[MattCopp]

First off I would like to thank everyone that posts here with all the knowledge they provide!!! I have a 2013 335is with 50k miles.

So driving home from work on the highway I get a blowout. Pull over to the shoulder when I call roadside assistance for a tow. While sitting idling on the phone I get a yellow overheating warning. I turn the car off and let it cool down while waiting for the tow truck. I hooked up my mhd and got a code for 2eff, something with electric fan self diagnosis. That was the only code I had. Didn't have time to inspect the car since it was on the way to a tire shop for 2 tires and an alignment.

Has anyone had the same code and it turned out to be the water pump? It's about 75 degrees today but I was in stop and go traffic on the highway. I'm thinking water pump and would like to order one now so I can have it this weekend but I have my doubts that it isn't the pump.

I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

*Update*

So I have the waterpump and thermostats on order from fcp euro. I have been driving my car and keeping a close eye on coolant temps. There seems to be no issue unless I'm idling for a while or in heavy traffic. Before I checked my fan to see if it was working and it was. Today in traffic the coolant slowly started creeping up and the yellow warning light came on. Temps were are 242 degrees. I pulled over and shut the car off to let it cool down. After 20 minutes turned the car on and limped my way home. When driving the coolant temps drop so first thing I want to do is check my fan again.

At home I let the car cool more and then start her up. Fan is not on so I turn the a/c to full blast. Fan kicks on for a second and then turns off. AC is blowing warm now. Every few seconds the fan will turn ever so slightly but never run.

So off to the forums to see what I can find. I have a 335is so I found the fan relay that is mounted to the p/s reservoir. I turn the car on and again no fan, turn the a/c on and nothing. I start inspecting the relay to look for loose connections and start wiggling them and then all the sudden the fan kicks on full speed. I wiggle them a little more and the fan turns off. So I am thinking I found my problem. Either the terminals are corroded and need to be cleaned or the relay is on it's way out. Btw I have 2 codes, 2EFF- electric fan self diagnosis and 2DED-power management closed circuit current violation.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Am I on the right track that it is corrosion or a bad relay?

[jeddo45]

Originally Posted by MattCopp

First off I would like to thank everyone that posts here with all the knowledge they provide!!! I have a 2013 335is with 50k miles.

So driving home from work on the highway I get a blowout. Pull over to the shoulder when I call roadside assistance for a tow. While sitting idling on the phone I get a yellow overheating warning. I turn the car off and let it cool down while waiting for the tow truck. I hooked up my mhd and got a code for 2eff, something with electric fan self diagnosis. That was the only code I had. Didn't have time to inspect the car since it was on the way to a tire shop for 2 tires and an alignment.

Has anyone had the same code and it turned out to be the water pump? It's about 75 degrees today but I was in stop and go traffic on the highway. I'm thinking water pump and would like to order one now so I can have it this weekend but I have my doubts that it isn't the pump.

I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

Usually with the water pump, it just goes so the car will overhear AND go into major limp mode. It could be your thermostat is going out or it could very well be the pump but it's just hard to tell. I say drive the car and if it starts to overheat quickly, then it's probably the pump.

[EB89]

Originally Posted by jeddo45

Usually with the water pump, it just goes so the car will overhear AND go into major limp mode. It could be your thermostat is going out or it could very well be the pump but it's just hard to tell. I say drive the car and if it starts to overheat quickly, then it's probably the pump.

When the water pump dies, it wont throw a CEL on the dash as a default action, nor will a dead waterpump reduce engine power at all until the car gets to a certain temperature.

See below



However chances are though if the OP got the yellow warning its gone and needs to be replaced.

[EB89]

One way to tell if your pump isnt working is to get the car up to temp and then squeeze a coolant pipe in the engine bay, if it has no pressure you know its not working.

You can also open the coolant reservoir and it wont be under pressure.

Also if you hear your electric fan spinning up really loudly, loader than normal.

All signs the pump is dead

[jt335i]

As what the others mentioned, if your water pump craps out, your car will go into yellow warning limp mode and then soon followed by the red warning light telling you to immediately pull over which that didn't happen in your case so have the cooling fan checked. It may be on its way out and most likely will need to be replaced.

[markhamr]

Originally Posted by EB89

One way to tell if your pump isnt working is to get the car up to temp and then squeeze a coolant pipe in the engine bay, if it has no pressure you know its not working.

You can also open the coolant reservoir and it wont be under pressure.

Also if you hear your electric fan spinning up really loudly, loader than normal.

All signs the pump is dead

I had a similar issue last week. Had gotten the yellow warning twice after short/slow drives. Finally, I got yellow again for the third time, pulled over, checked the coolant reservoir and it was pressurized (hot water spewed/sizzled out when opened slowly). I waited a few minutes, drove again slowly and got the red light so I had it towed home.

