[kenuel80]

Hi all! I have a 2007 328xi and the AC temperature is not regulating correctly. So, if I put it at 64 degrees it will start blowing a lot more warmer air (maybe 70). Before I would have to put it to 73 for it to start blowing warmer air. So I took it to Firestone and they said it needed refrigerant. They used that automatic machine to replace refrigerant and added a dye. Now my car is still the same with an added problem. It now takes about 1.5 min to turn on the compressor (it takes about 1.5min to start blowing cool air). My car has never done that before. It started after they refilled the system. I took it back to Firestone and they said everything is working properly which is BS since I know my car. I just left and didn't say anything caus they clearly dont know anything about the issue. In terms of cooling, it cools but not as cool as a year ago. But its good enough to be very comfortable. I didn't notice any difference in cooling after the refill. One last thing, after the engine is warm, the AC will start blowing cool air normally without the delay. That 1.5min delay happens when the car has been sitting for a long time. Any thoughts?

[e90yyc]

I don't mean to be a d*ck, but it will come as a surprise to precisely no one that Firestone's techs don't know what they're doing when it comes to BMW's. An AC recharge should be simple enough, but these cars are so finicky...

I'm curious whether they actually checked pressures or went straight to default based on your complaint it was not blowing cold.

Refrigerant must be filled based on weight, so it's imperative the system be evacuated completely prior to refill. They have the right machine for the job, so if they frigged up it was probably due to human error rather than a lack of proper equipment. This is only a guess, but it's possible the system was overfilled jussssst above the compressor cutoff threshold (system protection). There is both a lower and upper pressure limit. Might be worth asking Firestone how much refrigerant was filled, and then compare this to the sticker under your hood. I can't recall offhand what the correct amount is––best to check.

This is more of an aside, but if you aren't familiar, the compressors in our cars are variable displacement type. They run all the time, but vary the piston stroke depending on cooling requirements.


Okay, so moving onto the other problem: your vent temp isn't what you think it should be... Can you tell us whether the temp issue is a recent thing, or has this problem been there all along? If it's been there all along, it might be nothing more than hot vent ducting that is taking some time to cool down. When I leave my car outside on a hot day, the AC doesn't really feel cold for at least a couple minutes.

Assuming this isn't your issue and something is actually wrong, the best way to diagnose the problem is with software like INPA. You'll be able to read a whole slew of temperatures from various sensors, and see if any are reporting values that are out of acceptable range. I'd be curious what your cabin temp sensor is reading.

Last time I thought my AC wasn't as cold as it should be, I just used an accurate clip-on thermometer attached to center vent. Dealerships use these all the time. It turns out the temp was right where it should be.

Perhaps gbalthrop can offer some more specific advice on what to look for.

Hope some of this helps.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

...2007 328xi and the AC temperature is not regulating correctly. So, if I put it at 64 degrees it will start blowing a lot more warmer air (maybe 70)...It now takes about 1.5 min to turn on the compressor (it takes about 1.5min to start blowing cool air)...after the engine is warm, the AC will start blowing cool air normally without the delay. That 1.5min delay happens when the car has been sitting for a long time. Any thoughts?

Well, I'm about 15 miles due West of you, but unfortunately via the Wilson Bridge over the Potomac River, it becomes ~ 40 miles.

If you have a Windows 10 OS Laptop and want to spend some time indoors in A/C comfort (today & tomorrow heat index 110F+ OUTdoors ;-) downloading and installing INPA (FREE), and ordering a K+DCAN Cable to connect OBD II Socket of car to laptop ($45) I can post a "Tutorial" that will get you up & running with INPA. Another "Tutorial" will show you how to Connect to the IHKA (A/C) Module to read Fault Codes, AND to observe in Real Time everything from Refrigerant Pressure (High Side), Evaporator Temp, Vent Temperatures, and Flap Positions (to see if refrigerated air is being routed through the Heater core and re-heated). With that data, you can diagnose your A/C issue "better than Firestone."

If installing & learning INPA is NOT your "thing" then I would suggest finding an Independent BMW Specialist Shop that has INPA (or ISTA) and knows how to use it. Even if that shop does NOT have specialized A/C equipment, it can use the screens shown in the attached "IHKA Tutorial" to determine what the cause of the issue may be, and it is probably NOT refrigerant charge, as Firestone has so aptly demonstrated.

So you know just what INPA can show you (in addition to Fault Codes ;-), take a look at the example screens in the attached pdf. The Two MOST important screens for diagnosing your situation are (1) F5, F1 "AnalogPorts" and (2) F5, F4 Flap Positions. NOTE that English Translations have been Added to those screens (NOT the last 5 at "MAX" setting which are identical to previous 5 on 20C Auto Setting).

