a bit of a headache and someone to confirm what I am understanding would be nice. Thanks!

When the diagram shows for example 30<81 does that mean that line represents pins 30 and 81? In the case of red wire 30 is ground and 81 is the voltage one or I'm reading this wrong.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

What is YOUR FRM "SGBD" or Variant Code? Is it FRM_70, or FRM_87?
Assuming it is FRM_70, then the Code Definitions you show are consistent with BMW Fault Code Lookup (AND the two performance faults: R Turn Signal & Passenger Door Window):
931E | FRM: Analogue switch, steering column, direction indicator, right, faulty | frm_70
9CCC | FRM: Relay, power window, passenger's door, faulty | frm_70

If everything was OK until it wasn't -- BOTH R Turn indicator & Passenger Window Faults occurred at SAME mileage (check Freeze Frame Data), then it is UNLIKELY that faults occurred in TWO different components at the same time. The component those two systems have in common is Connector X14261 at the FRM. Here are TIS circuit diagrams for Power Window Outputs and Turn Signals, as well as Installation Location & Connector View for X14261:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tlputs/bgZmz0r
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...cator/CkU9Oy6T
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/L0YcQ4X5
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...s-cou/CT8cjuV2

I have NOT used ISTA, but INPA will test BOTH INPUTS & OUTPUTS, switch input signals to FRM, and FRM Output wiring to window motor or turn signal bulbs.

What happens when you move turn signal stalk to R-turn position? Do ANY lights light, front, rear or side? What happens when you push Hazard Switch to flash all indicators?

Does the Passenger door window operate the SAME whether using driver door Switch Cluster, or Passenger Door Switch? If same operation regardless of switch input, then the output connector/ wiring is suspect. I would start by inspecting Connector X14261 at the FRM, particularly the pins/ sockets related to the RF Window & Turn Indicator Light, cleaning the pins/ sockets and reassembling.

Please let us know what you find,
George

Also any comments regarding my battery thing? Do you think it could be culprit or not at all?

It's a odd issue I have if it's FRM module it seems usually there is way more electrical issues associated with that.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

... Yeah passenger door window operate the same on both switches... just starting to learn wiring diagrams because of this issue but as I understand to test my FRM's voltage supply I need to find the appropriate pin of connector X14261 and multi meter that?... the diagrams have been giving me a bit of a headache and someone to confirm what I am understanding would be nice. Thanks!

[1] When the diagram shows for example 30<81 does that mean that line represents pins 30 and 81? In the case of red wire 30 is ground and 81 is the voltage one or I'm reading this wrong.

I would encourage ANYONE who is interested in understanding the basics of how different circuits work, from lighting to Activation and Control of a Component, such as a Window Motor, to spend an hour or two reviewing the TWO attachments (Conventions and Symbols -- From Bentley) along with the TIS Power Window Outputs Schematic linked below, to get an idea of HOW MUCH information is provided by a TIS Schematic or wiring diagram, and how to learn to use that information.

The TIS circuits I linked yesterday WORKED yesterday, BUT today there's an Error Notification and the page doesn't work properly. SOOO here's a link to a page for 2010 E92 that DOES work, at least at the moment:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tlputs/bgZmz0r

Reading a circuit diagram is rather like reading a roadmap: you have to realize that certain conventions are used. North is up on map; current runs from (+) power supply on top of Diagram to (-) Ground on Bottom of diagram. Like a map, TIS Schematics have a LOT of Symbols, and you have to spend a bit of time understanding WHAT those symbols stand for.

Let's start with the diagram linked above, and your question about "30<81":

[1] Questions re TIS Schematic Conventions & Symbols:

(A) Look at the top-right of the diagram, since Power Supply (+) is at the top of the schematic. It shows two fuses, F81 (30A or 30 Amp capacity) and F41, also 30A capacity. The "30" above the Fuse Symbol indicates "Terminal 30". Terminal 30 is UNswitched Battery Power, connected directly to the Positive Battery Post, WITHOUT any relay or switch between the Fuse & (+) battery terminal.