I had been assuming it was my water pump and have ordered a pump and thermostat kit and planned to do it this weekend with my friends lift. However I didn't think about the fact that my coolant was still pressurized. Any ideas what it might be if not the pump?

I have a Schwaben tool arriving tomorrow, but that likely won't leave me enough time to order and receive any parts before the weekend if it's not the pump.

P.S. Please tell me if this is a hijack and I will start a new thread. I thought it might relate well to OP's issue.

[banglenot]

EDIT NOTE: the N52 is the Pierburg OEM; the N54 uses a VDO OEM pump. A member was kind enough to reference this thread, noting that both the Pierburg and the VDO have a significant failure rate: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807187

I've replaced two of these, on N52 E60 and a N52 E90. We've been discussing these pumps for years over on the board I frequent. Here's what we found on the N52, Pierburg OEM pump. Again, see the thread referenced above for a broader population.

Warnings:
-- Does not trigger a SES light prior to fail.
-- Warning codes, if any, are most often related to differences in expected and actual pump speed.
-- Some have found that the SES warning is suppressed in the software. So, it is not a coding option, requiring rewriting software to trigger an SES. We're pretty much stuck with little if any warning.
-- Pretty much the only way to get a code warning, if it occurs, it to regularly read the ECU codes and look for the pump speed codes.
--The other warning of impending failure is a random increase in fan speed to maximum (you'll know; it sounds like a jet engine). This is the one most owners get.

Failure:
--The yellow, then almost immediate red "stop engine".
--Most recommend you stop the engine ASAP, and don't drive it at all until fixed. Flatbed it to a workshop. Any driving increases the risk of head gasket damage.
-- Some fail earlier than 60K; some never fail. The N52 was the first engine to use it in the US, and likely early installs had design weaknesses. Pierburg supposedly came out with a redesign that reduced the failure rate. I've not seen any info that correlates failures to years or models; just that earlier years fail more often. Mileage? Design? Who knows.

Testing and replacement:
-- The pump bleeding procedure is a way to see if the pump is working. Let is cool, start the bleed procedure, carefully open the expansion tank cap. If it's working, you'll see it flow. Assuming it is, press the start button with your foot off the pedal and the bleed procedure should stop.
-- However, if it fails once, the best thing to do is replace it (unless you like being stranded). OEM on the N52 is Pierburg. Full replacement kit (pump, thermostat, fluid) can be gotten for ~$370 from known parts houses,if you look. OEM on the N54 is VDO, which is about $460 for the kit.
-- Fakes have been identified. Pierburg testing found they fail in 1/2 the mileage of Pierburgs. They don't seem to be ripping off the Pierburg logo; they just say it's compatible. Avoid these, avoid ebay. Stick to places with a rep: FCP Euro, Autohaus, OEMbimmerparts and so on. While VDO hasn't flagged a knockoff, best advice is use known BMW suppliers for any parts.

Repair:
--Obviously, requires a full coolant drain to do.
--Not a killer DIY on RWD; a bit of a bitch on AWD's. Can be done on ramps. Take off the passenger wheel and liner for better access.
--DIY on the N52 for less than $400. Dealer's usually charge about $1-1.2K. Indys $800-1K. DIY on the N54 for less than $500.

Newtis for most models:
--https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/ search for coolant pump or pump.

Hope all this helps.

[adam_c]

I noticed when I run my AC the fans are somewhat louder/more noticeable than my other vehicles, any indication this is a wearing out pump?

[banglenot]

Originally Posted by EB89

When the water pump dies, it wont throw a CEL on the dash as a default action, nor will a dead waterpump reduce engine power at all until the car gets to a certain temperature.

See below



However chances are though if the OP got the yellow warning its gone and needs to be replaced.

Great chart. Is this for the N52, the N54 or both?

[banglenot]

Originally Posted by adam_c

I noticed when I run my AC the fans are somewhat louder/more noticeable than my other vehicles, any indication this is a wearing out pump?

Switching on my AC here in FL will spin up the fan for a brief moment, then it settles back down as the pulse of heat is dissipated in the system. The pump fan sound is very loud -- pretty distinctive.

Other may hear it differently, but over the years it's a different sound for me.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by EB89

One way to tell if your pump isnt working is to get the car up to temp and then squeeze a coolant pipe in the engine bay, if it has no pressure you know its not working.

You can also open the coolant reservoir and it wont be under pressure.

Also if you hear your electric fan spinning up really loudly, loader than normal.

All signs the pump is dead

the system will still be pressurized. It gets the pressure from the coolant expanding as it heats up, not the pump.

[markhamr]

Thanks for the responses, nsjames, banglenot, and EB89!

I have a few more questions:

1. Starting the car - Is it ok to drive it onto/off a flatbed trailer? I'm taking it to a friends house with a hoist to do the DIY. Keep in mind that I've already gotten the red warning light. If it's ok, will I need to clear the error code to get the car to drive?