George

[kenuel80]

Hi George, thanks for the reply. Im interested in learning INPA. I can drive to your location and learn about if you have the time. I have a laptop with 10 OS and a cable to connect OBD II socket to usb. This delay issue with blowing hot air after starting the car started after the refill. I live near National Harbor. Thanks

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I don't mean to be a d*ck, but it will come as a surprise to precisely no one that Firestone's techs don't know what they're doing when it comes to BMW's. An AC recharge should be simple enough, but these cars are so finicky...

I'm curious whether they actually checked pressures or went straight to default based on your complaint it was not blowing cold.

Refrigerant must be filled based on weight, so it's imperative the system be evacuated completely prior to refill. They have the right machine for the job, so if they frigged up it was probably due to human error rather than a lack of proper equipment. This is only a guess, but it's possible the system was overfilled jussssst above the compressor cutoff threshold (system protection). There is both a lower and upper pressure limit. Might be worth asking Firestone how much refrigerant was filled, and then compare this to the sticker under your hood. I can't recall offhand what the correct amount is––best to check.

This is more of an aside, but if you aren't familiar, the compressors in our cars are variable displacement type. They run all the time, but vary the piston stroke depending on cooling requirements.


Okay, so moving onto the other problem: your vent temp isn't what you think it should be... Can you tell us whether the temp issue is a recent thing, or has this problem been there all along? If it's been there all along, it might be nothing more than hot vent ducting that is taking some time to cool down. When I leave my car outside on a hot day, the AC doesn't really feel cold for at least a couple minutes.

Assuming this isn't your issue and something is actually wrong, the best way to diagnose the problem is with software like INPA. You'll be able to read a whole slew of temperatures from various sensors, and see if any are reporting values that are out of acceptable range. I'd be curious what your cabin temp sensor is reading.

Last time I thought my AC wasn't as cold as it should be, I just used an accurate clip-on thermometer attached to center vent. Dealerships use these all the time. It turns out the temp was right where it should be.

Perhaps gbalthrop can offer some more specific advice on what to look for.

Hope some of this helps.

Supposedly all pressures where checked, they also checked for blockage, the machine did vacuum and refilled with refrigerant, they also added a dye to check for leaks. They also said that the temperature reading are within guidelines. The car not blowing cool air started after the refill. Ive had this car for 9 years and it has never behaved like that.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

Supposedly all pressures where checked, they also checked for blockage, the machine did vacuum and refilled with refrigerant, they also added a dye to check for leaks. They also said that the temperature reading are within guidelines. The car not blowing cool air started after the refill. Ive had this car for 9 years and it has never behaved like that.

Hmm! Did you have them recheck the car? Good to know though...

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Well, I'm about 15 miles due West of you, but unfortunately via the Wilson Bridge over the Potomac River, it becomes ~ 40 miles.

If you have a Windows 10 OS Laptop and want to spend some time indoors in A/C comfort (today & tomorrow heat index 110F+ OUTdoors ;-) downloading and installing INPA (FREE), and ordering a K+DCAN Cable to connect OBD II Socket of car to laptop ($45) I can post a "Tutorial" that will get you up & running with INPA. Another "Tutorial" will show you how to Connect to the IHKA (A/C) Module to read Fault Codes, AND to observe in Real Time everything from Refrigerant Pressure (High Side), Evaporator Temp, Vent Temperatures, and Flap Positions (to see if refrigerated air is being routed through the Heater core and re-heated). With that data, you can diagnose your A/C issue "better than Firestone."

If installing & learning INPA is NOT your "thing" then I would suggest finding an Independent BMW Specialist Shop that has INPA (or ISTA) and knows how to use it. Even if that shop does NOT have specialized A/C equipment, it can use the screens shown in the attached "IHKA Tutorial" to determine what the cause of the issue may be, and it is probably NOT refrigerant charge, as Firestone has so aptly demonstrated.

So you know just what INPA can show you (in addition to Fault Codes ;-), take a look at the example screens in the attached pdf. The Two MOST important screens for diagnosing your situation are (1) F5, F1 "AnalogPorts" and (2) F5, F4 Flap Positions. NOTE that English Translations have been Added to those screens (NOT the last 5 at "MAX" setting which are identical to previous 5 on 20C Auto Setting).

George

Hi George, I'm interested in learning INPA. I have a pc with OS 10 and the cable to connect OBD II to the laptop. If you have some time I can stop bye your place and chat about the software. You can email me at Hotmail with my user name. Thanks

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

Hmm! Did you have them recheck the car? Good to know though...

Yes, they didn't find anything wrong or didn't want to check. The ac tech guy wasn't really helpful.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

...2007 328xi and the AC temperature is not regulating correctly. So, if I put it at 64 degrees it will start blowing a lot more warmer air (maybe 70). Before I would have to put it to 73 for it to start blowing warmer air...[Took it to shop which added Refrigerant] ...It now takes about 1.5 min to turn on the compressor (it takes about 1.5min to start blowing cool air). My car has never done that before. It started after they refilled the system...after the engine is warm, the AC will start blowing cool air normally without the delay. That 1.5min delay happens when the car has been sitting for a long time...