So "30" above F81 & F41 means those particular fuses are powered DIRECTLY by the battery. You do NOT have to turn on ignition ("Terminal 15") to have 12V+ at that fuse socket. The BMW electrical system has other "Terminals" or relay-switched power supplies. Here are "simplified" descriptions:

i) Terminal R = Radio (when you put Remote Key in Insert Compartment)
ii) Terminal 15 = Ignition (when you press START with Remote Key inserted)
iii) Terminal 30G = Accessory, such as Climate Control Blower (comes on when Ignition/START activated)
iv) Terminal 87 = items that need to run briefly after Ignition OFF; Terminal active for several minutes AFTER STOP
v) Terminal 30g_f = bi-stable relay; NOT present on all models; used to shut down electrical consumers when required
vi) Terminal 50: Active ONLY during Starter Cranking

INPA or ISTA can show you the status/Voltage of ALL/Most of those Terminals. Here is the more complicated TIS Functional Description of "Terminal Control":
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...gnosis/YEnzRWx

(B) Sooo, back to your question about "30<81"
The 30<81 to the right of the Red wire simply designates the Source or Supply of Voltage in that wire: Terminal 30 or battery power < VIA F81 or Fuse 81 (in the JB Junction Box Fuse Panel). The other numbers/ hieroglyphics below F81 at that point:

i) X11009 in BLUE is Connector X11009; if you click on that Component Code, you can see WHERE it is located (Installation Location) and "Connector View" showing WHAT the connector looks like including Pin Number designations. Here is Connector View of X11009 (6 sockets):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-cou/CSojAMRu

ii) "3" to the Left of the Connector Code indicates that the Red wire is Pin #3 of Connector X11009, so it is bottom-left in the "View" above.

iii) "4.0" below the Power Supply 30<81 is an indication of wire size, expressed in square millimeters (mm2). Scroll down to the Motor (M23) diagram & Note that the two wires that supply current to the Motor are each 2.5 mm2, while the 3 control wires in the motor connector are each .35 mm2.

iv) German-speakers can tell the function of a wire by the Acronym beside the wire. As for the M23 Motor 5-pin Connector (X744), my SWAG is that:
M = Motor (All electric motors have M prefix)
F = Window (Fenster)
B = Passenger (Beifahrer)
K = Control (Kontrolle)

Any window or seat motor is operated in either direction by simply changing "polarity" or direction of DC Current Flow, so if you had to test window motor function of M23, you could simply apply battery current to Pins #5 & #6 of connector X744, reversing polarity (+) & (-) to change direction of window movement (Up/Down).

My SWAG is that the 3 small control wires are for motor control (NOT Power Supply which is via TWO larger wires) and "Anti-Pinch/ Trap" feedback, and that the cause of the abbreviated movement is that Bogus "Anti-Pinch" signal, perhaps due to corroded Connector, is interrupting normal window operation. BTW, did you Delete previous window intialization BEFORE you tried to initialize, per Bentley, 512-19, page 692 of pdf? If you had an intermittent or temporary wiring/connector fault, you might have to do that to essentially clear the FRM so it will take the new initialization. Did you check to see if BOTH codes are NOW Present as was previously shown on the ISTA screen you posted? If the R Turn Indicator NOW works, I would at least expect that fault (931E) to no longer be "Present".

v) Wire Colors are shown by German Abbreviation, where RT is abbreviation for "Rot" = Red, and GE is abbreviation for "Gelb" = Yellow. Where there are TWO color abbreviations, as in "RT/GE", the first color (Red) is the Primary color of the wire, and the second color (Yellow) is the tracer or stripe color. There are 9 different Colors used by BMW, and those colors and German abbreviations are shown in the attached "Symbols" jpg.

I never had any formal Electrical training or Automotive Electrical System training or experience, other than reading things like Bentley, TIS & general concepts, so if someone with more advanced training/ experience sees anything wrong with anything stated above, please enlighten us.

George

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Also any comments regarding my battery thing? Do you think it could be culprit or not at all?
It's a odd issue I have if it's FRM module it seems usually there is way more electrical issues associated with that.

The battery seems to be blamed for MOST electrical faults when, in fact, it is RARELY to be blamed. If the SAME electrical malfunction occurs with engine running, and system voltage in the 14V range (as can be confirmed by Multimeter or Hidden Menu 9.00), it almost certainly has NOTHING to do with the battery. That is particularly true in your case with the (1) Right-side Turn Signal Inoperative (mysteriously correcting itself ;-), and (2) Passenger Window Motor "Inch-at-a-time" operation.

BTW, does the window go DOWN normally, or is the spastic operation the same in BOTH up/down operation?

I'm NO EXPERT on FRM module function, or on WHAT causes an FRM module to fail and in what failure modes. You can theoretically have a bad solder joint or PCB (Printed Circuit Board) failure at most any point on the board, and that can affect MANY or even ALL functions, or just ONE input or output, depending upon nature/ location of fault.