2. Quick clips - from reading the DIYs and posts regarding the water pump replacement, I had a hard time finding a direct/decisive explanation on how to work these. Any advice or posts/directions you can point me to?

3. Routine maintenance - anything else I should do at the same time?

[adam_c]

As long as the car has sat for awhile you should be fine, it won't reach operating temperature or over that for a few minutes

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by markhamr

Thanks for the responses, nsjames, banglenot, and EB89!

I have a few more questions:

1. Starting the car - Is it ok to drive it onto/off a flatbed trailer? I'm taking it to a friends house with a hoist to do the DIY. Keep in mind that I've already gotten the red warning light. If it's ok, will I need to clear the error code to get the car to drive?


2. Quick clips - from reading the DIYs and posts regarding the water pump replacement, I had a hard time finding a direct/decisive explanation on how to work these. Any advice or posts/directions you can point me to?

3. Routine maintenance - anything else I should do at the same time?

1: Yes. Just don't dawdle. The light is temp based, so it will start and run fine until it gets hot.

2: Pelican Parts has an excellent DIY section.

3: Thermostat should get done at the same time unless you want to drain it sooner rather than later. Use the approved coolant, because magnesium block, Maybe hoses and such if they look rough.

edit:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...eplacement.htm

and for the love of all that's holy, do not use anything other than a torx socket/wrench on the bolts. You will have a bad time. If you don't have them, buy them. Do not screw around with putting a metric or SAE 12 point on it.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by nsjames

and for the love of all that's holy, do not use anything other than a torx socket/wrench on the bolts. You will have a bad time.

.

[BimmerNugget]

Hey to save you some money and the trouble of replacing the waterpump & thermostat. Do me a favor, go outside start the car and turn the AC on. Keep the car in park, do not drive it. Is the AC cold even if car is stationary?

I went through a similar ordeal and I thought for sure it was the water pump. Turns out my water pump was good, it was my radiator fan that was busted. You can test the fan by running the AC while parked. The fan should kick on 100% of the time. If fan is off while AC is on, you won't have cold air.

[MattCopp]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!!!

So I got the car back from the shop. No issues on the drive home. I monitored coolant temps on my way. When I got home the first think I checked was the fan.

When I turn the ac on the fan turns on so I don't think that's the issue. The ac does blow cold also. Next I checked the pump by doing the bleed procedure which it worked also. The pump turned on and began circulating coolant sp I assume that is good also???

Not really sure what else to do. I think I'm going to take the car for a drive and monitor coolant temps and see if the problem happens again???

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!!!

[banglenot]

So does this mean you didn't change the pump?

Your choice, of course, if you didn't. Edit: Read this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807187 indicating a high failure rate on the VDO as well as the Pierburg.

Suggest you regularly check codes to see if there's any pump speed codes. Any very loud fan issues. Keep an eye on it.

BTW, when you looked at it, did you see if it had "BMW" on it and was corroded about the same as the rest of the metal it was next to? Just curious if it was original.

NOTE: I edited my repair post above to include comments on the N54 engine with the VDO OEM pump.

[nsjames]

it's possible the pump has a failure that is intermittent.

at some point it is likely to fail, it's already given you a warning.

did you read the codes? If you've got a pump sped code, for sure the pump is failing.

[MattCopp]

I didn't replace it yet but will be. I didn't get any codes for the pump just 2eff (electric fan self diagnosis) which is for the fan. I'm at 50k miles so I know the water pump needs to be changed. I haven't gotten under the car yet to look at the pump but will after work today to see if original.

[EB89]

Originally Posted by nsjames

the system will still be pressurized. It gets the pressure from the coolant expanding as it heats up, not the pump.

I was speaking from experience, when my pump died, It was not under pressure and I could open the reservoir cap without any his or sizzle or death spray in my face.

I understand the pressure comes from the coolant getting hot, and niot from the pump creating pressure as a function.

Also im not saying every-time a pump dies you will see this symptom, not at all, im sure most of the time it stays pressurised.

I probably had a bad leak also.

[EB89]

Originally Posted by markhamr

Thanks for the responses, nsjames, banglenot, and EB89!

I have a few more questions:

1. Starting the car - Is it ok to drive it onto/off a flatbed trailer? I'm taking it to a friends house with a hoist to do the DIY. Keep in mind that I've already gotten the red warning light. If it's ok, will I need to clear the error code to get the car to drive?

2. Quick clips - from reading the DIYs and posts regarding the water pump replacement, I had a hard time finding a direct/decisive explanation on how to work these. Any advice or posts/directions you can point me to?

3. Routine maintenance - anything else I should do at the same time?

1. Yes, it takes minutes for the coolant and engine to get up to temp, starting it and driving it slowly onto a truck for 60 seconds wont break it.

2. Cant help

3. Do the pump, thermostat, the U shaped pipe that joins the two and any other pipes you will be near.