Originally Posted by kenuel80

... I'm interested in learning INPA...I have a laptop with 10 OS and a cable to connect OBD II socket to usb...

I. Getting Started with INPA:
I'm NOT sure from your posts where you are in the process of:
1) Identifying a Web Site (Source) from which to download INPA;
2) Downloading "BMW Standard Tools" which contains INPA;
3) Installing BMW Standard Tools;
4) Entering Control Panel with K+DCAN cable attached to your laptop (but NOT the car) and selecting proper Port & Latency settings;
5) Connecting to the OBD II Socket of your vehicle and using INPA "Functional Jobs" to do the basic Identification of Electronic Control Modules in your vehicle and checking to see which modules have Fault Codes saved in Fault Memory.

I would suggest letting us know EXACTLY which of those steps you have done thus far, and what you believe is the next step from where you are at the moment, and someone can walk you through the process. It is NOT difficult, but it DOES require some thought and organization.

Once you do steps (1), (2) & (3) above, you can follow the directions & screens in the attached "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" (to do steps 4 & 5) which gives an overview of how to connect to your vehicle once you get INPA/BMW Standard Tools installed on your Laptop. That Tutorial explains how to Connect & use "Functional Jobs." Once you have the hardware & software working together properly, you want to understand the concepts about how to use F2 Identification and F4 Fault Memory All Modules in "Functional Jobs," and how to Save screens in JPG format for future reference or to attach to posts here.

II. AFTER Completing Phase ONE, Connect to IHKA Module to Diagnose:
Once you have been able to connect to those two Screens (F2 & F4 in Functional Jobs), and to save screens in JPG format to attach here, you will be ready to Connect to the IHKA Module and begin diagnosing your issue with the A/C. I will also provide TIS circuit diagram links or explain them as necessary so you can fully understand and test the system. Here is the TIS circuit diagram for IHKA Functions in the 2007 328xi built after 3/1/2007. There are slight differences for early 2007 models built BEFORE 3/1/2007, so let me know if yours is an early model:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

The "IHKA Module Tutorial" (pdf) was attached to post #3 above in this thread, and you can refer to that to see what type of information is available once you get to that final step. I would suggest approaching this (1) as an exercise to get INPA correctly installed and operational, (2) getting the overview of how to use Functional Jobs, AND THEN (3) Learning how to connect to the IHKA Module and view the TWO important screens identified in Post #3.

It's a PROCESS, but if you simply let us know where you are in the 5 steps identified at the beginning of this Reply, we can probably get you to where you need to be, both in terms of learning how to use INPA (a little at at time since it is such a complex and powerful tool -- and the REALLY helpful part of it is in GERMAN ;-). The good news is that the Analog Data readouts are in "Americanese numbers," so all you need is translation of the German Labels, and that is done for you in the IHKA Tutorial.

George

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I. Getting Started with INPA:
I'm NOT sure from your posts where you are in the process of:
1) Identifying a Web Site (Source) from which to download INPA;
2) Downloading "BMW Standard Tools" which contains INPA;
3) Installing BMW Standard Tools;
4) Entering Control Panel with K+DCAN cable attached to your laptop (but NOT the car) and selecting proper Port & Latency settings;
5) Connecting to the OBD II Socket of your vehicle and using INPA "Functional Jobs" to do the basic Identification of Electronic Control Modules in your vehicle and checking to see which modules have Fault Codes saved in Fault Memory.

I would suggest letting us know EXACTLY which of those steps you have done thus far, and what you believe is the next step from where you are at the moment, and someone can walk you through the process. It is NOT difficult, but it DOES require some thought and organization.

Once you do steps (1), (2) & (3) above, you can follow the directions & screens in the attached "INPA Tutorial Quickstart" (to do steps 4 & 5) which gives an overview of how to connect to your vehicle once you get INPA/BMW Standard Tools installed on your Laptop. That Tutorial explains how to Connect & use "Functional Jobs." Once you have the hardware & software working together properly, you want to understand the concepts about how to use F2 Identification and F4 Fault Memory All Modules in "Functional Jobs," and how to Save screens in JPG format for future reference or to attach to posts here.

II. AFTER Completing Phase ONE, Connect to IHKA Module to Diagnose:
Once you have been able to connect to those two Screens (F2 & F4 in Functional Jobs), and to save screens in JPG format to attach here, you will be ready to Connect to the IHKA Module and begin diagnosing your issue with the A/C. I will also provide TIS circuit diagram links or explain them as necessary so you can fully understand and test the system. Here is the TIS circuit diagram for IHKA Functions in the 2007 328xi built after 3/1/2007. There are slight differences for early 2007 models built BEFORE 3/1/2007, so let me know if yours is an early model:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

The "IHKA Module Tutorial" (pdf) was attached to post #3 above in this thread, and you can refer to that to see what type of information is available once you get to that final step. I would suggest approaching this (1) as an exercise to get INPA correctly installed and operational, (2) getting the overview of how to use Functional Jobs, AND THEN (3) Learning how to connect to the IHKA Module and view the TWO important screens identified in Post #3.