In YOUR case, I would agree with your assessment that there would "normally" be way more issues than the two limited & apparently unrelated issues you describe. That is what made me initially focus on the X14261 connector at the FRM, as that has wires for BOTH R Turn Signal & R Window function/ control. That is particularly true given that Turn Signal Function returned with NO human intervention.

While you CAN have loose/intermittent connections in a Module, such as from a bad solder joint, a loose or corroded connection or intermittent wiring contact OUTSIDE the Module should be examined BEFORE spending Hundred$. As cars get older, disconnecting, cleaning (with Electronic Contact Cleaner) and reassembly can often cure "Gremlins" that a shop doesn't understand, or doesn't want to take the time trying to find, OR explaining to you. Cleaning X14261 will give you some "Hands-On" experience.

George

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I would encourage ANYONE who is interested in understanding the basics of how different circuits work, from lighting to Activation and Control of a Component, such as a Window Motor, to spend an hour or two reviewing the TWO attachments (Conventions and Symbols -- From Bentley) along with the TIS Power Window Outputs Schematic linked below, to get an idea of HOW MUCH information is provided by a TIS Schematic or wiring diagram, and how to learn to use that information.

The TIS circuits I linked yesterday WORKED yesterday, BUT today there's an Error Notification and the page doesn't work properly. SOOO here's a link to a page for 2010 E92 that DOES work, at least at the moment:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tlputs/bgZmz0r

Reading a circuit diagram is rather like reading a roadmap: you have to realize that certain conventions are used. North is up on map; current runs from (+) power supply on top of Diagram to (-) Ground on Bottom of diagram. Like a map, TIS Schematics have a LOT of Symbols, and you have to spend a bit of time understanding WHAT those symbols stand for.

Let's start with the diagram linked above, and your question about "30<81":

[1] Questions re TIS Schematic Conventions & Symbols:

(A) Look at the top-right of the diagram, since Power Supply (+) is at the top of the schematic. It shows two fuses, F81 (30A or 30 Amp capacity) and F41, also 30A capacity. The "30" above the Fuse Symbol indicates "Terminal 30". Terminal 30 is UNswitched Battery Power, connected directly to the Positive Battery Post, WITHOUT any relay or switch between the Fuse & (+) battery terminal.

So "30" above F81 & F41 means those particular fuses are powered DIRECTLY by the battery. You do NOT have to turn on ignition ("Terminal 15") to have 12V+ at that fuse socket. The BMW electrical system has other "Terminals" or relay-switched power supplies. Here are "simplified" descriptions:

i) Terminal R = Radio (when you put Remote Key in Insert Compartment)
ii) Terminal 15 = Ignition (when you press START with Remote Key inserted)
iii) Terminal 30G = Accessory, such as Climate Control Blower (comes on when Ignition/START activated)
iv) Terminal 87 = items that need to run briefly after Ignition OFF; Terminal active for several minutes AFTER STOP
v) Terminal 30g_f = bi-stable relay; NOT present on all models; used to shut down electrical consumers when required
vi) Terminal 50: Active ONLY during Starter Cranking

INPA or ISTA can show you the status/Voltage of ALL/Most of those Terminals. Here is the more complicated TIS Functional Description of "Terminal Control":
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...gnosis/YEnzRWx

(B) Sooo, back to your question about "30<81"
The 30<81 to the right of the Red wire simply designates the Source or Supply of Voltage in that wire: Terminal 30 or battery power < VIA F81 or Fuse 81 (in the JB Junction Box Fuse Panel). The other numbers/ hieroglyphics below F81 at that point:

i) X11009 in BLUE is Connector X11009; if you click on that Component Code, you can see WHERE it is located (Installation Location) and "Connector View" showing WHAT the connector looks like including Pin Number designations. Here is Connector View of X11009 (6 sockets):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-cou/CSojAMRu

ii) "3" to the Left of the Connector Code indicates that the Red wire is Pin #3 of Connector X11009, so it is bottom-left in the "View" above.

iii) "4.0" below the Power Supply 30<81 is an indication of wire size, expressed in square millimeters (mm2). Scroll down to the Motor (M23) diagram & Note that the two wires that supply current to the Motor are each 2.5 mm2, while the 3 control wires in the motor connector are each .35 mm2.

iv) German-speakers can tell the function of a wire by the Acronym beside the wire. As for the M23 Motor 5-pin Connector (X744), my SWAG is that:
M = Motor (All electric motors have M prefix)
F = Window (Fenster)
B = Passenger (Beifahrer)
K = Control (Kontrolle)

Any window or seat motor is operated in either direction by simply changing "polarity" or direction of DC Current Flow, so if you had to test window motor function of M23, you could simply apply battery current to Pins #5 & #6 of connector X744, reversing polarity (+) & (-) to change direction of window movement (Up/Down).