It's a PROCESS, but if you simply let us know where you are in the 5 steps identified at the beginning of this Reply, we can probably get you to where you need to be, both in terms of learning how to use INPA (a little at at time since it is such a complex and powerful tool -- and the REALLY helpful part of it is in GERMAN ;-). The good news is that the Analog Data readouts are in "Americanese numbers," so all you need is translation of the German Labels, and that is done for you in the IHKA Tutorial.

George

Thanks George! Very detailed explanation, my car was produced in 02/2007. I will let you guys know where Im at with the software and hardware. Today I will be soldering a switch on the OBD II cable. Supposedly its needed for software to function properly. I found different websites to download the software. Any reliable website that you have already tested? Im worried about downloading a virus into my pc. Thanks for your time!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

...my car was produced in 02/2007. I will let you guys know where Im at with the software and hardware...

Here's the TIS circuit diagram for your 2/2007 build Mo/Yr:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/hwh7J2T

I am still using an older version of INPA that is mostly in German except for a few menu translations. I have the BimmerGeeks K+DCAN Cable (no modification required), and understand that the BMW Standard Tools Software linked on their site has MORE German to English translation than any version currently available. Keep in mind that translation was NOT done by the German folk at BMW, but rather by a "committee" of volunteers (as I understand it ;-), so you occasionally get some humorous results like "Print Coolant" for Refrigerant Pressure.

Here are the BimmerGeeks links for Cable & Downloads. With most downloads, you have to first "UNZIP" or Uncompress the Compressed file. In the case of the MEGA link via the BimmerGeeks "Downloads" site, that file has a "7z" file extension, and type "7-Zip Compressed." Once you "unzip" the compressed file, you will see instructions on how to install. If you have any questions about the installation, post back.
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...eeks-pro-cable
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/downloads

George

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Here's the TIS circuit diagram for your 2/2007 build Mo/Yr:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/hwh7J2T

I am still using an older version of INPA that is mostly in German except for a few menu translations. I have the BimmerGeeks K+DCAN Cable (no modification required), and understand that the BMW Standard Tools Software linked on their site has MORE German to English translation than any version currently available. Keep in mind that translation was NOT done by the German folk at BMW, but rather by a "committee" of volunteers (as I understand it ;-), so you occasionally get some humorous results like "Print Coolant" for Refrigerant Pressure.

Here are the BimmerGeeks links for Cable & Downloads. With most downloads, you have to first "UNZIP" or Uncompress the Compressed file. In the case of the MEGA link via the BimmerGeeks "Downloads" site, that file has a "7z" file extension, and type "7-Zip Compressed." Once you "unzip" the compressed file, you will see instructions on how to install. If you have any questions about the installation, post back.
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...eeks-pro-cable
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/downloads

George

I got all the way to the part where I need to register the 3 files in the command prompt window but I get an error message:

"The module "comdlg32.ocx" was loaded but the call to DLLRegisterServer failed with error code 0x8002801c. For more information about this problem, search online using the error code as a search term."

I get the same error message for the other 2 modules: mscomctl.ocx and msflxgrd.ocx.

I have windows 10 64 bit OS and I pasted these modules in the Syswow64 location. Any thoughts?

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

I got all the way to the part where I need to register the 3 files in the command prompt window but I get an error message:

"The module "comdlg32.ocx" was loaded but the call to DLLRegisterServer failed with error code 0x8002801c. For more information about this problem, search online using the error code as a search term."

I get the same error message for the other 2 modules: mscomctl.ocx and msflxgrd.ocx.

I have windows 10 64 bit OS and I pasted these modules in the Syswow64 location. Any thoughts?

Ok, I was able to register successfully: This error message happens if you’re not executing the commands under elevated (administrator) command prompt. When you do not run the command prompt in administrator mode, the user account control will prevent you from making changes to the DLL (Dynamic Link Library) files even though your account is listed under administrator group. You will not have permission on library in registry. I would suggest you to execute register dll files under elevated command prompt.



Method 1: To run elevated command prompt



a. Click on Start; Click on All Programs.



b. Click on Accessories.



c. Right click on Command Prompt and run as administrator.



d. Now try registering the dll file and you should be able to do it.



Ok, I did it. I also set up the port to com-1 and latency timer to 1 and the cable is detected when I open INPA loader! So I guess I'm good to go. I will go over the tutorial that you sent. Thanks

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

Ok, I was able to register successfully: This error message happens if you’re not executing the commands under elevated (administrator) command prompt. When you do not run the command prompt in administrator mode, the user account control will prevent you from making changes to the DLL (Dynamic Link Library) files even though your account is listed under administrator group. You will not have permission on library in registry. I would suggest you to execute register dll files under elevated command prompt.



Method 1: To run elevated command prompt



a. Click on Start; Click on All Programs.



b. Click on Accessories.



c. Right click on Command Prompt and run as administrator.



d. Now try registering the dll file and you should be able to do it.



Ok, I did it. I also set up the port to com-1 and latency timer to 1 and the cable is detected when I open INPA loader! So I guess I'm good to go. I will go over the tutorial that you sent. Thanks

Ok, I did my first run with the system and I got temperature measurements:

When I dial in at 60F, reading output temperature is 50F (excellent)
dial at 64F, reading output temp. 82.4F
dial at 68F, reading output temp. 89.6F

So you see, my car is not regulating the air temperature correctly. It basically has hot or cold. That's it. Now, how can I troubleshoot the problem? Any thoughts

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

Ok, I did my first run with the system and I got temperature measurements:

When I dial in at 60F, reading output temperature is 50F (excellent)
dial at 64F, reading output temp. 82.4F
dial at 68F, reading output temp. 89.6F

So you see, my car is not regulating the air temperature correctly. It basically has hot or cold. That's it. Now, how can I troubleshoot the problem? Any thoughts

Also, no error codes stored in memory for the AC system. Any thoughts?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

...When I dial in at 60F, reading output temperature is 50F (excellent)
dial at 64F, reading output temp. 82.4F
dial at 68F, reading output temp. 89.6F

Congratulations on the successful Download & Install! I presume you were able to Connect to the IHKA Module and to view the Screens shown in the Tutorial. Before getting into specific "Next Steps", need to make sure we're on the same page as HOW the IHKA Module is SUPPOSED to regulate temperature. The following steps are with AUTO button pressed so LED is lit, and same for "Snowflake"/ Compressor Valve switch on right side of IHKA Control Panel.

Since you have 50F Ventilation Temp Sensor reading when BOTH Thermostats are set on 60F (coldest) then the refrigeration circuit IS working. The best gauge of HOW WELL the refrigeration circuit is working is the Evaporator Temp reading which appears just below the Ventilation Temp Readout. Those are 2nd & 3rd bar graphs from top on the Right Side of F5> F1 Analogports Readout at the Top of page 5 of the Tutorial. Please report the Evaporator (cooling coil) Temp reading as well as Ventilation Temp. Attaching a JPG file of the ScreenPrint is preferred (as described in "Quickstart Tutorial") so we can all play along at home.

When the "Snowflake" button LED is lit, the Compressor Valve should be activated and the Compressor should be pumping. That means the "Refrigerant Pressure" should be in the approximate range of 12 to 14 bar, or 174 to 203 PSI. It will be higher than that in HOT weather with ambient temp in the 90F+ range, and lower in colder weather. The Compressor/ Evaporator should be operating in cold, wet weather to defrost or remove moisture from the air to prevent windows from fogging. So the Evaporator is ALWAYS cooling and dehumidifying the air, even when heat is wanted, and the air from the Blower ALWAYS goes through the Evaporator/ Cooling coil.

The air temperature is regulated by the "Mixed Air Flaps" or "Blend Flaps." Those Flaps SHOULD be capable of any setting between fully closed to fully open. When flap position is "0", NO air that has been cooled/ dehumidified by passing through the Evaporator coil is directed through the Heater coil, but rather is directed out the dash vents. The Ventilation Temp Sensor is in the center of the dash facia, and at full-cold setting that is the Temperature of air from the evaporator which has NOT passed through the Heater coil.

As the Left/Driver & Right/Passenger Thermostats are dialed up to a higher temp from the "Full-cold" temp of 60F, the "Mixed Air Flap, Left" and "Mixed Air Flap, Right" (Bottom bar graphs in Left & Right Columns in "F5, F4, Flap Positions" as shown at bottom of page 6 of Tutorial, the Flap Position Readout should slowly and uniformly move from "0" to "100" if full heat is requested. Also, regardless of Thermostat settings, if you press the MAX button in the center of the Left/Driver Thermostat (LED Green) those two Flaps should go to 0. The two flaps should operate independently, being controlled by the separate settings of the Left & Right Thermostats.

It sounds like something is causing the Mixed Air Flaps, or at least ONE of them, to go from full cold (0) position to full hot (100), or nearly so. That suggests doing some Thermostat adjustment vs. Flap Position tests to see what is actually happening. BEFORE doing this test, set the Knurled knob in the center of dash (Stratification Flap Control) to Full-cold (Blue) position.

Also, before you begin, practice doing a ScreenPrint and saving it in Paint (or other photo editor) as a JPG file you can attach here. Attaching ScreenPrints of the two primary screens (F1 Analogports & F4 Flap Positions) is a lot easier for both you and others trying to follow what's happening than trying to write it down & key it in here.