My SWAG is that the 3 small control wires are for motor control (NOT Power Supply which is via TWO larger wires) and "Anti-Pinch/ Trap" feedback, and that the cause of the abbreviated movement is that Bogus "Anti-Pinch" signal, perhaps due to corroded Connector, is interrupting normal window operation. BTW, did you Delete previous window intialization BEFORE you tried to initialize, per Bentley, 512-19, page 692 of pdf? If you had an intermittent or temporary wiring/connector fault, you might have to do that to essentially clear the FRM so it will take the new initialization. Did you check to see if BOTH codes are NOW Present as was previously shown on the ISTA screen you posted? If the R Turn Indicator NOW works, I would at least expect that fault (931E) to no longer be "Present".

v) Wire Colors are shown by German Abbreviation, where RT is abbreviation for "Rot" = Red, and GE is abbreviation for "Gelb" = Yellow. Where there are TWO color abbreviations, as in "RT/GE", the first color (Red) is the Primary color of the wire, and the second color (Yellow) is the tracer or stripe color. There are 9 different Colors used by BMW, and those colors and German abbreviations are shown in the attached "Symbols" jpg.

I never had any formal Electrical training or Automotive Electrical System training or experience, other than reading things like Bentley, TIS & general concepts, so if someone with more advanced training/ experience sees anything wrong with anything stated above, please enlighten us.

George

Ok thanks for that load of information. Helps me understand better.

So to start my reply, I got in the car this morning and wanted to see if issue still present and the window was working perfectly fine lol... anyways I ended up probing pins 1 and 3 of the connector X14261 baed on pin readout in ISTA (ISTA shows that is the one bringing the fuse) as well and was getting good readings, about 11.59v when terminal 15 activated and about 14.59 ish volts when car running.

To answer the questions you asked in this reply, yes I had delete the old window initilizastion by rolling it fully down and holding button down for 20s. Even though the indicator was now working, the code was still there and eventually it was non existent, but it stayed there and existent YES for some time before going to NO. Window was always there, except this morning.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

The battery seems to be blamed for MOST electrical faults when, in fact, it is RARELY to be blamed. If the SAME electrical malfunction occurs with engine running, and system voltage in the 14V range (as can be confirmed by Multimeter or Hidden Menu 9.00), it almost certainly has NOTHING to do with the battery. That is particularly true in your case with the (1) Right-side Turn Signal Inoperative (mysteriously correcting itself ;-), and (2) Passenger Window Motor "Inch-at-a-time" operation.

BTW, does the window go DOWN normally, or is the spastic operation the same in BOTH up/down operation?

I'm NO EXPERT on FRM module function, or on WHAT causes an FRM module to fail and in what failure modes. You can theoretically have a bad solder joint or PCB (Printed Circuit Board) failure at most any point on the board, and that can affect MANY or even ALL functions, or just ONE input or output, depending upon nature/ location of fault.

In YOUR case, I would agree with your assessment that there would "normally" be way more issues than the two limited & apparently unrelated issues you describe. That is what made me initially focus on the X14261 connector at the FRM, as that has wires for BOTH R Turn Signal & R Window function/ control. That is particularly true given that Turn Signal Function returned with NO human intervention.

While you CAN have loose/intermittent connections in a Module, such as from a bad solder joint, a loose or corroded connection or intermittent wiring contact OUTSIDE the Module should be examined BEFORE spending Hundred$. As cars get older, disconnecting, cleaning (with Electronic Contact Cleaner) and reassembly can often cure "Gremlins" that a shop doesn't understand, or doesn't want to take the time trying to find, OR explaining to you. Cleaning X14261 will give you some "Hands-On" experience.

George

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Yeah the window acts the same way either up or down.

I took out the module today and probed like said in the past post but I forgot to shoot some contact cleaner in there... oh well.

I also looked at the board for fun and couldn't find any loose points.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

... I got in the car this morning and wanted to see if issue still present and the window was working perfectly fine lol... Even though the indicator was now working, the code was still there and eventually it was non existent, but it stayed there and existent YES for some time before going to NO. Window was always there, except this morning.

Did you disconnect, repair, or change ANYTHING before each of the two faults disappeared?