So let's observe actual flap position on the F5, F4 INPA screen at 60F setting on BOTH thermostats, and then (A) move JUST DRIVER/ Left thermostat 1 degree F every 5 seconds, as you observe BOTH Left & Right Mixed Air Flap Readout. What we are looking for is any sudden, LARGE change in Flap Position.

(B) Repeat that test with Left Thermostat set on 60, and adjusting Right Thermostat ONLY, 1 degree F at a time as you monitor Flap Positions. (C) Then try increasing EACH Thermostat 1 degree at a time, and see if there is a LARGE increase at some point. Finally, (D) move the Stratification Flap Knob from Coldest (Blue) to warmest face temp (Red) as you watch the Left & Right Mixed Air Flaps, AND the Stratification Flap Readout, just above the Right Mixed Air Flap bar graph (in F4, Flap Positions).

To complete the testing, Change OUT of "AUTO" Mode (LED NOT lit) and with fan speed in an intermediate position, repeat the Thermostat position change as you monitor Flap Positions.

There are TWO things that can cause the air delivered from the vents to get warm rather suddenly:
1) Compressor Valve shuts down Compressor Pumping: Refrigerant Pressure drops and Evaporator Temp rises (both observed on F1 Analog Ports Screen);
2) Evaporator Temp remains approximately the same, but Mixed Air/ Stratification Flaps send cooled air through heater core before it is discharged from vents.

My guess is we are dealing with (2), Flap Positions, but we have INPA and can use it to make sure which one is happening.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[kenuel80]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Congratulations on the successful Download & Install! I presume you were able to Connect to the IHKA Module and to view the Screens shown in the Tutorial. Before getting into specific "Next Steps", need to make sure we're on the same page as HOW the IHKA Module is SUPPOSED to regulate temperature. The following steps are with AUTO button pressed so LED is lit, and same for "Snowflake"/ Compressor Valve switch on right side of IHKA Control Panel.

Since you have 50F Ventilation Temp Sensor reading when BOTH Thermostats are set on 60F (coldest) then the refrigeration circuit IS working. The best gauge of HOW WELL the refrigeration circuit is working is the Evaporator Temp reading which appears just below the Ventilation Temp Readout. Those are 2nd & 3rd bar graphs from top on the Right Side of F5> F1 Analogports Readout at the Top of page 5 of the Tutorial. Please report the Evaporator (cooling coil) Temp reading as well as Ventilation Temp. Attaching a JPG file of the ScreenPrint is preferred (as described in "Quickstart Tutorial") so we can all play along at home.

When the "Snowflake" button LED is lit, the Compressor Valve should be activated and the Compressor should be pumping. That means the "Refrigerant Pressure" should be in the approximate range of 12 to 14 bar, or 174 to 203 PSI. It will be higher than that in HOT weather with ambient temp in the 90F+ range, and lower in colder weather. The Compressor/ Evaporator should be operating in cold, wet weather to defrost or remove moisture from the air to prevent windows from fogging. So the Evaporator is ALWAYS cooling and dehumidifying the air, even when heat is wanted, and the air from the Blower ALWAYS goes through the Evaporator/ Cooling coil.

The air temperature is regulated by the "Mixed Air Flaps" or "Blend Flaps." Those Flaps SHOULD be capable of any setting between fully closed to fully open. When flap position is "0", NO air that has been cooled/ dehumidified by passing through the Evaporator coil is directed through the Heater coil, but rather is directed out the dash vents. The Ventilation Temp Sensor is in the center of the dash facia, and at full-cold setting that is the Temperature of air from the evaporator which has NOT passed through the Heater coil.

As the Left/Driver & Right/Passenger Thermostats are dialed up to a higher temp from the "Full-cold" temp of 60F, the "Mixed Air Flap, Left" and "Mixed Air Flap, Right" (Bottom bar graphs in Left & Right Columns in "F5, F4, Flap Positions" as shown at bottom of page 6 of Tutorial, the Flap Position Readout should slowly and uniformly move from "0" to "100" if full heat is requested. Also, regardless of Thermostat settings, if you press the MAX button in the center of the Left/Driver Thermostat (LED Green) those two Flaps should go to 0. The two flaps should operate independently, being controlled by the separate settings of the Left & Right Thermostats.

It sounds like something is causing the Mixed Air Flaps, or at least ONE of them, to go from full cold (0) position to full hot (100), or nearly so. That suggests doing some Thermostat adjustment vs. Flap Position tests to see what is actually happening. BEFORE doing this test, set the Knurled knob in the center of dash (Stratification Flap Control) to Full-cold (Blue) position.

Also, before you begin, practice doing a ScreenPrint and saving it in Paint (or other photo editor) as a JPG file you can attach here. Attaching ScreenPrints of the two primary screens (F1 Analogports & F4 Flap Positions) is a lot easier for both you and others trying to follow what's happening than trying to write it down & key it in here.

So let's observe actual flap position on the F5, F4 INPA screen at 60F setting on BOTH thermostats, and then (A) move JUST DRIVER/ Left thermostat 1 degree F every 5 seconds, as you observe BOTH Left & Right Mixed Air Flap Readout. What we are looking for is any sudden, LARGE change in Flap Position.

(B) Repeat that test with Left Thermostat set on 60, and adjusting Right Thermostat ONLY, 1 degree F at a time as you monitor Flap Positions. (C) Then try increasing EACH Thermostat 1 degree at a time, and see if there is a LARGE increase at some point. Finally, (D) move the Stratification Flap Knob from Coldest (Blue) to warmest face temp (Red) as you watch the Left & Right Mixed Air Flaps, AND the Stratification Flap Readout, just above the Right Mixed Air Flap bar graph (in F4, Flap Positions).

To complete the testing, Change OUT of "AUTO" Mode (LED NOT lit) and with fan speed in an intermediate position, repeat the Thermostat position change as you monitor Flap Positions.

There are TWO things that can cause the air delivered from the vents to get warm rather suddenly:
1) Compressor Valve shuts down Compressor Pumping: Refrigerant Pressure drops and Evaporator Temp rises (both observed on F1 Analog Ports Screen);
2) Evaporator Temp remains approximately the same, but Mixed Air/ Stratification Flaps send cooled air through heater core before it is discharged from vents.

My guess is we are dealing with (2), Flap Positions, but we have INPA and can use it to make sure which one is happening.

Please let us know what you find,
George

Great explanation! Ill be doing this latter today since I will be out. From what I noticed when changing the dial temp is definitely the flaps. I can hear a fast change in air flow as the flaps move. Like from a high pitch to a low pitch of air flow or viceversa. Are you an AC technician or an engineer? Just wondering because of your knowledge in all this. Thanks.

[kenuel80]

Attached are readings of the flap and temperature at different setting. It seems that the flaps are working properly.

[kenuel80]

[QUOTE=kenuel80;25077216]Attached are readings of the flap and temperature at different setting. It seems that the flaps are working properly.[/QI

I saved each file with the corresponding temperature setting but I guess you cant see that.

[gbalthrop]

[QUOTE=kenuel80;25077222]

Originally Posted by kenuel80

Attached are readings of the flap and temperature at different setting. It seems that the flaps are working properly. I saved each file with the corresponding temperature setting but I guess you cant see that.

The Bimmerfest Forum allows one to see the 'FileName' the poster gave it, but I am NOT aware of any way that can be done here -- ANYONE know the secret if there is one?

It just occurred to me that YOUR system may be working EXACTLY as intended. I've never seen a really detailed description of how this sytem is supposed to work, but in old Jaguar systems that WERE very well documented, there was a BIG difference between using "Auto Mode" and "Manual Mode" as Jaguar referenced them. In Auto Mode, the system would try to QUICKLY adjust to a new temperature setting by going to near FULL HEAT if you raised the thermostat setting several degrees F, and then quickly changing flap position and blower speed back to stable speed and vent discharge temp approximating desired cabin temp once "Interior Temp" was equal to the thermostat setting.

If the BMW system is designed similarly, when "Auto" is selected & LED lit, it would be expected to see BIG swings in Vent Discharge Temp when the Thermostat is changed more than a degree or two. I've NEVER tested or experimented with mine, being happy to just leave it ~ 71F at all times, and sometimes just slowing the Blower speed by using Blower buttons.

Comparing with the Jag systems, if you turned "Auto" mode OFF, or went to "Manual Mode", you essentially took the "Interior Temp Sensor" input out of the mix, and were regulating the temperature of the air discharge, resulting in less noticeable change in discharge air temp. If you look at your posted INPA screens, your 2nd Analog Screen shows the Coldest air discharge temps: 8C at the Center Dash Vent "Ventilation" Temp Sensor, and 9C at the Footwell Temp Sensor. I presume that setting was with BOTH Thermostats set on 60F?

I presume you had FOUR different Left Thermostat settings shown in first four screens attached, and then THREE different Right Thermostat settings in the next 3 screens attached. Those screens would suggest that if you INCREASE the thermostat set temp BEFORE the Interior Temp reaches the last temp setting, you get a LARGER amount of air sent through the Heater core on that side (Flap Position % gets larger, e.g. 25% to 46% to 61%).

I would NOT get concerned until I found that the Flap Position on the "dialed-up side" did NOT decrease to a smaller % of air directed through Heater when "Inside Temperature" became equal to Thermostat Setting. Setting BOTH Thermostats to the same temp and retesting would probably confirm the system does just that. For instance, try setting both thermostats to 68F which is 20C. When cabin temp (Inside Temperature or top-left Analog bar graph) reaches 20C, then increase BOTH thermostats to 75F (24C) and watch what R & L Mixed Air Flaps do as "Inside Temp" approaches 24C (requires shifting between F4 & F1 screens).