Guess the Gremlins knew we were "ganging-up" on them and decided to go elsewhere.

Worst part of random, intermittent faults is they can return as unexpectedly as they left. I would suggest making notes of any water leaks, or unusual weather conditions to which the vehicle was subjected, water or temperature, as either can affect electrical contacts in connectors, wiring or PCB's. BTW, to properly see solder joint cracks in PCB's requires bright light & magnification, say 3x.

Glad to know all is well, at least for now. Please let us know if Gremlins return. If the issue WAS the FRM, it will probably fail the day after the warranty expires.

George

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Did you disconnect, repair, or change ANYTHING before each of the two faults disappeared?

Guess the Gremlins knew we were "ganging-up" on them and decided to go elsewhere.

Worst part of random, intermittent faults is they can return as unexpectedly as they left. I would suggest making notes of any water leaks, or unusual weather conditions to which the vehicle was subjected, water or temperature, as either can affect electrical contacts in connectors, wiring or PCB's. BTW, to properly see solder joint cracks in PCB's requires bright light & magnification, say 3x.

Glad to know all is well, at least for now. Please let us know if Gremlins return. If the issue WAS the FRM, it will probably fail the day after the warranty expires.

George

This morning no did not do anything for window one to go away. The indicator I had cleared yesterday I believe.

Only thing I can think that has been different is weather, we've started hitting around 10c as winter ends. I hope it won't get worse in summer.

As for warranty... I checked production date in TIS and it shows at March 22nd 2010

[mweisdorfer]

What did ISTA say about your error codes?

Unless the battery is really old and needs to be replaced, I'd rule that out. Alternator? Idk

Based on what you stated, I'd probably say your FRM module is shot. No way, I'd pay $450.00 for a new FRM 3.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

What did ISTA say about your error codes?

Unless the battery is really old and needs to be replaced, I'd rule that out. Alternator? Idk

Based on what you stated, I'd probably say your FRM module is shot. No way, I'd pay $450.00 for a new FRM 3.

What do you mean what ISTA said about codes? Like opening them and going into description? I think I did that but forgot.

Yeah it has to be FRM, I fail to see how battery could only cause 2 specefic issues like gb said to.

I called dealer and they said warranty good until June to, hopefully it craps out soon

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

What do you mean what ISTA said about codes? Like opening them and going into description? I think I did that but forgot.

Yeah it has to be FRM, I fail to see how battery could only cause 2 specefic issues like gb said to.

I called dealer and they said warranty good until June to, hopefully it craps out soon

Ista D might tell you what exactly the codes mean and how to fix it.

I think if you took your car to a dealership that you'd probably get a new FRM 3 module given your issues you have now.

Maybe hook up ISTA D and get a print out of your codes. You could show that to that to the service manager

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Ista D might tell you what exactly the codes mean and how to fix it.

I think if you took your car to a dealership that you'd probably get a new FRM 3 module given your issues you have now.

Maybe hook up ISTA D and get a print out of your codes. You could show that to that to the service manager

Yeah I did go through ISTA'S test plan, which is what I think the dealer would do as well, but not 100% sure. For the window code, it said to check if issue occurs using both window switches, if yes proceed to measure voltage reaching FRM, if voltage was OK to then replace FRM module.

If codes come back I will print out and visit the dealer even though issue won't be there. Hopefully they aren't to difficult to work with! I've only heard horror stories with dealers lol and I have zero experience dealing with warranty stuff.

Considering my car is out of warranty for everything else, I would like to not spend money when going there and they charge me for diagnostics and end up doing nothing ya know.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah I did go through ISTA'S test plan, which is what I think the dealer would do as well, but not 100% sure. For the window code, it said to check if issue occurs using both window switches, if yes proceed to measure voltage reaching FRM, if voltage was OK to then replace FRM module.

If codes come back I will print out and visit the dealer even though issue won't be there. Hopefully they aren't to difficult to work with! I've only heard horror stories with dealers lol and I have zero experience dealing with warranty stuff.

Considering my car is out of warranty for everything else, I would like to not spend money when going there and they charge me for diagnostics and end up doing nothing ya know.

Oh, I hear ya.

Probably best to just buy a used FRM 3 module on eBay and code it.

I bought a used FRM 2 module on eBay 15 months ago. It's been going strong.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Oh, I hear ya.

Probably best to just buy a used FRM 3 module on eBay and code it.

I bought a used FRM 2 module on eBay 15 months ago. It's been going strong.

Yeah used would be my option if warranty won't cover it. I just hate buying used parts.