Many people are still used to the OLD concept of wanting FULL HEAT to warm a cold car as quickly as possible, or FULL COLD to cool a HOT car as quickly as possible, and don't pay much attention to what the system is doing when the cabin is as Hot or Cool as desired. Their primary concern is getting there FAST. In A/C weather, keeping Thermostats set on ~ 70F & "Auto Mode", and using MAX button when entering a HOT car to get cabin temp DOWN as quickly as possible, then turning MAX off, is probably the best strategy. Personally, I would rather NOT having the Blower running at max, and enjoy the Audio even if it takes a bit longer to cool down with the blower at a slower setting. YMMV/VolksStrokes

You are hereby officially appointed as "IHKA GURU" to see if the system operates as suggested above, and/or if there is a difference between what happens with Flap Positions depending upon whether the "Auto" LED is lit or NOT.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[mantis]

looking for help with similar issue

i get nice cold air while driving, but once i slow or stop, air gets warm and humid

had blower recall done as well as ac service and troubleshoot at dealer

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by mantis

looking for help with similar issue; i get nice cold air while driving, but once i slow or stop, air gets warm and humid; had blower recall done as well as ac service and troubleshoot at dealer

When your vehicle is moving at 30 MPH or more, air is flowing through the Condenser coil, mounted in front of the radiator, WITHOUT the Radiator Fan operating. When the vehicle is stationary, the Radiator Fan (E-fan) MUST run or the refrigerant pressure gets too high and the compressor valve is turned OFF, preventing compressor "Pumping" of refrigerant (R-134a).

When compressor valve shuts off compressor "Pumping", there is NO cooling by the Evaporator coil located in the center dash area. The Blower motor still operates, but the air temperature and humidity increases.

There are other possible causes of intermittent compressor operation, or changes in "Mixed Air Flap" Positions which can cause lack of cooling, but the FIRST thing to check is Radiator Fan operation with Compressor Valve activated (Green LED on "Snowflake" button lit). That button is on the right side of the A/C Control Panel.

On my 2007 328xi, when I do cold start at ~ 70F, with thermostats set to 65F, the Radiator Fan starts to run after 30 to 45 seconds, at ~ 20% to 40% of max speed, NOT howling, but you can see it run with hood open, and feel air draft above fan shroud.

So checkRadiator Fan operation at cold start with vehicle stationary and hood open, A/C on and Compressor Valve activated. Let us know what you find, and if the fan is running, but your are NOT getting cold air at idle, post back and answer the questions below.

BTW, there have been Several reported cases of Radiator Fan power supply being INCORRECTLY disconnected in the Blower Motor Harness replacement recall. The Red/Blue or Red/Violet power supply wires related to the Blower & E-fan CAN be confused by a tech, even though they are on different connectors on the firewall side of the JB (Junction Box) Fuse Panel, which must be removed as a part of the Recall Procedure. So if your current issue began AFTER that recall, and your E-Fan NEVER runs, that is a likely cause.

Obviously, Engine OVERHEATING if stationary more than several minutes will ALSO occur if your Radiator Fan is NOT working, so monitoring ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) signal as received by the DME (Engine Control Module) is quite helpful.

If you post back, please provide the following info, as diagnosing the refrigeration system (Compressor Pumping of R-134a refrigerant) require at a MINIUMUM, a Can Tap with a gauge ($15 to $20 Amazon), or preferably a Manifold Gauge Set, to measure both "High & Low Side" pressures ($25 to $35 Amazon). If you take an hour or two to understand how auto refrigeration systems work and invest $25 to $50 in basic equipment, you can save yourself a LOT of Time & Money.

Questions:
1) What are the Last-7 characters of your VIN? Needed to provide correct ISTA wiring diagrams.

2) Do you have ANY type of A/C Gauge, either a Can Tap with Gauge or Manifold Gauges?

3) Do you have any type of Scan Tool to read Fault Codes or view Live Data, and if so, the make & Model?

4) Do you have INPA or ISTA (BMW Diagnostic Software -- Free Download)?

5) Do you have a Windows 10 OS Laptop? If so, $45 BimmerGeeks K+DCAN cable is ONLY expense (other than several hours of your time ;-) to get CORRECT diagnosis of most any fault in your vehicle.

Don't feel like it's ALL JUST TOO MUCH.

We can walk you through how to use INPA to view Live Data of Refrigerant Pressure Sensor signal (High Side Refrigerant Pressure), Evaporator (Cooling Coil) Temperature, Radiator Fan Speed, along with Engine Temperature, Coolant Pump Speed and anything else which MAY be related.

You do NOT need INPA to solve a radiator fan issue, but it is the ULTIMATE tool to diagnose WHAT is happening in a system -- in your case, WHAT changes when your vehicle comes to a stop, causing the Compressor Valve to de-activate. It shows you "Live Data" on your computer screen, seated in the Driver Seat, all from simply plugging into the OBD II Socket.

George